EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 87
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SlaverR
Germany87 Posts
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jacobmarlow
Canada100 Posts
I just looked at your posts and you are once again someone who is clearly not an avid fan of SC2. You have over a thousand posts none of which are Sc2 related, so why do you have to come on this thread to shit on SC2 pros when you clearly do not know follow the game much yourself? | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51716 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:31 Mailing wrote: WHO is doing this? This thread has 90~ pages because the OP is basically insinuating that 1. Our SC2 competition is a joke because the players are baddies 2. It will always be a joke because BW has more money and fame, no reason for the "real" players to switch to SC2 3. I don't even want to watch SC2 because the players are not practicing 16 hours a day. 1.undeniably true 2.the first half was harsh bu need ed to be said and yes there is no reason for the cream of the crop to switch. 3.a total misunderstanding. | ||
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Imbu
United States903 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:27 Maliris wrote: This article is terribly ignorant. Just throwing up a bunch of stats with no context whatsoever. What about NaDa and Julyzerg? Why are they not dominating everyone and everything effortlessly? Modern BW pro's rely on their exceptional macro and mechanics which are diluted in SC2, they would probably be an MVP/Nestea level player, but they won't just destroy everyone. Sad that a BW elitist felt like writing something like this on TL... i agree with Doa, Artosis, and the hundreds of other people that think this is a load of shit Please understand that NaDa and Julyzerg switched at the end of their BW careers. Julyzerg in 2010 played 8 games with a record of 3-5, no where near the level he held when he was in his prime. For Nada, its 8 games with a record of 5-3, with one win against a high level opponent (Hiya). So no, they should not be necessarily dominating so easily. BW pros become pro because of their practice routine, rarely out of just raw talent (there are talented players, and those players are given the honor of being considered a bonjwa). And no, the current level of wins from MVP for example is unheard of in the later stages of BW (assuming we take Flash out of the equation). As the game develops out, a player will be considered a very strong vX when they achieve at 70% win rate, and if the level of play truly starts to rise (which I believe it will) the state of the game will reach a point where players are winning about 50-60% of their games if their considered S class. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
SC2 is childs play. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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I)etox
1240 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:27 Maliris wrote: This article is terribly ignorant. Just throwing up a bunch of stats with no context whatsoever. What about NaDa and Julyzerg? Why are they not dominating everyone and everything effortlessly? Modern BW pro's rely on their exceptional macro and mechanics which are diluted in SC2, they would probably be an MVP/Nestea level player, but they won't just destroy everyone. Sad that a BW elitist felt like writing something like this on TL... i agree with Doa, Artosis, and the hundreds of other people that think this is a load of shit Did you even read the entire article? You must have not because he specifically addresses both Nada and July. Both of them are old bw legends who rarely even saw any play anymore. Oh yeah, and Nada is still going to school while competing in SC2, which is ridiculous when you consider he's one of the most consistent players in the scene. And you really, really don't understand how good JD/Flash and other BW "S-Class" pros are if you think that they are only on the level of MVP/Nestea (Both of which were horrible in BW relative to the bw god tier). Read the rest of the thread man. Everyone in here pretty much agrees that a transition of bw pros to the sc2 scene would completely dethrone the current top tier of players. | ||
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Istvan
22 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:20 Tarot wrote: Haha. I feel exactly the same way about the scene. Ever since I watched Zergbong (Nestea) vs Skyhigh, where Zergbong ran in half a dozen lurkers and a bunch of lings into 4 bunkers just to lose all of them and kill nothing, I haven't been able to take the SC2 scene seriously. Now this guy is top Zerg in the world? Come on. If you feel "the same way", then you would be going with the article's main point that work ethic is the important element that separates JD and Flash and other pro BW gamers from the rest. In the case, you might accept that Nestea has put in some good work to improve his play. In my first team chess tournament, I lost all 5 of my games and cost my team a podium finish. In my last team chess tournament, I went 3.5 of 5 and helped my team to a second place. The same story goes for my sprint kayaking journey. In SC2, I lost all 5 of my 1vs1 placement matches, but through practice got to platinum after 100+ games. You don't seem to understand that failures are a NECESSARY prerequisite for success. Have you always been a winner in life? I must salute you. Finally, the OP was bull. It is a discredit to my beloved BW AND SC2 to suggest that players can switch from one to the other with similar level of performances. Until the top BW players come over and prove that they do dominate, I wouldn't buy it. It's akin to the soccer vs football or MMA vs boxing debates all over again. I like BW and sc2; could you kindly keep them separate? | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:33 jacobmarlow wrote: @Blind-RawR "Ultimate Flash Fanboy!| Afrotoss Fan #3|Start yo-Flash|I Support ACE and KT for R5 and R6,You know me as a huge KT Rolster fan anyway.| MYM.Mondragon,Playing Zerg the way its supposed to be played" Nice quote there. I wonder why you agree with the article???? Im sure theres no bias there. Sc1 is an outdated game mainly being played in korea and in some parts of the world where people cannot afford to buy an non-pirated copy of Sc2 or a have a decent enough computer to run it. I completely understand where your coming from  @chaoser - All your Teamliquid posts have been on non-star craft related topics (anime and manga threads), and on some random SC1 threads related Hite and Woojin allstars as well as the "Flash would do well in Sc2" thread. lol Not surprising that you would disagree with my POV. You are obviously not an avid player of SC2. There are tons of people who were fans of SC1 that did not transfer over to SC2. I understand that, but it does not give you the right to belittle Sc2 players and assume that Sc1 players are better at a game they have yet to play. It's just not very smart. Btw I agree my analogy was bad. The point i was trying to make was that you can't say Sc1 players, simply becuase they are playing an outdated game that demands more mechanically would automatically be better in Sc2. SC2 is much less mechanically focused and is much more strategically focused. This and there are many many other variables to consider in the success of a progamer. As has been mentioned before, SC1 is more mechanically demanding but that doesn't mean that that there is no strategy. By.hero maxes at 500 APM and he's pretty mediocre. Stork is relatively slow in the low 200's but is considered one of the best players still around. Saying that mechanics is everything just shows that you have no idea what pro BW is like. At the very top all the players are pretty damn mechanically sound (except for Fantasy's bio) so what separates them is their ability to read their opponents and prepare strategies, kinda like in SC2. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On May 12 2011 23:41 Torumfroll wrote: Frankly I'm a bit disappointed that this article even made it to the front page. It reeks of BW elitism and Sc2 hate and the fact that this website has gained a shitload of exposure thanks to Sc2 it makes no sense to me. You are of course right, BW pros are incredibly talented RTS players and are superior to our current Sc2 stars. Does that mean the whole scene is a farce? I guess Jinro, Huk and Haypro can pack their bags and go home, since their career is built upon this "farce". I guess GOM can cancel their tournaments as well. Whats the point anyway since the BW Gods are vastly superior to the terrible Sc2 players. Do you even realize how stupid that sounds? Starcraft 2 has a long way to go until it catches up with BW, if it ever does catch up. I just cant understand why you feel the need to belittle the game and its players and basically say "hey your achievements in this game are fucking worthless compared to these guys over here. Yeah come on over and bask in their divine aura of awesomeness" I agree with this post. I really love Federer v. Nadal rivalry in tennis, at least what it was 3-4 years ago, when both were probably on top of their form. I just craved to watch those whenever a Grand Slam was happening. However, take someone like Ivo Karlovic. You can probably say he is nothing compared to a mastermind like Federer. However, his games are fun to watch in a way, because his greatest skill is his serves. Due to his height, he can hit really fast and unique serves. He actually had something like a 78 aces in a match, which is a record in itself, where even the big players hit something like 25 aces in a match when they're playing well. Of course when Karlovic meets someone like Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick, or Wawrinka who is a great player by the way, his serve-volley style just do not work as those players can return his serves. Federer once returned a 250 km/h Roddick serve with a flick of his wrist. Take Wawrinka. He is a really good player, but outshone by the success of Federer and Nadal. However, he probably has the best one-handed backhand after Roger Federer. Fernando Gonzalez, again he is not that great compared to the big names, but he played a match in US Open 2009 against someone which I can't remember his name, and it was probably the fastest paced match I've ever matched. Both players were hitting the ball like there's no tomorrow, and with great precision, it was like watching those master ping-pong players, but on a tennis court. It entertained me more than any match up until that. The point I'm trying to make is this: Success isn't everything. There will always be dominating people in each sport. This is because they are special people. There won't be many of them around, so they are to be treasured and watched with awe. But the competition itself is not only about them. All the others, all the unknown people who the big names beat, which you laugh at for their mistakes, are part of it. And they at least deserve some respect for their effort and participation. If you play in an age where Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal play, even if you are a good player, the chances of you winning a Grand Slam is low. Andy Roddick would be THE player if Federer did not exist at his youth. It's the same case with Jaedong and Flash. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
Kudos | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
Ok, maybe not, but that's because SC is inferior to chess and doesn't allow "true" skill to shine! Who cares if they are 40 years old and have no hand-eye coordination to speak of... In a REAL game you wouldn't rely on puny hand and wrist muscles to win. In a REAL game a grandmaster would win 10000/10000 games against any BW pro. So  | ||
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fearus
China2164 Posts
JD and Flash would perform better, the more difficult the game is and more demanding it is. Now that we all agree SC2 is a easier game, micro and macro wise, which ultimately hurts them and takes away their greatest strength. Bisu on the other hand would clearly dominate but thats another story for another time. | ||
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felizuno
United States164 Posts
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_awake_
196 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
you forgot to mention flash's ruler | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:41 fearus wrote: I actually completely disagree with the article aswell. JD and Flash would perform better, the more difficult the game is and more demanding it is. Now that we all agree SC2 is a easier game, micro and macro wise, which ultimately hurts them and takes away their greatest strength. Bisu on the other hand would clearly dominate but thats another story for another time. haha | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:40 AlBundy wrote: I don't mean to flood this interesting topic in any way; however I'd like to commend Intrigue and other members for renewing & stirring up this everlasting and substantive debate; there are now 86 pages of really interesting comments to read Kudoswhich is pretty hilarious, as in any other sc1 v sc2 threads, any flame wars was met with the ban hammer (or a big ass warning on top) and somehow this one is allowed to go on. | ||
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vaporizor
United States53 Posts
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Samhax
1054 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:35 RushWifDietCoke wrote: What about NaDa and Julyzerg? You know when their prime was? estimating, roughly 2003, although they've both remained somewhat consistent over the years they are by no means the top BW pros. They are both awesome, JulyZerg is in my top 3 favorite players but I didn't expect them to go and dominate SC2 like some of these other pros of today would. How are the stats just thrown up with no context? He clearly pointed out the stats of these players when playing broodwar (terrible win %) and how they all are winning the GSL and being the top SC2 gamers. It's sad that a SC2 elitist would come and try to throw BW under the bus after only joining the site last month. Lol do you know what elitist mean? There is no elitism in sc2 because this game is easy to learn and play and everybody agree on that. | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:41 fearus wrote: I actually completely disagree with the article aswell. JD and Flash would perform better, the more difficult the game is and more demanding it is. Now that we all agree SC2 is a easier game, micro and macro wise, which ultimately hurts them and takes away their greatest strength. Bisu on the other hand would clearly dominate but thats another story for another time. hahahahahahahahahaha I [2] this | ||
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