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On May 13 2011 01:46 Deadlyfish wrote:
I cant actually believe that the word "farce" was used to describe this. Maybe say something like "we havent even seen the potential of sc2 or sc2 players yet - there is still more to come" or something like that. Take a different approach to the topic. You took the "BW-players-are-much-better-than-SC2-players" approach. And while i dont think the article is offensive, it being on the fronpage of TL is kinda annoying.
You know what scars me the most? sc2 is getting figure out pretty fast. Theres no such unit that people don't know how to use efficiently. Yeah, timmings and oppening builds are being created every day... but I don't see how the game could develop alot more.
In bw we have units being used for the first time just recently (queens in zvt). maybe it's just me, but i'm a bit worried about the game state right now.
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On May 13 2011 01:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 01:47 Mailing wrote:On May 13 2011 01:46 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 13 2011 01:44 Logros wrote:On May 13 2011 01:36 Zoler wrote:
This. The newschools have no idea how fucking high the level in SCBW is.
SC2 is childs play. I've seen people get banned for saying this about BW... well,compared to BW it is true that SC2 is child play. Then get off this children's website? hahaha question when was TL formed and What game was played when TL was formed? I seem to be derailing the topic so if you want to continue this please take it to PMs.
But it is not off topic. It doesn't matter if the site was formed for BW, right now 90% of the online users are here for SC2. A game that is getting massive amounts of disrespect in this thread.
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You can make excuses for Nada, Boxer and July all day but you can't say with absolute certainty that the likes of Flash and Jaedong would completely dominate the SC2 scene if they switched. Starcraft 2 IS a different game, BW records shouldn't matter. Kas (former semi pro from wc3) dominated Nada (former "god" from BW) recently. 439-290 (60.22%) is just a number and I don't like that this article is so heavily based around them.
The day when these "superhumans" from BW switch and dominate the SC2 scene go ahead and yell "I told you so" but for now it is completely pointless to be upset about this and let it affect your enjoyment of SC2.
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I'm sure over 86 pages some pretty good points have been brought up about this, but I don't have time to go through this entire thread just to see if people have made this comment: calling SC2 competition a "farce" because there's a huge talent base for the game which isn't participating in it (SC:BW progamers) is the same as calling Lacrosse competition in Canada a "farce" because the best athletes inevitably play Hockey, or MLS competition a "farce" because the EPL has players ten times as good.
The level of play in SC2 is obviously not optimal, due to the age of the game and the lack of structured practices more than anything. The best days are ahead of us, no question. None of that cheapens the current SC2 competitions in the slightest; no fan of Basketball during the 50s and 60s feels slighted for having watched just because the caliber of play wasn't as high as it would be in the 80s and onward, or because the best athletes weren't yet a part of the game. It was still massively enjoyable and massively competitive, so why complain?
Sooner of later SC2 will overtake BW, it has two expansions and many years to do so. We're living in its infancy. Comparing it to another video game love of mine, Smash Bros. Melee, we're at the point in SC2's lifespan where a Jigglypuff can face a Link player in the finals of a major tournament. Nobody understands how powerful Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Marth are, and nobody cares because it's still a good time. And the future is only going to be better!
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damn are you guys serious? you mean a game that has been played through and through for like a decade is played at a higher level than one thats been out only a year? why didnt i think of that? thats it, im done wit sc2. lol
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On May 13 2011 01:41 _awake_ wrote:
It's akin to Kobe Bryant switching over to the WNBA.
No it isn't, because there are physical reasons why Kobe would score 100 every game vs women
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Hmmm, well I do agree BW pros would do better, I can't help feel that with the less rewarding and more noob friendly SC2 system that they wouldn't dominate as much as people might think.
Also, MVP only had a 40% winrate? I thought it was a lot higher....dude took some games off Flash after all
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On May 13 2011 01:47 Tarot wrote:
SC2 being far more popular is only true in the west. Globally (West+Korea), BW is more popular by far. There's a reason why the BW pro-scene can support a 80k salary for good players and a 200k salary for top players whereas only some SC2 teams get salaries at all.
The only area in the world where BW's still alive is in korea. RTS players all over the world have en masse switched over. Thinking that BW is globally more popular than SC2 is just wishful thinking from an ever decreasing minority.
The reason why korean BW players can pay the salaries they pay to the top players is because of korea's unique e-sports development with massive corporate sponsoring.
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On May 13 2011 01:52 stratmatt wrote:
damn are you guys serious? you mean a game that has been played through and through for like a decade is played at a higher level than one thats been out only a year? why didnt i think of that? thats it, im done wit sc2. lol
People refuse to acknowledge that for some reason.
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On May 13 2011 01:32 War Horse wrote:
I have to say, why do Brood War fans have to continue with this hostile dialogue? Looking at both forums, I never see SC2 fans come in to the BW forums and trash the game as "robot wars" or something like that, but you can constantly see notable names (Konadora comes to mind) come into SC2 forums and bash the shit out of the game. I just don't see the reason for all this hostility, besides resentment that SC2 is far more popular. If that's your reasoning, then jesus, grow up.
I agree with this, I mean I (*legasp*) like both games but many of the BW fans are downright hostile to the new SC2 fans. I mean, yeah Jesus just grow up
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rofl at first I thought this was about IM not being in the GSTL, and a GSTL preview -.- oh god lol
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The idea that a newer, lesser skilled game sequel is not new. Halo has seen this multiple times over the years and it always takes a few seasons for the veterans to fully grasp the new game and compete at the highest level (Example: Ogre2 finally comprehending Halo 3 and winning the last handful of events). Once the top BW pros make the switch, it's obvious that the competitiveness of the SCII scene will increase... but it takes time for players to fully grasp the concepts of a new game. I feel that this article has good intentions, but it's coming from a nostalgia driven writer without correct context.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:42 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 01:40 AlBundy wrote:I don't mean to flood this interesting topic in any way; however I'd like to commend Intrigue and other members for renewing & stirring up this everlasting and substantive debate; there are now 86 pages of really interesting comments to read  Kudos which is pretty hilarious, as in any other sc1 v sc2 threads, any flame wars was met with the ban hammer (or a big ass warning on top) and somehow this one is allowed to go on.
Not if they are well-planned and well-executed. Surely you can see the difference between the two.
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On May 13 2011 01:51 Kznn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 01:46 Deadlyfish wrote:
I cant actually believe that the word "farce" was used to describe this. Maybe say something like "we havent even seen the potential of sc2 or sc2 players yet - there is still more to come" or something like that. Take a different approach to the topic. You took the "BW-players-are-much-better-than-SC2-players" approach. And while i dont think the article is offensive, it being on the fronpage of TL is kinda annoying. You know what scars me the most? sc2 is getting figure out pretty fast. Theres no such unit that people don't know how to use efficiently. Yeah, timmings and oppening builds are being created every day... but I don't see how the game could develop alot more. In bw we have units being used for the first time just recently (queens in zvt). maybe it's just me, but i'm a bit worried about the game state right now.
There's 2 expansions incoming, so I wouldn't worry too much ^.^ the metagame is still evolving, just look at how trends in each match-up have changed over the past 6 months. We're nowhere near the ceiling yet
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On May 13 2011 01:51 MajorityofOne wrote:
I'm sure over 86 pages some pretty good points have been brought up about this, but I don't have time to go through this entire thread just to see if people have made this comment: calling SC2 competition a "farce" because there's a huge talent base for the game which isn't participating in it (SC:BW progamers) is the same as calling Lacrosse competition in Canada a "farce" because the best athletes inevitably play Hockey, or MLS competition a "farce" because the EPL has players ten times as good.
The level of play in SC2 is obviously not optimal, due to the age of the game and the lack of structured practices more than anything. The best days are ahead of us, no question. None of that cheapens the current SC2 competitions in the slightest; no fan of Basketball during the 50s and 60s feels slighted for having watched just because the caliber of play wasn't as high as it would be in the 80s and onward, or because the best athletes weren't yet a part of the game. It was still massively enjoyable and massively competitive, so why complain?
Sooner of later SC2 will overtake BW, it has two expansions and many years to do so. We're living in its infancy. Comparing it to another video game love of mine, Smash Bros. Melee, we're at the point in SC2's lifespan where a Jigglypuff can face a Link player in the finals of a major tournament. Nobody understands how powerful Sheik, Fox, Falco, and Marth are, and nobody cares because it's still a good time. And the future is only going to be better!
This. Its condescending and annoying and is meant just be a shot across the bow at SC2 players. It seems like there is a subset of the BW community that enjoys making bad arguments bashing people who happen to like SC2 (even those who like both!)
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Great read. There's really no arguing the points made; they're supreme and they're valid.
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On May 13 2011 01:53 1Eris1 wrote:
Hmmm, well I do agree BW pros would do better, I can't help feel that with the less rewarding and more noob friendly SC2 system that they wouldn't dominate as much as people might think.
Also, MVP only had a 40% winrate? I thought it was a lot higher....dude took some games off Flash after all
You know CuteAngel Aka Frozean has a winning record vs Bisu ?
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On May 13 2011 01:52 stratmatt wrote:
damn are you guys serious? you mean a game that has been played through and through for like a decade is played at a higher level than one thats been out only a year? why didnt i think of that? thats it, im done wit sc2. lol
Chess has been around for hundreds of years, and is played at a level that Starcraft could never even hope to reach. You could practice and study for 16 hours a day and you would still be crushed by grandmasters because they have so much innate talent and intelligence you could never overcome it. Time to quit broodwar now.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On May 13 2011 01:51 MajorityofOne wrote:
I'm sure over 86 pages some pretty good points have been brought up about this, but I don't have time to go through this entire thread just to see if people have made this comment: calling SC2 competition a "farce" because there's a huge talent base for the game which isn't participating in it (SC:BW progamers) is the same as calling Lacrosse competition in Canada a "farce" because the best athletes inevitably play Hockey, or MLS competition a "farce" because the EPL has players ten times as good.
I agree and that sentence in the original article really isn't acceptable.
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I was not expecting that TL would have a post like this on the forum 
But overall, sorry to say but it seems more like a whine post then anything else. This whole post is based on nothing but speculation and probably you are right but what does it matter? IF .... switch then ....They did not switch and probably won't in near future. So until then let SC2 grow to its full potential.
Its a new game and lets have fun with it!
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EPT
