• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:36
CET 23:36
KST 07:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies1ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1817 users

The Elephant in the Room - Page 4

Forum Index > Final Edits
6514 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 324 325 326 Next
huameng
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States1133 Posts
May 12 2011 05:06 GMT
#61
Nada and July are a combined 3-13 vs Jaedong and Flash, for the record.

Thanks for the FE intrigue, I enjoyed it.
skating
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#62
Reading this article reminded me of what IdrA said recently. Something along the lines of, "I don't practice that much anymore". One of the top players in the game, and he doesn't even practice that much. We NEED better players, better practice schedules on just about every team, and overall just better competition. I don't want our top players to become bored with the game (like you said MVP mentioned).
#TeamBuLba
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-12 05:08:25
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#63
On May 12 2011 14:04 heyoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2011 13:59 Brad` wrote:
On May 12 2011 13:52 Zrana wrote:
You didn't mention NaDa or July as much as you should have. Both amazing at sc1 (capable of beating flash/JD at times iirc

LOL
no


I dunno man, Flash lost to Much the other day...

I love this piece!!!!


Considering this article is about sc2 this should be where I insert my protoss imba reply amrite? But seriously, I interpreted the comment as beating them in a boX which would never happen.
Jepsyn
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada364 Posts
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#64
Ive tried to watch Broodwar and in my opinion its like trying to watch a lame 8 bit version of SC2.
and im not some punk kid saying this either ive been around since Nintendo was New(born in 83) and well understand the concept of playability over graphics
but Starcraft 2 is a far better game...


User was temp banned for this post.
"Wonder what this game would be like if protoss units cost money" - IdrA
imPERSONater
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1324 Posts
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#65
Interesting read, definitely makes one think
Fan of: IdrA, Sen, Stephano, Snute, Axlav, Hero
Rylaji
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden580 Posts
May 12 2011 05:08 GMT
#66
Starting to get kinda old with these "Omg if player X or player Y switches over they are gonna fucking rock the Sc2 scene" arguments. Only way to find out is when and if they chose to switch over.

I mean I love Flash/Jaedong and BIsu just as much as the next guy, but I dont feel it's neccessary to put them on a pedistal before they even switched. We all know by know that alot of people still feel BW is higher skill and have better players. It's getting kinda burnt out as a discussion to be honest.

Still, well written even if I think it's an old topic.
Official Fan of; Obama oGs.MC // God of War ST.JulyZerg // d.Naniwa // ST.Squirtle // SlayerS_Alicia // Emperor SlayerS_BoxeR // EG.HuK // White-Ra // MarineKing.Prime.WE // oGs.NaDa's Body // SlayerS.MMA // MvP.DongRaeGu
DotADeMoN
Profile Joined June 2010
United States517 Posts
May 12 2011 05:08 GMT
#67
On May 12 2011 14:07 Jepsyn wrote:
Ive tried to watch Broodwar and in my opinion its like trying to watch a lame 8 bit version of SC2.
and im not some punk kid saying this either ive been around since Nintendo was New(born in 83) and well understand the concept of playability over graphics
but Starcraft 2 is a far better game...


What a joke. Why are you commenting on a game you know NOTHING about? In their current states, BW is the FAR more intricate game.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36388 Posts
May 12 2011 05:09 GMT
#68
Can we not turn this into BW vs SC2 please. Thanks!
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
May 12 2011 05:09 GMT
#69
You also neglect that the BW pros have years and years of strategy and mechanics tips and knowledge to draw upon, which does not exist yet in SC2. If what makes them amazing is they have years of knowledge and strats to draw upon, will they perform as well in sc2 as in broodwar? Maybe not. The people winning, are the people actively shaping the strategies and pushing the knowledge of the game. If the BW pros cannot do that, they won't really be pulling as much of their skill in as may be possible.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
The_Piper42
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States426 Posts
May 12 2011 05:09 GMT
#70
I enjoy watching both. I see no reason not to honestly. Even if the players playing SC2 right now are not as good as Flash or JD could be they still produce entertainment for me, the viewer.
Boxer, White-Ra, Grubby, Flash fighting!
Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#71
Also, I thought the real elephant in the room was that if they'd just swing the cameras around, there just aren't really that many people in the studio.
deathgod6
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States5064 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#72
I agree with everything. Especially during the beginning of GSL, the skill level of the games seemed so low compared to that of pro BW games. I'm sure someone with the multi-tasking of Bisu, Flash, or JD in SC2 would kill everyone.
4.0 GPA = A rank 5.0 GPA = Olympic --------- Bisu, Best, Fantasy. i ♥ oov. They can get in my BoxeR anyday.
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#73
Good read, I agree with all of your points. I think the main reason why failed pro-gamers switched over is because they want to have a pro-gaming career they never had.
:]
Zeri
Profile Joined March 2010
United States773 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#74
Great read. I really appreciate the work you put into this, Thanks!
You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#75
If we are to believe Tasteless and Artosis, these ex-Brood War pros were all “sick good” at that game, and imported it over to SC2.


myth = busted

im glad you addressed this

im not sure who actually believed they were really good at brood war tho
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#76
I still don't understand the point of this article.

Are you simply saying that the guys at the top of brood war would play better than the ones at the top of SC2?

Sure but isn't that obvious? Theere has been a huge time for the right way to be figured out. A very long time to find the amazing players.

Why the condescending tone to SC2 anyway? Maybe I'm missing something but this comment "This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games" seems really snobbish.

This article whilst interesting doesn't seem to be saying anything new.
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
DotADeMoN
Profile Joined June 2010
United States517 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#77
On May 12 2011 14:08 Rylaji wrote:
Starting to get kinda old with these "Omg if player X or player Y switches over they are gonna fucking rock the Sc2 scene" arguments. Only way to find out is when and if they chose to switch over.

I mean I love Flash/Jaedong and BIsu just as much as the next guy, but I dont feel it's neccessary to put them on a pedistal before they even switched. We all know by know that alot of people still feel BW is higher skill and have better players. It's getting kinda burnt out as a discussion to be honest.

Still, well written even if I think it's an old topic.


The argument being made is that the current level of play in SC2 is mediocre, even at the top, as evidenced by people who are bad at their game dominating the scene.
Wraith.978
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada37 Posts
May 12 2011 05:11 GMT
#78
On May 12 2011 14:08 FawkingGoomba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2011 14:07 Jepsyn wrote:
Ive tried to watch Broodwar and in my opinion its like trying to watch a lame 8 bit version of SC2.
and im not some punk kid saying this either ive been around since Nintendo was New(born in 83) and well understand the concept of playability over graphics
but Starcraft 2 is a far better game...


What a joke. Why are you commenting on a game you know NOTHING about? In their current states, BW is the FAR more intricate game.


To be fair, more intricate doesn't necessarily mean better.
Platinum Random. "Don't worry, that's just halo" -Huk
SiegeFlank
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States410 Posts
May 12 2011 05:12 GMT
#79
I really liked this article. I don't think it necessarily brought too much new to the table for someone who's witnessed the brood war competitive scene (other than the raw statistics), but I think that this article will be eye-opening for a lot of people that are new to SC2 and e-sports in general. But it's great that you took a lot of discussion points about the state of the competitive scene and presented it in such an organized way.

The one thing I disagree with though is calling the competitive scene a "farce." I understand that the game has an infinite amount of room to become more competitive so long as players like Flash and Jaedong exist, but a "farce" just sounds like too negative of a way to describe the competitive scene. That there are better players out there that have yet to join doesn't take away from a game's competitiveness. A significant amount (though not all) of the players that play really do have the dedication to the game that causes it to become so competitive in the first place, even if they're not the best.
Bird up
Utinni
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1196 Posts
May 12 2011 05:13 GMT
#80
If more pros come to the scene, it just means more people are going to be training harder and more, everyone will progress. People will adapt and everyone wins.

I still don't know how you can compare the games yet with more expansions coming up. This game is changing so much that strategies literally last a couple months until something new is hot.
“... you don’t have to be Sun freakin Tzu to know that real fighting isn’t about killing or even hurting the other guy, it’s about scaring him enough to call it a day.” - Max Brooks: World War Z
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 324 325 326 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 13h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1207
IndyStarCraft 218
SteadfastSC 209
StarCraft: Brood War
910 24
Yoon 18
Dota 2
syndereN1135
monkeys_forever273
NeuroSwarm65
League of Legends
C9.Mang0140
Counter-Strike
summit1g657
minikerr27
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu483
Other Games
Grubby6844
FrodaN2111
fl0m874
B2W.Neo321
ArmadaUGS104
QueenE99
Mew2King65
ZombieGrub37
Trikslyr34
Maynarde33
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 149
• EnkiAlexander 49
• Reevou 13
• davetesta8
• HeavenSC 7
• RyuSc2 4
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 66
• mYiSmile122
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1976
• Scarra943
• Shiphtur258
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
1d 13h
Gerald vs YoungYakov
Spirit vs MaNa
SHIN vs Percival
Creator vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.