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westerners love drama and controversial personalities. Simple as that. It's really sad.
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On October 11 2012 07:22 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 07:17 Entirety wrote:
You can't pull out examples like that. There are many, many Rain fans who said "Rain will crush this noob, Mvp has no chance in hell." There are many, many Mvp fans who were very worried about Mvp's chances, saying "Mvp might actually lose this... Rain looks really strong."
Yes, there's a difference. Saying a player will win is not the same as saying other players are bad. There are people who do that... they don't say "Player X will lose." They say "Player X is terrible, doesn't belong in Code S."
For the most part, Mvp fans don't do that. I haven't really seen Mvp fans go around and say "Rain is terrible"... That's why I think Mvp's fans are supportive and nice. Well, they are just as bad. Everybody has bad fans. When you say "X will crush Y", you are implying Y is much worse than X. You cannot crush an opponent unless you assume he will play at a much lower level or that his playstyle puts him at an inherent disadvantage. I see a lot of Mvp fans who are supportive and nice but since he is so famous, he also has a lot of bad seeds and they can be extremely vocal at times.
I think you were so much behind Rain that you didn't actually catch what was going on. I have been supporting Mvp all along throughout this season without ever looking down on any player. When Mvp has qualified to the semi-finals against Rain, a ton of people started speaking about Rain crushing Mvp, stating that they could not see this pvt ever failing against anyone.
I was kinda surprised, because Mvp for me is the player that has the most interesting style of play from all the terran players and he always manages to top his opponents, often not with tricky play like people love to say but with straight up intelligent style (Remember the real Squirtle vs Mvp, not the 2rax that ended the serie. He was scouting better than anybody, using innovative TvP style and overall playing just great). People are just always in disbelief of Mvp because he doesn't win everything.
I feel a little bit offended when you say that Mvp's fans are more fans of the image of the player than his style of play, because it is for me the most entertaining of all. A ton of subtle moves that brings him the win, the knowledge of the timing push to a point where it is almost an art (you don't see any other player pulling SCVs like that to grab clutch wins), the intelligent mindgames to make his opponent head in the wrong direction. He is just overall the most complete player that I have ever seen play and that is the reason why I am and I've been since the first time I watched him a fan of his games.
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On October 11 2012 07:56 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 05:34 Kulijo wrote:On October 11 2012 05:19 Luepert wrote:
In the starcraft scene, you have to be either, obnoxious, controversial, or cute to get any recognition, simply winning twice as many tournaments as everyone else simply doesn't cut it.
You are somewhat right but you exaggerate. MC has roughly won the same amount as MVP but he has not twice the fanpages because of his personality. And MC does ALOT that can be talked about. MVP premiere medals: 8G 2S MC premiere medals: 4G 5S Yes he has a lot of medals, but statistically he has "half the winner" He makes finals but can't complete. From these stats we can see that MVP is superior. However, MVP fanclub pages: 225, MC pages: 386. More people still like MC than MVP. MC is "funny" because he makes threats, trash talks and dances on stage. What other reasons should there be for a less accomplished player to be more recognized by the community?
Personally I think It's partly because of MC's outgoing personality but also the fact that he is Protoss and for the longest time MC was the only Protoss player that could win consistently and place well for his race. With the rise of Rain, Seed, Squirtle, Creator, Parting, It's not true anymore but it was for a long time.
I mean, just look at the earnings. http://sc2earnings.com/?limit=50&race=protoss
1
Flag
Protoss
SK Gaming
Jang "MC" Min Chul
$339,368
2
Flag
Protoss
Team Liquid
Song "HerO" Hyun Deok
$76,184
Huge difference, Hero is also only champion of one tournament and not multiple.
Meanwhile, during Mvp's period of dominance from July to December 2011, Terran was the strongest and best performing race. Because of this MC, DRG and NesTea received more attention than him.
If you take a look back at this Fan Club in 2011, there were much fewer posts and less activity, he has a lot more fans nowadays and this fan club has come one of the most active ones instead of one of the most inactive considering how good the player is.
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On October 11 2012 08:17 ColtraneL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 07:22 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 11 2012 07:17 Entirety wrote:
You can't pull out examples like that. There are many, many Rain fans who said "Rain will crush this noob, Mvp has no chance in hell." There are many, many Mvp fans who were very worried about Mvp's chances, saying "Mvp might actually lose this... Rain looks really strong."
Yes, there's a difference. Saying a player will win is not the same as saying other players are bad. There are people who do that... they don't say "Player X will lose." They say "Player X is terrible, doesn't belong in Code S."
For the most part, Mvp fans don't do that. I haven't really seen Mvp fans go around and say "Rain is terrible"... That's why I think Mvp's fans are supportive and nice. Well, they are just as bad. Everybody has bad fans. When you say "X will crush Y", you are implying Y is much worse than X. You cannot crush an opponent unless you assume he will play at a much lower level or that his playstyle puts him at an inherent disadvantage. I see a lot of Mvp fans who are supportive and nice but since he is so famous, he also has a lot of bad seeds and they can be extremely vocal at times. I think you were so much behind Rain that you didn't actually catch what was going on. I have been supporting Mvp all along throughout this season without ever looking down on any player. When Mvp has qualified to the semi-finals against Rain, a ton of people started speaking about Rain crushing Mvp, stating that they could not see this pvt ever failing against anyone. I was kinda surprised, because Mvp for me is the player that has the most interesting style of play from all the terran players and he always manages to top his opponents, often not with tricky play like people love to say but with straight up intelligent style (Remember the real Squirtle vs Mvp, not the 2rax that ended the serie. He was scouting better than anybody, using innovative TvP style and overall playing just great). People are just always in disbelief of Mvp because he doesn't win everything. I feel a little bit offended when you say that Mvp's fans are more fans of the image of the player than his style of play, because it is for me the most entertaining of all. A ton of subtle moves that brings him the win, the knowledge of the timing push to a point where it is almost an art (you don't see any other player pulling SCVs like that to grab clutch wins), the intelligent mindgames to make his opponent head in the wrong direction. He is just overall the most complete player that I have ever seen play and that is the reason why I am and I've been since the first time I watched him a fan of his games.
Honestly, I can say that I'm a fan because of his personality. When I first saw his play, I was actually a fan of MC and NesTea. I was sort of impartial to Mvp, and he seemed like a faceless Terran to me. I decided I wanted to know the face behind the GSL championship, and that's what really got through to me.
Even now, I really support Mvp because he's awesome. Sometimes, he wins when he shouldn't win (the other player is more skilled), and other times, he loses when he should win (like vs. Naama... things like that make your heart hurt as a fan). Still, through it all, I'm a fan because Mvp tells me not to catch a cold.
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On October 11 2012 07:50 Entirety wrote:
Damn, really? I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. If you don't think he's a bonjwa, okay then. Cool.
Youre not even reading what I'm writing. I'm saying: if you don't want to be disrespectful, give it some TIME before calling ANYONE in SC2 a bonjwa. But, damn, talking to you is like talking to a stupid palm tree... Difficult being cheery when people are being arrogant a-holes.
anyways... Mvp rule!
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Regardless of anything, Mvp is the most consistent player in the world and his interviews really make my heart go out to the guy.
Even if MMA is my favorite terran, Mvp is definitely my second favorite. Good luck in the finals Mvp!
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Of course Mvp is the SC2 bonjwa.
The difference to SC1 is that you can't have such impressive killing spree cause things like multitasking, macro, micro, APM, build orders, don't give such an advantage as between SC1 players.
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On October 11 2012 08:04 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 07:56 Luepert wrote:On October 11 2012 05:34 Kulijo wrote:On October 11 2012 05:19 Luepert wrote:
In the starcraft scene, you have to be either, obnoxious, controversial, or cute to get any recognition, simply winning twice as many tournaments as everyone else simply doesn't cut it.
You are somewhat right but you exaggerate. MC has roughly won the same amount as MVP but he has not twice the fanpages because of his personality. And MC does ALOT that can be talked about. MVP premiere medals: 8G 2S MC premiere medals: 4G 5S Yes he has a lot of medals, but statistically he has "half the winner" He makes finals but can't complete. From these stats we can see that MVP is superior. However, MVP fanclub pages: 225, MC pages: 386. More people still like MC than MVP. MC is "funny" because he makes threats, trash talks and dances on stage. What other reasons should there be for a less accomplished player to be more recognized by the community? I agree, Mvp needs more pages in his fan club. Still, you have to consider that not everyone watches StarCraft 2 to see the best of the best. Some watch it for entertainment. You have to admit that MC is a showman at heart, a true entertainer. Whenever you watch him, you can't help but feel that you'll be entertained through his shenanigans. My personal favorite is his OSL ceremony. That's okay though, StarCraft 2 is not a popularity contest. When people ask who the best of all time is, no one will deny that Mvp holds that title.
Well it disheartens me how a dude creates a thread about how Rain would be the first SC2 bonjwa and it received less resistance than when I say MVP is a bonjwa in his own fanclub.
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On October 11 2012 08:24 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 08:17 ColtraneL wrote:On October 11 2012 07:22 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 11 2012 07:17 Entirety wrote:
You can't pull out examples like that. There are many, many Rain fans who said "Rain will crush this noob, Mvp has no chance in hell." There are many, many Mvp fans who were very worried about Mvp's chances, saying "Mvp might actually lose this... Rain looks really strong."
Yes, there's a difference. Saying a player will win is not the same as saying other players are bad. There are people who do that... they don't say "Player X will lose." They say "Player X is terrible, doesn't belong in Code S."
For the most part, Mvp fans don't do that. I haven't really seen Mvp fans go around and say "Rain is terrible"... That's why I think Mvp's fans are supportive and nice. Well, they are just as bad. Everybody has bad fans. When you say "X will crush Y", you are implying Y is much worse than X. You cannot crush an opponent unless you assume he will play at a much lower level or that his playstyle puts him at an inherent disadvantage. I see a lot of Mvp fans who are supportive and nice but since he is so famous, he also has a lot of bad seeds and they can be extremely vocal at times. I think you were so much behind Rain that you didn't actually catch what was going on. I have been supporting Mvp all along throughout this season without ever looking down on any player. When Mvp has qualified to the semi-finals against Rain, a ton of people started speaking about Rain crushing Mvp, stating that they could not see this pvt ever failing against anyone. I was kinda surprised, because Mvp for me is the player that has the most interesting style of play from all the terran players and he always manages to top his opponents, often not with tricky play like people love to say but with straight up intelligent style (Remember the real Squirtle vs Mvp, not the 2rax that ended the serie. He was scouting better than anybody, using innovative TvP style and overall playing just great). People are just always in disbelief of Mvp because he doesn't win everything. I feel a little bit offended when you say that Mvp's fans are more fans of the image of the player than his style of play, because it is for me the most entertaining of all. A ton of subtle moves that brings him the win, the knowledge of the timing push to a point where it is almost an art (you don't see any other player pulling SCVs like that to grab clutch wins), the intelligent mindgames to make his opponent head in the wrong direction. He is just overall the most complete player that I have ever seen play and that is the reason why I am and I've been since the first time I watched him a fan of his games. Honestly, I can say that I'm a fan because of his personality. When I first saw his play, I was actually a fan of MC and NesTea. I was sort of impartial to Mvp, and he seemed like a faceless Terran to me. I decided I wanted to know the face behind the GSL championship, and that's what really got through to me. Even now, I really support Mvp because he's awesome. Sometimes, he wins when he shouldn't win (the other player is more skilled), and other times, he loses when he should win (like vs. Naama... things like that make your heart hurt as a fan). Still, through it all, I'm a fan because Mvp tells me not to catch a cold.
For the record, two days after Mvp gave that interview, I got a cold... >.<
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On October 04 2012 06:55 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 09:29 Entirety wrote:
Mvp is the best player in the world at preparing for long series.
Here's proof:
In the GSL Ro8 and above (not including Blizzard Cup because that tournament had a weird format + didn't give much time for preparation), Mvp is 52-22 in games. That is a win percentage of 70.27%. If we apply this win percentage to the entire series (assuming his 70% win rate is true for each game of the set), he has a 84.05% chance of winning the series. Obviously, this 84% chance doesn't really mean anything at all, but it's reassuring knowledge.
The majority of his losses come from Bo1 and Bo3 series. When it gets to a Bo5, Mvp buckles up and simply does not lose.
In the GSL Ro8 and above, he has only lost to Leenock (2-3 loss in Ro4) and MMA (1-4 loss in the finals, but he won BlizzCon right after...). Every other time... he simply straight up won the entire thing. (By the way, this means that Mvp has NEVER lost in the Ro8!)
That's why Mvp will win this GSL too! Believe in the King! Make that 55-23, a win percentage of 70.51%. Mvp crushing the IM Killer! SYMBOL DOWN, RAIN NEXT! :D :D :D I'm soooooo giddy right now, it's unbelievable. Symbol was called the IM Killer, but conventional stuff doesn't work on Mvp. Remember the Champion's Curse/Runner-Up Curse? Mvp totally ignored that too. Mvp! Mvp! Mvp!
In the GSL Round of 8 and above, his win rate is 58-25, a win percentage of 69.88%.
The impressive thing is that his series win rate keeps going up because Mvp does not lose series!
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On October 11 2012 08:19 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 07:56 Luepert wrote:On October 11 2012 05:34 Kulijo wrote:On October 11 2012 05:19 Luepert wrote:
In the starcraft scene, you have to be either, obnoxious, controversial, or cute to get any recognition, simply winning twice as many tournaments as everyone else simply doesn't cut it.
You are somewhat right but you exaggerate. MC has roughly won the same amount as MVP but he has not twice the fanpages because of his personality. And MC does ALOT that can be talked about. MVP premiere medals: 8G 2S MC premiere medals: 4G 5S Yes he has a lot of medals, but statistically he has "half the winner" He makes finals but can't complete. From these stats we can see that MVP is superior. However, MVP fanclub pages: 225, MC pages: 386. More people still like MC than MVP. MC is "funny" because he makes threats, trash talks and dances on stage. What other reasons should there be for a less accomplished player to be more recognized by the community? Personally I think It's partly because of MC's outgoing personality but also the fact that he is Protoss and for the longest time MC was the only Protoss player that could win consistently and place well for his race. With the rise of Rain, Seed, Squirtle, Creator, Parting, It's not true anymore but it was for a long time. I mean, just look at the earnings. http://sc2earnings.com/?limit=50&race=protoss1 Flag Protoss SK Gaming Jang "MC" Min Chul $339,368 2 Flag Protoss Team Liquid Song "HerO" Hyun Deok $76,184 Huge difference, Hero is also only champion of one tournament and not multiple. Meanwhile, during Mvp's period of dominance from July to December 2011, Terran was the strongest and best performing race. Because of this MC, DRG and NesTea received more attention than him. If you take a look back at this Fan Club in 2011, there were much fewer posts and less activity, he has a lot more fans nowadays and this fan club has come one of the most active ones instead of one of the most inactive considering how good the player is.
That was part of the problem, Terran fans were divided between MVP, MMA, MKP, Puma, Bomber, Polt and Taeja while All of the tosses basically were behind MC so he received like 1/3 of the fans while MVP only got a part of the Terran praise.
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How ironic that Mvp ends up as the only Terran hope in the end.
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MVP! You are the best! Watched this series between work and avoided sleep for it because mvp!
Really looking forward to Life vs MVP. TvZ finals in GSL have had a pretty fantastic average.
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Life made Zerg completely imbalanced when smashing Taeja and MKP, but never doubt MVP 
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Some statistics for the GSL FINALS!
Mvp
TvZ Lifetime: 65.06%
TvZ 2012: 61.76%
TvZ (Last 10 Games): 70%
Life
ZvT Lifetime: 53.77%
ZvT 2012: 55.56%
ZvT (Last 10 Games): 80%
Head to Head Record: 0-0 (I couldn't find any games of Life vs. Mvp... I think Life has been stuck in Code A too long while Mvp was winning championships, so they have never met...)
+ Show Spoiler [The Mvp Advantage] +1st GSL January 2011
1st GSL World Championship
1st GSL August 2011
1st GSL Season 2 2012
2nd GSL October 2011
2nd GSL Season 4 2012
1st MLG Anaheim 2011
1st BlizzCon 2011
1st WCG Korea 2011
1st WCG 2011
1st IEM Cologne
1st Arena of Legends: Team Ace Invitational
1st Gainward SC2 Tournament
1st MLG Global Invitational Korea
2nd GeForce Pro/Am
3rd/4th Blizzard Cup
3rd/4th GSL November 2011
3rd/4th MLG Global Invitational
4th MLG Providence
From the Round of 8 and above in the GSL, Mvp sports a 58-25 record, a win percentage of 69.88%.
Surprisingly, the statistics are clearly favored in Mvp's favor this time around. He has higher win percentages and his TvZ form looks quite good recently, downright scary vs. Symbol. Of course, Life has shown that this season, he is greater than his statistics. His ZvT is incredibly scary, perhaps... the best ZvT in the world at this moment.
Of course, that's what they said about Rain's PvT. At this point, I think it's okay to say that Rain has been the toughest challenge for Mvp, so we're naturally relieved that Mvp was able to beat down Rain. A championship is extremely possible here, folks!
Never doubt Mvp.
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I think rather than calling Mvp Bonjwa, I'd rather dub him the Terran Guiding Star or The Lighthouse Terran. The fact that Mvp manages to get to the final while every single terran in the world cries imba against Z and P is astonishing. With how nerfed terrans are now, people still think we should be nerfed b/c of Mvp's play. This is comically ludicrous. Maybe instead of nerfing Terrans, Blizzard should auto nerf Mvp's army hp?
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sign a brother up.
gogo MVP, make this the best final ever.
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On October 11 2012 08:19 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 07:56 Luepert wrote:On October 11 2012 05:34 Kulijo wrote:On October 11 2012 05:19 Luepert wrote:
In the starcraft scene, you have to be either, obnoxious, controversial, or cute to get any recognition, simply winning twice as many tournaments as everyone else simply doesn't cut it.
You are somewhat right but you exaggerate. MC has roughly won the same amount as MVP but he has not twice the fanpages because of his personality. And MC does ALOT that can be talked about. MVP premiere medals: 8G 2S MC premiere medals: 4G 5S Yes he has a lot of medals, but statistically he has "half the winner" He makes finals but can't complete. From these stats we can see that MVP is superior. However, MVP fanclub pages: 225, MC pages: 386. More people still like MC than MVP. MC is "funny" because he makes threats, trash talks and dances on stage. What other reasons should there be for a less accomplished player to be more recognized by the community? Personally I think It's partly because of MC's outgoing personality but also the fact that he is Protoss and for the longest time MC was the only Protoss player that could win consistently and place well for his race. With the rise of Rain, Seed, Squirtle, Creator, Parting, It's not true anymore but it was for a long time. I mean, just look at the earnings. http://sc2earnings.com/?limit=50&race=protoss1 Flag Protoss SK Gaming Jang "MC" Min Chul $339,368 2 Flag Protoss Team Liquid Song "HerO" Hyun Deok $76,184 Huge difference, Hero is also only champion of one tournament and not multiple. Meanwhile, during Mvp's period of dominance from July to December 2011, Terran was the strongest and best performing race. Because of this MC, DRG and NesTea received more attention than him. If you take a look back at this Fan Club in 2011, there were much fewer posts and less activity, he has a lot more fans nowadays and this fan club has come one of the most active ones instead of one of the most inactive considering how good the player is.
Also, MC was one of the first korean pros to consistently go to Foreign tournaments starting at the beginning of 2011.
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 11 2012 15:17 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 08:19 Dodgin wrote:On October 11 2012 07:56 Luepert wrote:On October 11 2012 05:34 Kulijo wrote:On October 11 2012 05:19 Luepert wrote:
In the starcraft scene, you have to be either, obnoxious, controversial, or cute to get any recognition, simply winning twice as many tournaments as everyone else simply doesn't cut it.
You are somewhat right but you exaggerate. MC has roughly won the same amount as MVP but he has not twice the fanpages because of his personality. And MC does ALOT that can be talked about. MVP premiere medals: 8G 2S MC premiere medals: 4G 5S Yes he has a lot of medals, but statistically he has "half the winner" He makes finals but can't complete. From these stats we can see that MVP is superior. However, MVP fanclub pages: 225, MC pages: 386. More people still like MC than MVP. MC is "funny" because he makes threats, trash talks and dances on stage. What other reasons should there be for a less accomplished player to be more recognized by the community? Personally I think It's partly because of MC's outgoing personality but also the fact that he is Protoss and for the longest time MC was the only Protoss player that could win consistently and place well for his race. With the rise of Rain, Seed, Squirtle, Creator, Parting, It's not true anymore but it was for a long time. I mean, just look at the earnings. http://sc2earnings.com/?limit=50&race=protoss1 Flag Protoss SK Gaming Jang "MC" Min Chul $339,368 2 Flag Protoss Team Liquid Song "HerO" Hyun Deok $76,184 Huge difference, Hero is also only champion of one tournament and not multiple. Meanwhile, during Mvp's period of dominance from July to December 2011, Terran was the strongest and best performing race. Because of this MC, DRG and NesTea received more attention than him. If you take a look back at this Fan Club in 2011, there were much fewer posts and less activity, he has a lot more fans nowadays and this fan club has come one of the most active ones instead of one of the most inactive considering how good the player is. Also, MC was one of the first korean pros to consistently go to Foreign tournaments starting at the beginning of 2011.
Good ol MC vs Idra games, I believe that was his first MLG if I remember correctly.
also I cannot wait for Mvp vs Life, I hope for some epic play from mvp.
edit: yeah mlg columbus 2011
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On October 11 2012 04:47 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:44 redviper wrote:On October 11 2012 04:37 rysecake wrote:On October 11 2012 04:35 redviper wrote:On October 11 2012 04:23 rysecake wrote:On October 11 2012 04:15 redviper wrote:But how many times have we betted agaisnt the guy? We said naniwa would beat him, we said parting would beat him, we said rain would beat him. Who are these mythical "we". I haven't bet against mvp since his victory over mkp in the world championship finals. Even when he is down and looks broken, I know that he can pull out a win. A smart drop, a good run by, incredible patience, a cheese, a hidden base .. whatever it takes. That is what makes mvp a bonjwa in my eyes - you can never ever count him out. Not to mention that everytime there is a new innovation in the meta game for terrans, its mvp leading the way. Did you see how he single handedly changed TvZ at IEM? Now everyone does banshee, thor, tank, hellion. This "we" is the majority of TL in case you haven't noticed. Check the "head" vs "heart" votes for mvp vs rain. Mvp is the best palyer in sc2 so far and my favorite non kespa player. But I'm getting pretty sick of this bonjwa bullshit when 90% of the people using it don't even understand what the term means. Call him the king, call him the greatest sc2 player to date. All fine edit: well apparently there are more votes for mvp in "head" now than before the games. Fucking cheaters voting after the games so they don't look bad lol Your argument is faulty because you are generalizing based on a selective poll. Worse there is some weird shit going on with the defense of bonjwa. MVP is the bonjwa because you don't own the term. BW doesn't own the term. Why is that word so precious to you bw fans? MVP isn't just the king, he is the God. And he is the only bonjwa in SC2. If he wins this final even the general opinion will place him as a bonjwa. And we can all point out how we knew he was a bonjwa even before he won his fourth title. Oh also MVP is THE bonjwa. Not just a former bonjwa like all the old ones. haha k w.e you say buddy. I've been an mvp fan since he took a game off flash in 2010. I'm even the first person to sign up for this fanclub. But you're just fucking ridiculous lol. You can call him w.e you want. The korean community decides who becomes a bonjwa anyway, so I guess tastosis will let us know when he actually becomes one. cya later The way you throw around that title I feel awful for Jaedong. Someone who's accomplished 3x as much as mvp, and still isn't a bonjwa. What a poor fellow =( Really? Jaedong has won 12 GSLs? Damn thats really impressive. Yep. Wanna know what's even more impressive? That the majority of TL favored naniwa, parting, and rain to beat mvp. Man this guy sure seems invincible!
it doesent matter if they favoured amateur parting and naniwa when its so false
On October 11 2012 05:00 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 04:56 InoyouS2 wrote:On October 11 2012 04:47 rysecake wrote:On October 11 2012 04:44 redviper wrote:On October 11 2012 04:37 rysecake wrote:On October 11 2012 04:35 redviper wrote:On October 11 2012 04:23 rysecake wrote:On October 11 2012 04:15 redviper wrote:But how many times have we betted agaisnt the guy? We said naniwa would beat him, we said parting would beat him, we said rain would beat him. Who are these mythical "we". I haven't bet against mvp since his victory over mkp in the world championship finals. Even when he is down and looks broken, I know that he can pull out a win. A smart drop, a good run by, incredible patience, a cheese, a hidden base .. whatever it takes. That is what makes mvp a bonjwa in my eyes - you can never ever count him out. Not to mention that everytime there is a new innovation in the meta game for terrans, its mvp leading the way. Did you see how he single handedly changed TvZ at IEM? Now everyone does banshee, thor, tank, hellion. This "we" is the majority of TL in case you haven't noticed. Check the "head" vs "heart" votes for mvp vs rain. Mvp is the best palyer in sc2 so far and my favorite non kespa player. But I'm getting pretty sick of this bonjwa bullshit when 90% of the people using it don't even understand what the term means. Call him the king, call him the greatest sc2 player to date. All fine edit: well apparently there are more votes for mvp in "head" now than before the games. Fucking cheaters voting after the games so they don't look bad lol Your argument is faulty because you are generalizing based on a selective poll. Worse there is some weird shit going on with the defense of bonjwa. MVP is the bonjwa because you don't own the term. BW doesn't own the term. Why is that word so precious to you bw fans? MVP isn't just the king, he is the God. And he is the only bonjwa in SC2. If he wins this final even the general opinion will place him as a bonjwa. And we can all point out how we knew he was a bonjwa even before he won his fourth title. Oh also MVP is THE bonjwa. Not just a former bonjwa like all the old ones. haha k w.e you say buddy. I've been an mvp fan since he took a game off flash in 2010. I'm even the first person to sign up for this fanclub. But you're just fucking ridiculous lol. You can call him w.e you want. The korean community decides who becomes a bonjwa anyway, so I guess tastosis will let us know when he actually becomes one. cya later The way you throw around that title I feel awful for Jaedong. Someone who's accomplished 3x as much as mvp, and still isn't a bonjwa. What a poor fellow =( Really? Jaedong has won 12 GSLs? Damn thats really impressive. Yep. Wanna know what's even more impressive? That the majority of TL favored naniwa, parting, and rain to beat mvp. Man this guy sure seems invincible! edit: well from your history in this thread it seems like you've been trying to fight for mvp's bonjwa status since he won 3 championships (and right before he lost to mma the next season LOL). Keep fighting the good fight bro. I feel awful having to downplay mvp when he's my favorite gsl player. But god people like you are annoying Technically Mvp has had that 'aura of dominance' already, during 2011 he was HEAVILY favoured against anyone, and any loss was an upset. Just like BoxeR and NaDa were after their peaks, Mvp has peaked, is still very good, but has left behind that aura of dominance. The reason Jaedong wasn't a bonjwa was because Flash overshadowed him so much, it had nothing to do with his trophies, if Flash hadn't been playing he'd obviously be a bonjwa. where as mma topped mvp for a while, then fell off again.
he was never better in any way
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EPT
