EPTIt's clear why the practice houses of SC2 aren't as tough or gruelling as their BW counterparts. The game is, like many people have mentioned, unbearably difficult to play or practise for long periods of time. The reason is simply because it is NOT AS ENJOYABLE.
The Elephant in the Room - Page 85
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_awake_
196 Posts
It's clear why the practice houses of SC2 aren't as tough or gruelling as their BW counterparts. The game is, like many people have mentioned, unbearably difficult to play or practise for long periods of time. The reason is simply because it is NOT AS ENJOYABLE. | ||
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Imbu
United States903 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:11 jacobmarlow wrote: Anyone who agrees with the article is brood war biased. I agree with Artosis 100% in saying the article is ignorant and comes to over simplified conclusions. Saying a brood war player is superior to a starcraft player simply becuase broodwar requires more mechanics is like saying, someone who could operate windows 95 at a high level would surpass anyones ability to use windows 7. They are two different games plain and simple. It's not that the games are necessarily two completely different things, let's just look at the most basic part of any StarCraft, your ability to macro. If we look at just that trait, one of the cleanest thing of ANY high level BW professional has been their insane ability to keep their money low at all times until max. We're not saying below 400 minerals, we're talking about each time they go to build a unit/building/upgrade, they have just enough to begin it. Currently, in StarCraft II, we're just missing the sheer amount of practice that it takes to get to that level. If playing 30-40 games is considered a lot by the current standards, then the practice is indeed a lot lower than it used to be in BW, where there was an incident where Flash once practiced until his hand started bleeding (I believe it was Flash, or maybe Jaedong..). All this means is that in the future, when people start training for games even more and SCII begins starts developing, SCII progammers will start to match the current BW progammers. | ||
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Felony
United States131 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:02 hydraden wrote: If foreigners never reach into Code S for a year or two, do you still believe there will be this much foreigner audience online? Also, internet users usually generate much less revenue to the company, internet users and live audience are not equal. And another thing, how can you have only 10 people in the live audience and expect people to call it as a sports? 10 people in the audience is a little under-exaggerated no? Yes I believe that the foreign scene for SC2 will continue to grow even if foreigners don't do well in Korea. With the success of the tournaments not held in Korea how could you suggest otherwise? Korea may have been the Mecca for BW, but lets not sanctify Korea as a holy place for SC2 just yet. | ||
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CutieBK
Sweden227 Posts
I may be wrong in this, but I've always felt like the biggest difference from BW to SC2 is the fact that SC2 leaves alot of the more tedious mechanics out. When watching BW on streams, I am always in awe of the amount of multitasking required to keep track of workers who do not rally automatically to mineral nodes and the ability to micro units with insanely stupid AI(like the dragoon for instance). In SC2 most of these things take care of themself. Having less to work around in terms of mechanics and a slightly(or major, I haven't played BW competatively so I wouldn't know) reduced requirment to multitask in the later stages perhaps opens up room for other types of creativity and talent within the game. I don't think anyone in their right mind is arguing that the competative scene in SC2 is anywhere near the level of tactical brilliance you can see in the BW games, but it seems to me you are missing a rather important point in your reasoning. If the bar raises, so will the players practicing regimens do too. The game is so new at the moment and it seems like every week someone does something which totally changes the way the game is concieved. There is less uniformity now and as such the game will shift and be less super-amazing-gosu, however that in itself is a reason to keep watching. Like you said, the ones who practice the most and have the talent will be the ones to rise to fame. But as the bar raises I think we may be surprised to find how many of the new and at the moment inferior players will be able to step up to the plate and kick some serious ass. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
oh god blind-rawr, I saw you at 6k posts and still a ghost and I freaked out a bit that I was going to stay a ghost for 3k more posts lol | ||
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Sumsi
Germany593 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:11 jacobmarlow wrote: Saying a brood war player is superior to a starcraft player simply becuase broodwar requires more mechanics is like saying, someone who could operate windows 95 at a high level would surpass anyones ability to use windows 7. They are two different games plain and simple. I don't think it's just the mechanics which separate top tier BW pros from the rest. It's also abilities like quick decision making, multitasking, extraordinary micro etc. | ||
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Tarot
Canada440 Posts
I feel exactly the same way about the scene. Ever since I watched Zergbong (Nestea) vs Skyhigh, where Zergbong ran in half a dozen lurkers and a bunch of lings into 4 bunkers just to lose all of them and kill nothing, I haven't been able to take the SC2 scene seriously. Now this guy is top Zerg in the world? Come on. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:19 CutieBK wrote: In SC2 most of these things take care of themself. Having less to work around in terms of mechanics and a slightly(or major, I haven't played BW competatively so I wouldn't know) reduced requirment to multitask in the later stages perhaps opens up room for other types of creativity and talent within the game. And yet even with this lowered mechanic workload, people still have problems with their mechanics. I think that's what the OP is getting at; if things go on the way they are going on now, things will not end well for current "SC2 pros" | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:12 mmdmmd wrote: But as the OP stated, there is a worrying trend that some of the current top sc2 players are practising less and less. Yes because imagine if the players have anything resembling a life next to playing Starcraft all day :O That would just be unacceptable... | ||
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JediGamer
United States656 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:16 HaFnium wrote: BW for life! Thanks for summarizing the entire article for people that haven't read it yet. Until one of the top BW pro's switches, this entire thread is nothing but speculation and its ruining the fragile peace between BW and SC2 on the forums  . How about some respect for both sides? Calling an entire competition a farce is disrespectful, both to people that watch it and people that actually play in it. As an SC2 pro, you have to actually win to make money off it, and while it is easier to reach the top in SC2 at the moment, that doesn't take anything away from people like MVP, Nestea, Idra, Huk, who have won tournaments against other people that pretty much dedicate their working life to this. | ||
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War Horse
United States247 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:17 Istvan wrote: Code S is equivalent in some sense to UEFA champions league, because they deal with the best of the best. Inter Milan, AC Milan, Man Utd, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Porto, Arsenal, Liverpool and Bayern Munich are had pretty legit shots at the title for the past decade. That's more than just a few teams IMO. Dominance does not increase interest. Rivalry increases interest. What on earth are you saying with your point C? For example, I cannot conceive of any meaning behind "Builds like those are much more percentage based." Just ignore the gold leaguer who thinks he could take a game off Idra by cannon rushing, its clear he has a very simplistic understanding of not only SC but sports in general (NFL controlled by dominant teams? It has some of the best parity of any sports league!) | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50607 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:19 chaoser wrote: oh god blind-rawr, I saw you at 6k posts and still a ghost and I freaked out a bit that I was going to stay a ghost for 3k more posts lol don't worry when you hit 5k you'll become a wraith,I haven't been here long enough to have my icon changed,but I continue to post anyway. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:21 Logros wrote: Yes because imagine if the players have anything resembling a life next to playing Starcraft all day :O That would just be unacceptable... You can have a life and still have an 8-hour practice regiment. That's called a nine-to-five | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:23 chaoser wrote: You can have a life and still have an 8-hour practice regiment. That's called a nine-to-five A lot of SC2 pros do play 8 hours a day. This doesn't seem to be enough for the OP though. He wants the full blown, constrictive, lonely experience that is the BW practice houses for every SC2 player. | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
The one point in your article that does kind of bum me out is the practice regimen of SC2 pros. Whether it's KR, NA, or EU, there doesn't seem to be any structure or urgency in practice. Putting in stringent practice hours is what differentiates good and bad, so it's really disappointing that most SC2 pros have taken an Allen Iverson approach to practice. | ||
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jambOng
United States86 Posts
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
Anyone who agrees with the article is brood war biased. I agree with Artosis 100% in saying the article is ignorant and comes to over simplified conclusions. Saying a brood war player is superior to a starcraft player simply becuase broodwar requires more mechanics is like saying, someone who could operate windows 95 at a high level would surpass anyones ability to use windows 7. They are two different games plain and simple. | ||
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:18 orz.fail wrote: Saying a brood war player is superior to a starcraft player simply becuase broodwar requires more mechanics is like saying, someone who could operate windows 95 at a high level would surpass anyones ability to use windows 7. They are two different games plain and simple. Yea but if the Windows 7 user could not operate Windows 95 even close to the level of the first person, then it should be assumed that the Windows 95 user could also operate Windows 7 at a higher level than the latter person. What a wierd analogy though lol O.o | ||
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gn0m
Sweden302 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:20 Tarot wrote: Haha. I feel exactly the same way about the scene. Ever since I watched Zergbong (Nestea) vs Skyhigh, where Zergbong ran in half a dozen lurkers and a bunch of lings into 4 bunkers just to lose all of them and kill nothing, I haven't been able to take the SC2 scene seriously. Now this guy is top Zerg in the world? Come on. I think that anyone who watched Choleras commentaries of Zergbong is amazed/horrified by his achievements in SC2  | ||
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