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bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:25 Kiante wrote: since when were prelims counted games? you changed the stats by adding in all the games they played against B teamers in prelims? lol. good job einstein Yeah MC beating BeSt in a best of 3 is truly irrelevant. | ||
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Musou
1375 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:19 rkiga wrote: Top 2 reasons why this article is 100% bullshit: 1. You can't rely on stats to tell you who is good at a game and who isn't, especially not win percentage stats. 2. EVERY SINGLE STAT IN THIS ARTICLE IS WRONG. The author and those who left the 900+ comments here failed to realize that TLPD's "Main Info" tab is bugged and is always wrong (you have to click through to the "Record & Games" tab to see real stats). Please go see for yourself that all the stats are wrong. I left a more detailed response on reddit if you care. OP is using televised games, not prelims/special event matches/etc. The same goes for SC2 stats. We don't get to see their stats from the prelims because they aren't recorded for SC2, while they are for BW. In that case, do you want to add in stats from their practice games inhouse and on fish/brainclan and when they show up on special event shows like b.net attack? Because that would change the stats greatly too. Flash's teammates say he almost never loses in practice. Can you imagine if that near-100% winrate was added to his stats? It would look absolutely ridiculous. | ||
HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:19 rkiga wrote: Top 2 reasons why this article is 100% bullshit: 1. You can't rely on stats to tell you who is good at a game and who isn't, especially not win percentage stats. 2. EVERY SINGLE STAT IN THIS ARTICLE IS WRONG. The author and those who left the 900+ comments here failed to realize that TLPD's "Main Info" tab is bugged and is always wrong (you have to click through to the "Record & Games" tab to see real stats). Please go see for yourself that all the stats are wrong. I left a more detailed response on reddit if you care. Lmao, you're counting preliminaries? Are you seriously trying to argue that ZERGBONG had a 50% winrate in professional BW? Come on now... | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:25 Kiante wrote: since when were prelims counted games? you changed the stats by adding in all the games they played against B teamers in prelims? lol. good job einstein lol yeah. And what if not stats show how good a player is? | ||
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Humppis
Finland52 Posts
On May 12 2011 18:57 neoenigma wrote: Isn't the real elephant in the room the fact that SC2 requires far less mechanics than BW? Idra even said that he doesn't really even need to practice to stay good at SC2. The game is severely dumbed down compared to BW... making it easy for former BW B-teamers to win GSL. I can't really get into SC2 like I could BW. The games, on average, are a lot more boring. Fights aren't nearly as interesting. Engagements are over so fast. The games look more like deathball compositions smashing into each other with the winner coming out on top. I actually don't know how well Flash would do in SC2. The lower skill cap means that anyone can take games off people. All that being said, I'm really surprised (and I suppose excited) that SC2 is doing so well as an E-sport. Hopefully it stays that way, and the game gets some updates that make it more interesting to watch. Idra blames game for being imbalanced instead of practicing harder. If you wish to call better mechanics "dumbing the game down" then go ahead. You must be entering your house trough window instead of door every time since doors are "dumbing it down". Tell you what, start using door instead of window to save some time and be more productive. Make some toast maybe. You dont have to waste your time going trough window just to make it look harder. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
This ladies and gentleman is what pisses off most the older&wiser sharks of this site! They just can stand that a "inferior game"(this is what they consider) has more hype and followers then their beloved BW.. Instead of searching for elephants go and watch your game and i will watch what i prefer.. can i? will you let me? Or am i a stupid lame guy just because i prefer SC2 over BW? Can i like a player even if by your standarts he sucks compared to a BW GOD? Can i like July in SC2 even tho is alter-ego in BW is far superior?? thank you | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:27 bennyaus wrote: Yeah MC beating BeSt in a best of 3 is truly irrelevant. In prelims whith best slumping ? Yes, as much as idra beating Gorush was irrelevant (Gorush used to be very good, but he was arguably the worst progamer playing at that time). So, yeah, OP's stats are better. On May 12 2011 19:29 shell wrote: What i find more funny is that MSL Ro8 of the best game ever made and with the best players the world has ever seen is live right now and has 1600 viewers and ROOTdestiny aka Steven bonell is streaming ladder and has 2800 viewers!! This ladies and gentleman is what pisses off most the older&wiser sharks of this site! They just can stand that a "inferior game"(this is what they consider) has more hype and followers then their beloved BW.. Outside of korea. BW is still bigger than sc2. And yeah, I don't like people thinking avatar's a good movie, but I deal with it... | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Lorizean
Germany1330 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:19 rkiga wrote: Top 2 reasons why this article is 100% bullshit: 1. You can't rely on stats to tell you who is good at a game and who isn't, especially not win percentage stats. 2. EVERY SINGLE STAT IN THIS ARTICLE IS WRONG. The author and those who left the 900+ comments here failed to realize that TLPD's "Main Info" tab is bugged and is always wrong (you have to click through to the "Record & Games" tab to see real stats). Please go see for yourself that all the stats are wrong. I left a more detailed response on reddit if you care. This is actually so funny. It shows that OP simply didn't research well enough. Or maybe he just wanted the stats to match what he's saying? Also, what somebody else noted about the misquotings of MVP etc. It doesn't matter whether or not what OP is saying is true, a Final Edit on Teamliquid should have some quality standards and they should include quoting the right Statistics. Also, why the derogatory Language towards SC2? Calling the competition a "Farce" is downright insulting to all the pro-players currently playing SC2. | ||
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SDShamshel
United States8 Posts
Nestea is probably the most pronounced example. In an interview after he won his first championship, he talked about how he had always shown skill as a BW amateur, but that when he successfully managed to become a pro and join a team, he was asked to play 2v2, where the skillset and training are incompatible with 1v1, and in some ways actually detrimental. When they removed 2v2 from Brood War competition, not only did Nestea have to start from a position of less experience in 1v1, but he also had to unlearn his 2v2 training. Monster players like Flash and Jaedong and the actual time it would take to work through that aside, that kind of setback can cause a guy's heart to sink, to make it feel like not only was all their experience a waste, but that they would never be able to make up for it. But with a new game out, Starcraft 2, Nestea was able to make a more or less clean break with his troubled progaming history. He had a fresh start. While overall less fierce competition in the SC2 scene can't be denied, nor can the lack of frighteningly powerful Flash-level individuals, I think that what we've been seeing in these old BW B-Teamers finding success in SC2 can't just be chalked up to SC2 being easier, or the competition being less intense. Though it won't be in every case, I think the new environment that is SC2 has been invigorating for some of the old progamers who were just psychologically limited by the size and preponderance of Korean Brood War progaming. | ||
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itiswhatitis
United States136 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:30 Kipsate wrote: People are so missing the point of this Article -.-. Is that the fault of the readers, or the writer? Personally I think he should have known people would focus on one specific part of it when he wrote it, because it slanders the achievements of all current sc2 pros. | ||
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Synwave
United States2803 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:18 Cedstick wrote: Just argued about this article quite thoroughly on IRC, and I have to say that a lot of people are mis-interpreting it, the, "Elephant in the Room." The point is the practice and mindsets going in to it every day -- why BW pros are better than SC2 pros, and why they will dominate when they come over. If current pros don't step it up, they're going to become irrelevant. I can see how that might be a construed perspective. However I tend to read editorials similar to a thesis statement and defense which to my eyes is exactly how this article is written. The statement at the start being "The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce." which is then defended in whichever manner the author chooses. The elephant here is clearly labeled and it is clearly an inflammatory dead horse that has caused a number of threads to be closed. | ||
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
On May 12 2011 19:24 sandyph wrote: nice catch  wonder whether OP will change his post or not based on this new find "Nice catch?" Lol Were you thinking that intrigue and the rest of the TL staff involved in this would put an article with made up or falsified numbers into the spotlight as their first editorial piece for a year? | ||
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BBX
Netherlands16 Posts
I feel that, statistically speaking, you must be right and better players, with better routines or work ethics will come along. Regardless of where they come from, I am sure you are correct. But, as I said though, it is hard to imagine it will make a difference. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
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kAra
Germany1387 Posts
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bashalisk
102 Posts
That's the only question I need answered by the OP. After that, he can go watch some 2002 games and marvel at the sight that was one-base all-ins on BGH, because if he wants to be comparative that's far far away from SC2's metagame development at this point. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
The current crop of top SC2 players get by just by practicing whenever the hell they want, rather than having to practice 10 hours a day every day like in BW. Frankly, it's pretty obvious that it shows in their play. Very rarely do people show games that are truly inspiring. Just about every damn time I watch a game of Jaedong I'm left in god damn amazement. | ||
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Mulletarian
Norway101 Posts
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DisaFear
Australia4074 Posts
I just know the Jaedong and Flash by name and reputation. Now that I read your emphasis on HOW GOOD they are, I feel really excited. That they can just walk in and sweep the floor, fun! Good stuff, hope the best for the future of sc2 | ||
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