EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 6
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51190 Posts
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a9arnn
United States1537 Posts
I think BW is changing in the way things work with the My Starleague qualifiers and with new b.net attack; they're trying to involve the community more, and I think that right now, BW is still popular with the people. I could see some lower-level players switching, but PL regulars (like MVP's level), I'm not sure about that  . I guess time will tell. Thanks for the writeup, really interesting!! | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
i like how you explained the histories of the older bw players so clearly this is pretty much what I think as well  | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10381 Posts
Anyways, would also like to point out the sample sizes of some of the players are too small to say if they were good or not (considering they for some reason may not have had the fair chance to prove themselves in games). Also, fan of Jaedong Stork Flash <3 | ||
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Footler
United States560 Posts
However, while the article is well written and thought out. You're essentially just saying the generations of players are just going to continue to increase just like I'm sure BW would have if it's popularity wasn't on the decline. Even if no top BW players ever switched from here on out, a 'Flash' would emerge eventually as long as the games popularity remains. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
The only people who would dispute this are those who don't really follow the BW scene. It's the elephant in the room because many BW watchers don't care to bring this point up to avoid a flame war. Plus we do like seeing old BW legends and foreigners compete and we love them for a lot of what they accomplished in the past and we are hesitant to admit that they are over-the-hill or bad. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
On May 12 2011 13:52 Zrana wrote: You didn't mention NaDa or July as much as you should have. Both amazing at sc1 (capable of beating flash/JD at times iirc but not rocking SC2 as hard as you say they should) Different game, different skills. Mechanics mean slightly less, strategy slightly more. Sure some is transferable, but this really seems like more of the same tired old BW was better whine. You say that there are hundreds of players who could come in and dominate SC2 at any moment. Well why haven't they? There's nothing to stop them taking the GSL, TSL and NASL prize pools. More than enough incentive. The answer is that SC2 is still being figured out, and it takes a different sort of player to excel at a young game than a game where the rules have already been written. Also you imply that SC2 is invalid as a sport until we have some godllike figure like Flash. Was football invalid before Beckham, Formula 1 before Schumacher? No, they were still fun to watch. (well i dont like football but lots do) NaDa has taken a game from Jaedong in 07 Proleague before the Tyrant's reign. July took 2 from him in WCG 07 again before his dominance. Neither has ever taken a game from Flash, which makes sense since Flash doesn't lose. intrigue already noted the prosperous careers that top BW players enjoy. Considering this, switching to SC2 would be a poor financial decision for such players. All the SC2 prize pools in the world are probably not enough of a potential return on investment to warrant throwing away enormous, guaranteed salaries. | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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Jesushooves
Canada553 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Anyways, would also like to point out the sample sizes of some of the players are too small to say if they were good or not (considering they for some reason may not have had the fair chance to prove themselves in games). Also, fan of Jaedong Stork Flash <3 I think the fact that they don't get many games in the first place is enough argument. If you don't do well in practice, they're not going to send you out for games. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:18 Jibba wrote: I do think the article left out one thing, though. I've noticed that a lot of BW players have become slower in SC2, and make mistakes they didn't make in BW. I've mentioned it a few times, but it took July many months to start doing ling run bys to wrap around marines instead of just 1a'ing, even though he did it in BW all the time. Also watching VODs of Koreans and players like IdrA, they just don't play at the speed that they played BW. I know they'll say they've reached their mechanical limit, but they do still get behind and make mechanical mistakes midway into the game, plus SC2 moves faster than BW does. There are other actions that they could be doing, but they haven't gotten to that speed that they were at in BW. There definitely is a lower limit than there was in BW, but until people are scouting and controlling their units perfectly, then we haven't seen it. I'm not sure why it happens, though. I think this fits in with his section about why specific players are better. Intrigue discusses the differences in practice routines between sc1 and sc2 pros, and the differences in desires. I can't speak for him, but I bet Intrigue would say that sc2 is an easier game to be lazy in. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
Yes, the best RTS players tend to be good at RTSs, and most of them play Broodwar. How does this imply the competition is a farce, or that play people watch and find impressive or entertaining is somehow without merit? If anything, this is encouraging BW vs SC2, by slamming on the BW nostalgia goggles. Well... ok? | ||
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krazymunky
United States727 Posts
hoping the SlayerS team starts owning people. | ||
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Mashes
Canada441 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
MVP Nada SangHo MC/July MKP and other B teamers/Low A teamers theres a reason that this has pretty much translated over to SC2 with the exception of Sangho, who, to be fair, was on the worst team there was as an A teamer, estro. People kept making rumors of Effort's "retirement" as a sign of him moving to SC2 but he has no need, he was the 3rd best player when he retired and could come back on any team and grind his way back to victory... I had a discussion over skype with zIE, who the WC3 community know as a writer and commentator for the WC3 scene for ages, about how so many of the top players in TSL have been WC3 players. The discussion ended up going into how, among the foreigner community WC3 pros have been the ones innovating and inventing new and creative builds. We almost never see a foreign BW player come up with the new metagame builds and what have you, reason? It's quite simple. The foreigner BW community has NEVER been the ones innovating, they emulated and copied the korean BW players builds and reactions by watching their replays and games. What is prominent about foreign WC3 players is that they were near or at the top of the game, much closer to a top 5 position than any foreign BW player could ever say post 2003. While this game is still new, the WC3 players will still be the smartest and more innovative players, until the meta game becomes more "solved" as it is 11 years into BW's life. | ||
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
The good news is that the skill levels of SC2 competitors have nowhere to go but up. While there's no guarantee that current A-teamers will ever switch over, there's also no reason that a no-name up-and-comer in SC2 couldn't become the next Flash. Bonjwas have to start somewhere. Legends have come and gone in BW, and I don't see why that couldn't happen in SC2. So basically, at this point in time, I agree with the OP. I just think we shouldn't rule out the possibility of someone new to the SC scene existing who could match the talent of BW greats. Here's to hoping they start showing up soon! | ||
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
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kvn4444
1510 Posts
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