EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 5
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Parsistamon
United States390 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
The idea of a "woongjin terran" being "the best terran in the world..." is a little off-putting. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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fly.stat
United States449 Posts
I feel that it is needed after all of the love and praise nestea vs. scfou game 5 got. The impression I got from that match was the same that I got from Sun vs. Calm last night in a non playoff proleague match, which when typed out and read is actually more pathetic than I originally thought it was. The level of play is just not there yet, and I don't know if it will be any time soon unless some young supertalents pick up sc2 in the near future (or if the BW free agency really does lead to a bunch of BW talent making the switch). Intrigue, you've just won 200 E-RESPECT BUCKS from me. | ||
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Wraith.978
Canada37 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:12 SiegeFlank wrote: I really liked this article. I don't think it necessarily brought too much new to the table for someone who's witnessed the brood war competitive scene (other than the raw statistics), but I think that this article will be eye-opening for a lot of people that are new to SC2 and e-sports in general. But it's great that you took a lot of discussion points about the state of the competitive scene and presented it in such an organized way. The one thing I disagree with though is calling the competitive scene a "farce." I understand that the game has an infinite amount of room to become more competitive so long as players like Flash and Jaedong exist, but a "farce" just sounds like too negative of a way to describe the competitive scene. That there are better players out there that have yet to join doesn't take away from a game's competitiveness. A significant amount (though not all) of the players that play really do have the dedication to the game that causes it to become so competitive in the first place, even if they're not the best. This. User was warned for this post | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
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1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
Good writeup. | ||
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emecee
United States222 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:03 Sc1pio wrote: He didn't just say it, he's talking about the A team pro BW players who he just spent an entire article establishing as having a better work ethic and establishing that they would crush SC2 players within a short timespan. i disagreed with him saying it cheapens competition. which makes no sense at all. just because some people have the potential to be good at something dosent mean the competition between the people in that field is worthless. this article has no point at all other than stating the obvious fact that the top players at sc1 will be good at sc2. what a revelation.. | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
did idra improve? at the end of his bw career he was the best foreigner. anyways great right up. always nice to have these with stats and such. Not sure if i agree if all bw progamers would dominate but it will get harder if they do come. | ||
HawaiianPig
Canada5155 Posts
Thank you for giving me something to link to people to when I inarticulately try to make this point. Been a while since the last Final Edit too. Love it love it love it. | ||
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KuroN3ko
Malaysia154 Posts
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Mooncowtime
United States315 Posts
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Skipton
United States707 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On May 12 2011 13:56 oXoCube wrote: So Basically you're saying that if the best RTS players in the world started playing SC2 fiull time they would be pretty good? Go Figure. I take it you didn't read the article description + Show Spoiler + This is not an article that will make me popular. This is not an article that will start negative but end with eloquent, poignant hope. But we have been skirting around this topic ever since Beta now, so I’ll just f**king say it: The competition in SC2 thus far has been a farce.  | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
If anything this just means the games will get even better once more BW pros start to switch over. And as for enticing the likes of Flash, JD, and Bisu...well obviously the money needs to be there. Tournaments can only start to offer bigger prize pools and teams can only start to offer bigger salaries as the scene grows, and this relies on the BW B-team players like MVP and MC to come up with (relatively) good games to grow the scene. Teams won't be able to pay out 200K salaries overnight. As the scene grows so will the prize pools and as a result, it will draw in more talent. Also not sure why people think this will somehow affect foreign Starcraft. I realize that the gap between foreign and Korean Starcraft 2 will probably widen as more pros switch over, but you really think that will kill tournaments like the NASL, IPL, MLG, etc.? I'll tune in to watch fellow Americans like IdrA or baller Europeans with different styles like ThorZain any day of the week, even if it means watching a game one notch below what's currently going on in the GSL. For the same reasons I watch College (American) Football AND the NFL. | ||
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yawnoC
United States3704 Posts
Low level players in Brood War make little or nothing on proteams. They help more successful players practice, and otherwise spend their time desperately clawing their way up in-house rankings for a shot at Proleague. There is no respect or fame, only the daily grind to maybe get better, maybe move up to A-team, and maybe maybe play a televised game. This paragraph made me wonder if maybe this is PART of the reason some players are never anything more than 'practice partners' or B teamers. They are STUCK in the position of having to help those already established and better than them stay on top and can not really play for themselves. Starcraft 2 offered them that opportunity and they are making the best of it. I was not a hardcore follower of BroodWar though. I just knew the big name players so maybe my opinion is skewed by not having full knowledge of how the pro scene and the system within the teams worked. Anyway the above though was something that just came to me when I read that paragraph so take it for whatever its worth. :D BUT when I think of SC2 and BW it reminds me so much of what happened with CS 1.6 and CSS. When the CGS started up and the 1.6 players switched over most of them moved right to the top, some were even better at CSS than they were in 1.6, but there were still those "CSS teams" who were 'horrible' at 1.6 that still could hang with the former 1.6 pros. Maybe they just didn't get the same opportunitys in 1.6 that they got in CSS. I really enjoyed the article though. Maybe in two years we will see if this article was right or just completely misplaced. | ||
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j3i
United States357 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:14 Parsistamon wrote: The oxen metaphor is glorious pioneering in video games. except this time it's enteritis instead of dysentary. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
I'm not sure why it happens, though. On May 12 2011 14:16 emecee wrote: this article has no point at all other than stating the obvious fact that the top players at sc1 will be good at sc2. what a revelation.. I agree, but I don't think intrigue would dispute that. As it says, it's the elephant in the room. A lot of us know about it, but a lot of people don't. He just wanted to get it out there. | ||
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ThunderBum
Australia192 Posts
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Char711
United States862 Posts
Now, moving on. I agree for a lot of it. A lot of things carry over between games in that you learn certain skills, even in games that are only somewhat related (man SC2 helped me when I just started LoL very recently, never mind my childhood of WC3/FT). This doesn't mean that you can immediately call domination, though. If you're talking about that pure skill carrying over then I don't see why some of the decent BW players are struggling in comparison to people who are either brand new to SC or to most RTS in general. Basically, correlation is not equal to causation. So, while I agree with you on the whole, I think you're overemphasizing things as BW fans tend to do (don't get me wrong: lots of SC2 fans love to go way, way over the edge on the other side). I'd also like to thank you for the salary stuff. I've always been really curious/interested about it! Would have helped me more when I was doing research for my rhetoric project about eSports last week, though.  (Edit: And, for some reason, I absolutely love reading SC history. Thanks for putting that in!)Edit: Forgot to add that I do agree with, say, your comment about Flash. But that gets back to overall talent. Talent, as I allude to in my part about new to SC/RTS, is not the same as experience and is another factor. Another way to look at it is that more talented people gravitated towards BW because of the money rather than BW making people so much better. You'd have to go way, way more in depth to nail exact causes. | ||
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