• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:16
CEST 13:16
KST 20:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup5StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)67Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? Sagi.gg Launcher Released Bot on ladder BSL Season 23 BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9841 users

The Elephant in the Room - Page 4

Forum Index > Final Edits
6514 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 324 325 326 Next
huameng
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States1133 Posts
May 12 2011 05:06 GMT
#61
Nada and July are a combined 3-13 vs Jaedong and Flash, for the record.

Thanks for the FE intrigue, I enjoyed it.
skating
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#62
Reading this article reminded me of what IdrA said recently. Something along the lines of, "I don't practice that much anymore". One of the top players in the game, and he doesn't even practice that much. We NEED better players, better practice schedules on just about every team, and overall just better competition. I don't want our top players to become bored with the game (like you said MVP mentioned).
#TeamBuLba
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-12 05:08:25
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#63
On May 12 2011 14:04 heyoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2011 13:59 Brad` wrote:
On May 12 2011 13:52 Zrana wrote:
You didn't mention NaDa or July as much as you should have. Both amazing at sc1 (capable of beating flash/JD at times iirc

LOL
no


I dunno man, Flash lost to Much the other day...

I love this piece!!!!


Considering this article is about sc2 this should be where I insert my protoss imba reply amrite? But seriously, I interpreted the comment as beating them in a boX which would never happen.
Jepsyn
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada364 Posts
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#64
Ive tried to watch Broodwar and in my opinion its like trying to watch a lame 8 bit version of SC2.
and im not some punk kid saying this either ive been around since Nintendo was New(born in 83) and well understand the concept of playability over graphics
but Starcraft 2 is a far better game...


User was temp banned for this post.
"Wonder what this game would be like if protoss units cost money" - IdrA
imPERSONater
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1324 Posts
May 12 2011 05:07 GMT
#65
Interesting read, definitely makes one think
Fan of: IdrA, Sen, Stephano, Snute, Axlav, Hero
Rylaji
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden580 Posts
May 12 2011 05:08 GMT
#66
Starting to get kinda old with these "Omg if player X or player Y switches over they are gonna fucking rock the Sc2 scene" arguments. Only way to find out is when and if they chose to switch over.

I mean I love Flash/Jaedong and BIsu just as much as the next guy, but I dont feel it's neccessary to put them on a pedistal before they even switched. We all know by know that alot of people still feel BW is higher skill and have better players. It's getting kinda burnt out as a discussion to be honest.

Still, well written even if I think it's an old topic.
Official Fan of; Obama oGs.MC // God of War ST.JulyZerg // d.Naniwa // ST.Squirtle // SlayerS_Alicia // Emperor SlayerS_BoxeR // EG.HuK // White-Ra // MarineKing.Prime.WE // oGs.NaDa's Body // SlayerS.MMA // MvP.DongRaeGu
DotADeMoN
Profile Joined June 2010
United States517 Posts
May 12 2011 05:08 GMT
#67
On May 12 2011 14:07 Jepsyn wrote:
Ive tried to watch Broodwar and in my opinion its like trying to watch a lame 8 bit version of SC2.
and im not some punk kid saying this either ive been around since Nintendo was New(born in 83) and well understand the concept of playability over graphics
but Starcraft 2 is a far better game...


What a joke. Why are you commenting on a game you know NOTHING about? In their current states, BW is the FAR more intricate game.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
May 12 2011 05:09 GMT
#68
Can we not turn this into BW vs SC2 please. Thanks!
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
May 12 2011 05:09 GMT
#69
You also neglect that the BW pros have years and years of strategy and mechanics tips and knowledge to draw upon, which does not exist yet in SC2. If what makes them amazing is they have years of knowledge and strats to draw upon, will they perform as well in sc2 as in broodwar? Maybe not. The people winning, are the people actively shaping the strategies and pushing the knowledge of the game. If the BW pros cannot do that, they won't really be pulling as much of their skill in as may be possible.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
The_Piper42
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States426 Posts
May 12 2011 05:09 GMT
#70
I enjoy watching both. I see no reason not to honestly. Even if the players playing SC2 right now are not as good as Flash or JD could be they still produce entertainment for me, the viewer.
Boxer, White-Ra, Grubby, Flash fighting!
Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#71
Also, I thought the real elephant in the room was that if they'd just swing the cameras around, there just aren't really that many people in the studio.
deathgod6
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States5064 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#72
I agree with everything. Especially during the beginning of GSL, the skill level of the games seemed so low compared to that of pro BW games. I'm sure someone with the multi-tasking of Bisu, Flash, or JD in SC2 would kill everyone.
4.0 GPA = A rank 5.0 GPA = Olympic --------- Bisu, Best, Fantasy. i ♥ oov. They can get in my BoxeR anyday.
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#73
Good read, I agree with all of your points. I think the main reason why failed pro-gamers switched over is because they want to have a pro-gaming career they never had.
:]
Zeri
Profile Joined March 2010
United States773 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#74
Great read. I really appreciate the work you put into this, Thanks!
You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#75
If we are to believe Tasteless and Artosis, these ex-Brood War pros were all “sick good” at that game, and imported it over to SC2.


myth = busted

im glad you addressed this

im not sure who actually believed they were really good at brood war tho
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#76
I still don't understand the point of this article.

Are you simply saying that the guys at the top of brood war would play better than the ones at the top of SC2?

Sure but isn't that obvious? Theere has been a huge time for the right way to be figured out. A very long time to find the amazing players.

Why the condescending tone to SC2 anyway? Maybe I'm missing something but this comment "This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games" seems really snobbish.

This article whilst interesting doesn't seem to be saying anything new.
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
DotADeMoN
Profile Joined June 2010
United States517 Posts
May 12 2011 05:10 GMT
#77
On May 12 2011 14:08 Rylaji wrote:
Starting to get kinda old with these "Omg if player X or player Y switches over they are gonna fucking rock the Sc2 scene" arguments. Only way to find out is when and if they chose to switch over.

I mean I love Flash/Jaedong and BIsu just as much as the next guy, but I dont feel it's neccessary to put them on a pedistal before they even switched. We all know by know that alot of people still feel BW is higher skill and have better players. It's getting kinda burnt out as a discussion to be honest.

Still, well written even if I think it's an old topic.


The argument being made is that the current level of play in SC2 is mediocre, even at the top, as evidenced by people who are bad at their game dominating the scene.
Wraith.978
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada37 Posts
May 12 2011 05:11 GMT
#78
On May 12 2011 14:08 FawkingGoomba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2011 14:07 Jepsyn wrote:
Ive tried to watch Broodwar and in my opinion its like trying to watch a lame 8 bit version of SC2.
and im not some punk kid saying this either ive been around since Nintendo was New(born in 83) and well understand the concept of playability over graphics
but Starcraft 2 is a far better game...


What a joke. Why are you commenting on a game you know NOTHING about? In their current states, BW is the FAR more intricate game.


To be fair, more intricate doesn't necessarily mean better.
Platinum Random. "Don't worry, that's just halo" -Huk
SiegeFlank
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States410 Posts
May 12 2011 05:12 GMT
#79
I really liked this article. I don't think it necessarily brought too much new to the table for someone who's witnessed the brood war competitive scene (other than the raw statistics), but I think that this article will be eye-opening for a lot of people that are new to SC2 and e-sports in general. But it's great that you took a lot of discussion points about the state of the competitive scene and presented it in such an organized way.

The one thing I disagree with though is calling the competitive scene a "farce." I understand that the game has an infinite amount of room to become more competitive so long as players like Flash and Jaedong exist, but a "farce" just sounds like too negative of a way to describe the competitive scene. That there are better players out there that have yet to join doesn't take away from a game's competitiveness. A significant amount (though not all) of the players that play really do have the dedication to the game that causes it to become so competitive in the first place, even if they're not the best.
Bird up
Utinni
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1196 Posts
May 12 2011 05:13 GMT
#80
If more pros come to the scene, it just means more people are going to be training harder and more, everyone will progress. People will adapt and everyone wins.

I still don't know how you can compare the games yet with more expansions coming up. This game is changing so much that strategies literally last a couple months until something new is hot.
“... you don’t have to be Sun freakin Tzu to know that real fighting isn’t about killing or even hurting the other guy, it’s about scaring him enough to call it a day.” - Max Brooks: World War Z
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 324 325 326 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
INu's Battles
20:00
INu's Battles#21
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
IntoTheiNu 351
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19:00
Weekly #149 (SHIN Mod Edition)
Krystianer vs YoungYakovLIVE!
ByuN vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings153
CranKy Ducklings SOOP21
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 11735
Britney 7292
FanTaSy 2054
Hyuk 880
Horang2 595
BeSt 458
Stork 257
Pusan 254
EffOrt 132
Killer 130
[ Show more ]
Zeus 123
Last 121
Mind 109
sorry 69
Hyun 61
Mini 58
PianO 53
ggaemo 52
Snow 47
ToSsGirL 35
Bale 32
Hm[arnc] 27
JYJ 25
Aegong 17
Sea.KH 14
zelot 13
Sacsri 10
Noble 5
ajuk12(nOOB) 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe372
Counter-Strike
fl0m1582
byalli804
x6flipin255
Other Games
gofns27509
singsing2884
B2W.Neo472
ArmadaUGS84
Mew2King68
Livibee12
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick704
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream81
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 10
• FirePhoenix4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
3h 44m
MilkiCow vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
BSL Open Qualifier
7h 44m
BSL Open Qualifier
7h 44m
Replay Cast
11h 44m
Afreeca Starleague
22h 44m
Rush vs Light
WardiTV Weekly
23h 44m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 22h
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
1d 23h
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Copium Cup
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.