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On December 11 2013 13:11 Rhodesian Ridgeback wrote:
I was sent here by the Example 4.
Reading this article made me laugh, whoever wrote it is looking pretty silly as all those BW players (not named Jaedong) failed to dominate or do well.
It's not that silly, though. I think the reason this debate keeps going on and on is because BOTH SIDES have a point.
BW and SC2/HotS are different enough that the very same top KeSPA pros weren't able to come over and be the very best. E.g. Stork, Leta, Bisu, etc. They were the top BW players, like Top 10 easily, and they never reached Top 10 (or near to it) in SC2. Flash and Jaedong were like #1 and #2, and they aren't considered as "elite" in SC2 as they were in BW.
Surprisingly, some of the "lesser" KeSPA pros, or some of the up and comers, such as Rain, Innovation (Bogus), Soulkey (and to a lesser extent, RorO and sOs) rose to nearly the same heights in SC2 as Flash and Jaedong occupied in BW.
So I think both sides of the argument are supported: 1) The good KeSPA pros can and did switch over, and begin to assert dominance (or at least compete very strongly against) the pre-existing SC2 (mostly ESF) pros. Hence the high number of KeSPA won GSL's. You can credit their KeSPA training regime, their amazing BW mechanics and experience, etc.
2) The top BW pros weren't the top SC2 pros, and the non KeSPA pros were still able to compete and win titles against them. It's because that very same KeSPA training regime, mechanics and experience didn't end up being as key as the OP originally thought.
And I think Jaedong would agree. From his latest interview:
Jaedong - http://evilgeniuses.gg/Read/221,Jaedong-dishes-on-ASUS-Rog-and-2013/
Brood War and SC2 are of the same series, but are different games. After having played both games, I can see that there is no reason to assume that just because one player was very good in Brood War, he'd also be the best in SC2.
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On December 16 2013 14:28 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 13:11 Rhodesian Ridgeback wrote:
I was sent here by the Example 4.
Reading this article made me laugh, whoever wrote it is looking pretty silly as all those BW players (not named Jaedong) failed to dominate or do well. It's not that silly, though. I think the reason this debate keeps going on and on is because BOTH SIDES have a point. BW and SC2/HotS are different enough that the very same top KeSPA pros weren't able to come over and be the very best. E.g. Stork, Leta, Bisu, etc. They were the top BW players, like Top 10 easily, and they never reached Top 10 (or near to it) in SC2. Flash and Jaedong were like #1 and #2, and they aren't considered as "elite" in SC2 as they were in BW. Surprisingly, some of the "lesser" KeSPA pros, or some of the up and comers, such as Rain, Innovation (Bogus), Soulkey (and to a lesser extent, RorO and sOs) rose to nearly the same heights in SC2 as Flash and Jaedong occupied in BW. So I think both sides of the argument are supported: 1) The good KeSPA pros can and did switch over, and begin to assert dominance (or at least compete very strongly against) the pre-existing SC2 (mostly ESF) pros. Hence the high number of KeSPA won GSL's. You can credit their KeSPA training regime, their amazing BW mechanics and experience, etc. 2) The top BW pros weren't the top SC2 pros, and the non KeSPA pros were still able to compete and win titles against them. It's because that very same KeSPA training regime, mechanics and experience didn't end up being as key as the OP originally thought. And I think Jaedong would agree. From his latest interview: Jaedong - http://evilgeniuses.gg/Read/221,Jaedong-dishes-on-ASUS-Rog-and-2013/Show nested quote +Brood War and SC2 are of the same series, but are different games. After having played both games, I can see that there is no reason to assume that just because one player was very good in Brood War, he'd also be the best in SC2. Well, the elephant in the room wasn't about that 'some BW players would also be very good and amongst the best in SC2', did anyone ever deny that? Obviously if all BW pros switch over there are going to be some between it that are very good.
The elephant in the room was that even the worst BW pros would mob the floor with the original SC2 pros, and that never happened, not even close.
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On December 16 2013 14:28 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 13:11 Rhodesian Ridgeback wrote:
I was sent here by the Example 4.
Reading this article made me laugh, whoever wrote it is looking pretty silly as all those BW players (not named Jaedong) failed to dominate or do well. It's not that silly, though. I think the reason this debate keeps going on and on is because BOTH SIDES have a point. BW and SC2/HotS are different enough that the very same top KeSPA pros weren't able to come over and be the very best. E.g. Stork, Leta, Bisu, etc. They were the top BW players, like Top 10 easily, and they never reached Top 10 (or near to it) in SC2. Flash and Jaedong were like #1 and #2, and they aren't considered as "elite" in SC2 as they were in BW. Surprisingly, some of the "lesser" KeSPA pros, or some of the up and comers, such as Rain, Innovation (Bogus), Soulkey (and to a lesser extent, RorO and sOs) rose to nearly the same heights in SC2 as Flash and Jaedong occupied in BW. So I think both sides of the argument are supported: 1) The good KeSPA pros can and did switch over, and begin to assert dominance (or at least compete very strongly against) the pre-existing SC2 (mostly ESF) pros. Hence the high number of KeSPA won GSL's. You can credit their KeSPA training regime, their amazing BW mechanics and experience, etc. 2) The top BW pros weren't the top SC2 pros, and the non KeSPA pros were still able to compete and win titles against them. It's because that very same KeSPA training regime, mechanics and experience didn't end up being as key as the OP originally thought. And I think Jaedong would agree. From his latest interview: Jaedong - http://evilgeniuses.gg/Read/221,Jaedong-dishes-on-ASUS-Rog-and-2013/Show nested quote +Brood War and SC2 are of the same series, but are different games. After having played both games, I can see that there is no reason to assume that just because one player was very good in Brood War, he'd also be the best in SC2.
No they never did, not even close to the level of JD and Flash.
And people need to stop trying to do revisionist interpretations on the article and it's point.
There's little argument left to be made on the thoughts and predictions made by this piece.
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Braavos36377 Posts
its happening guys
am i late
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your Country52797 Posts
Only a little late don't worry
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One thing is true. When people move on to other things then Kespa players dominate...
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On September 03 2014 19:40 Hot_Bid wrote:
its happening guys
am i late
DongRaeGu is in the Ro8 man this article was totally wrong
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I always get a good laugh from this...
But I wouldn't be surprised if people are revisionist with this article...
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On September 04 2014 09:18 Eliezar wrote:
One thing is true. When people move on to other things then Kespa players dominate... Nahh, all the guys like Taeja and Bomber, and Jjakji and MC and Polt and Violet and Hyun that would be in the Ro8 GSL only left because they are shit and can't handle the GSL.
Oh wait, Bomber just 4-0'd GSL semi finalist cure in completely dominating fashion.
The hilarious thing is, wasn't Hyun an Elephant originally?
I also like the revisions:
- All these players suck, and these players will dominate.
- Okay, some switched over before the others and arne't yet dominating, but that'sjust because they lack KeSPA practice
- Aha, KeSPA itself has finally switched, watch TBLK dominate guys.
- Okay, TBLS half retired and are doing decent at best, but watch these other KeSPA players who are now going to dominate
- AHA, KeSPA players are dominating, after all the good eSF players this article says suck are now bought by KeSPA.
Seriously, the article was never about "KeSPA", it was about certain players. KeSPA training is obviously pretty good and no one is denying that. But the article actually names that very same bomber that just 4-0'd Cure as a player that would be forced to retire when even mediocre BW players would switch and would mob the floor with him.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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On November 09 2014 08:14 Lorning wrote:
This article was a joke
Amen brotha
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Elephant hunters are about
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10/10 comedy piece, would laugh again
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On November 09 2014 08:14 Lorning wrote:
This article was a joke It makes sense if you assume that poor performance means lack of talent. Which is kind of an okay assumption. The article just neglected to consider that these people, while having poor performance, did not have any lack of talent in BW. They were just very new and hadn't gotten great results yet. If they sticked with BW they would probably eventually get them.
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sorry guys intrigue was right
forGG is the true elephant
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
All that training in France > Kespa training confirmed.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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It's so cool to remember this, hhahha how WRONG they are.
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EPT
