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Sanya12364 Posts
On November 04 2009 08:49 Athos wrote: After watching the match between Kasparov and the world I am feeling slightly pessimistic about our chances. That was an amazing game.
Nc6-a5 To be fair, the World team had a bunch of big egos that distracted from their play. As long as we don't flame each other crazily, we should be able to stay focused on the analysis.
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On November 04 2009 08:49 Athos wrote: After watching the match between Kasparov and the world I am feeling slightly pessimistic about our chances. That was an amazing game.
Democracy doesn't work :p for chess, at least.
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It also REALLY didnt help that they played a sicilian, that Kasparov is an expert in, yet none of the World Team were...makes perfect sense right?
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Sanya12364 Posts
Kasparov avoided the main line though because he wanted to use his prepared analysis during serious matches instead. It would have been interesting to see a Najdorf Defense.
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On November 04 2009 08:49 Athos wrote: After watching the match between Kasparov and the world I am feeling slightly pessimistic about our chances. That was an amazing game.
Nc6-a5 I'm not Kasparov, and I guess you are much more solid opponent than random crowd of people from all over the world. Anyway, new move is up, let's vote for a response. BTW, nice consensus on your side!
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+ Show Spoiler +
I'm really liking trading off the bishops at this point to expose his king alittle more and open up the board for our rooks/queen. Give them open files and such so something like
11..Bxg2 12. Kxg2 d5 13. cxd5 exd5
makes it alot easier to start mounting an attack on his kingside
probably vote after i think it over more and see what others have to say
Yeah I'll still vote Bxg2
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VERY IMPORTANT analysis in spoilers. Please everyone take a moment to look it over for me, I do not want to have made a mistake. Respond with your thoughts on it if you will.+ Show Spoiler +Basically, I am at a crossroads in this position. If we exchange bishops ourselves, we more or less transpose to line a) of my 9...Nc6 analysis, except that instead of a move like Nb3, e4 or Ba3, white will instead of played Kxg2 and we still have a knight pressuring the c4 pawn.
Is this good?
Lets think:
11...Bxg2 12. Kxg2 c5! 13. e4 cxd4 14. cxd4 Qc7 15. Ba3 Nc6 16. Bb2 gives in my opinion, a small advantage to black with best play.
taking that as the mainline, we could also play a) 12...Qc8 13. e4 c5 14. Qc2 e5 15. Bb2 Nc6 16. Nf3 Qa6 17. dxc5 dxc5 18. Nd2 Rad8 19. Rfd1 Ne8 and white looks lost b) 12...d5 13. cxd5 Qxd5+ 14. Kg1 c5 15. e3 Rac8 16. Ba3 Rcd8 with a small advantage to black
So now we know that 11...Bxg2 is a great move, but can we do better?
I cannot see any improvements for us over 11...Bxg2 that will not transpose to an inferior version of the above lines.
Please someone check my analysis, this is an important move!
11...Bxg2 for now, subject to change.
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+ Show Spoiler +
Your er first line seems a bit better for white actually
it would come out okay if you instead played something like
11...Bxg2 12. Kxg2 c5! 13. e4 cxd4 14. cxd4 Qc7 15. Ba3 Rfe8 16.Qe2 But I think even better in this line might be
11...Bxg2 12. Kxg2 c5! 13. e4 Re8! 14. Qe2 Qc7 15. Rd1 cxd4 16. cxd4
Which puts black in quite a good position, the best out of any of the lines mentioned so far I think. So many pawn weakness have opened up and the c file is under heavy assault. His king is going to be in immediate danger here as well.
But maybe you see more in that first line you mentioned afterwards that I'm missing?
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well, I would envision my first line continuing: + Show Spoiler +16...e5! 17. d5 Na5 and Black has a little pull. Its nothing crazy, but that backwards c-pawn sure looks tasty, and we could also bring a knight to c5 via d7. White has little to no counter-play - we might not win but we should not lose either. Perhaps something like 18. Rc1 Nd7 19. f4 f6 20. Kg1 Qc5+ 21. Rf2 exf4 22. gxf4 f5 and white's king comes under attack.
your second line is really good I agree. Im still drawn to my line a) though, that looks crushing.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On November 04 2009 20:11 jfazz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Basically, I am at a crossroads in this position. If we exchange bishops ourselves, we more or less transpose to line a) of my 9...Nc6 analysis, except that instead of a move like Nb3, e4 or Ba3, white will instead of played Kxg2 and we still have a knight pressuring the c4 pawn.
Is this good?
Lets think:
11...Bxg2 12. Kxg2 c5! 13. e4 cxd4 14. cxd4 Qc7 15. Ba3 Nc6 16. Bb2 gives in my opinion, a small advantage to black with best play.
taking that as the mainline, we could also play a) 12...Qc8 13. e4 c5 14. Qc2 e5 15. Bb2 Nc6 16. Nf3 Qa6 17. dxc5 dxc5 18. Nd2 Rad8 19. Rfd1 Ne8 and white looks lost b) 12...d5 13. cxd5 Qxd5+ 14. Kg1 c5 15. e3 Rac8 16. Ba3 Rcd8 with a small advantage to black
So now we know that 11...Bxg2 is a great move, but can we do better?
I cannot see any improvements for us over 11...Bxg2 that will not transpose to an inferior version of the above lines.
Please someone check my analysis, this is an important move!
+ Show Spoiler + Basically I have no problems with Bxg2. As for the succession lines, I'd put the rooks in position before I open up the lines for an attack and wouldn't make the pawn exchanges on d4.
12 Kxg2 c5 13 e4 Rc8 we go into some complicated maneuvering after that but black has the small advantage. White d5 is coming soon.
12 Kxg2 .Qc8 13. e4 c5 14. Ba3 Re8 15. Qc2 that give a similar situation to you mainline without pawn exchanges and with black's Queen in slightly inferior position. Good thing about Queen on c8 is that without the pawn exchanges it can go to a6 to grab that pawn. White has to play d5 soon or lose in this line. That will shield the weak pawn on d6
12. Kxg2 d5 13. cxd5 Qxd5+ f3 f3 looks like the best response from white and now can play e4.
All the pawn exchanges look bad for which ever side that forced it.
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Just a question, most likely for Vekzel.
Can I discuss this game and the moves with you (the team), even if I'm not signed up for the team? I should note that I'm certain some of the players already on the team are far better than I.
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On November 04 2009 21:38 hefty wrote: Just a question, most likely for Vekzel.
Can I discuss this game and the moves with you (the team), even if I'm not signed up for the team? I should note that I'm certain some of the players already on the team are far better than I. Yes you can. On one condition: put your analysis in spoilers!
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I vote for: 11...Bxg2 + Show Spoiler +At the moment the night on a5 is great and makes c5 seem a natural progression, but I'm busy giving thought as to when we can mobilize it a bit since the rook on the b rank is annoyingly limiting. I don't like the thought that if he clears up the board a bit his bishop might come to life. Luckily, he can only do that with a pawn sacrifice at the moment, but he will have better options once he moves to e4.
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Sanya12364 Posts
Bxg2. + Show Spoiler + It's a trade of the good b7 bishop for the bishop guarding the light squares around the king. Trading it this way, black could gain a tempo when the Queen goes on the long diagonal. Also keeping the knight on a5 locks white's d2 knight for now and that will mean white's dark square bishop will not have much place to go.
My plan is to build up some tension in the center by play c5 now, and building up tension by placing rooks on e8 and c8. White will have to respond to the threats of discovered attacks on his pawns.
If white locks the pawn structure with d5, then we should be able to manuveur the black knights to our advantage. Reroute the C rook to e7 and then open up the E file with exd5.
Overall we have a slight advantage but with perfect play, it'll be drawish.
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agree , Bxg2 is a good move
+ Show Spoiler +exposes his king and gives us slightly more place to manouver in the middle
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Bxg2
+ Show Spoiler +I just can't find a better move here. If this was a game of blizz, I would take the piece without hesitating at all.
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+ Show Spoiler +jfazz: In the a-line, what of 14 Qc2 e5 15 d5 ? That seems like it leaves the game equal to me. Or even if 14 Qc2 e5 15 Bb2 Nc6 16 d5 seems more likely to me. I guess I'm probably just missing something, though.
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I am not playing the current game, but on vekzel's post of others offering analysis, I'd like to offer some (even if not the best or most common).
+ Show Spoiler +I know alot of you are pushing the Bxg2, but what about 11. ...d5! 12. cxd5 Bxd5 13. Bxd5 Nxd5 means he has to respond by Qc2, Bb2, or Ne4 (which you could ...f5 to attack the knight, making the fork still happen) to protect the fork from the Nxc3.
If he does 12. c5 respond with ...Ne4 to make him defend the pawn (with 13. Nxe4 dxe4), or trade his last knight with a strong black pawn on e4. Can follow up with small pawn trades of 14. cxb3 cxb3 15. f3 possible, but you could trade pawns there or counter with 15. ...f5 16. fxe4 fxe4 17. rxf8 qxf8 for some even trades and weakening his king side while bringing your queen to an open file.
While i think Bxg2 is a good move, I think ...d5 could be a nice move as well.
edit: changed certain move numbers as i missed counted
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