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On July 14 2013 12:52 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 11:55 Sentenal wrote:
So you think shows like SAO, Code Geass R2, and SnK deserve their scores?
Look, even if you say that I have a "biased opinion" in thinking a show doesn't deserve its MAL score, the same exact thing can be said about each and every person who rates things on MAL. If you are saying lots of people's ratings matter more, then that is by definition an appeal to its popularity, or lack there of. Of course 2 people saying it's good is more valuable to me than one person saying it's good. Two people saying it's bad is more valuable to me than one person saying it's bad.
Not necessarily bro. WHAT IF TWO DUMB PEOPLE TOLD ME TO WATCH SOMETHING BUT A SMART GUY SAID OTHERWISE???!!! HMMM!?!?!?!?!
Also, on your Code Geass comment...yeah a bunch of people rated it to the point where it's close to a 9.0, but I feel like that's just a large group of people who don't watch that much anime period and just naturally fluctuate to shows like Code Geass as their go-to standard for amazing material. Also, in general, you're more likely to find people who rate shows highly than you are going to find people who just rate shows like garbage.
I actually had a rant about this elsewhere about this, but basically I said that all a show needs to do these days to skyrocket up to Code Geass status is:
1. Make it grimpderp
2. Give it a soundtrack that makes it sound like it's just every trailer song written by Two Steps from Hell or Immediate Music
3. Make a lot of gif-worthy moments
4. Give it a flair of comedy and either a cold female character, a hot chick, or a hilarious one that makes bombastic comments (or a mix of the three)
5. Give characters "depth" by making their past a more well-written derivative of a Naruto character
There's nothing particularly wrong about this, as shows like Code Geass and Shingeki no Kyojin aren't awful by my measures, and they're still fun to watch (well no...Shingeki is a snorefest), but I can't say much more than that about them.
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On July 14 2013 12:52 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 11:55 Sentenal wrote:
So you think shows like SAO, Code Geass R2, and SnK deserve their scores?
Look, even if you say that I have a "biased opinion" in thinking a show doesn't deserve its MAL score, the same exact thing can be said about each and every person who rates things on MAL. If you are saying lots of people's ratings matter more, then that is by definition an appeal to its popularity, or lack there of. Maybe if you were getting into an argument about quality of voice acting, quality of sound, quality of art, all sorts of objective ratings, fine you could do that. But that's not it.
Uhhhh the original argument was about quality of a show and that the mal score isn't an indicator of it (aka, the things you listed).
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On July 14 2013 13:05 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:52 Dark_Chill wrote:On July 14 2013 11:55 Sentenal wrote:
So you think shows like SAO, Code Geass R2, and SnK deserve their scores?
Look, even if you say that I have a "biased opinion" in thinking a show doesn't deserve its MAL score, the same exact thing can be said about each and every person who rates things on MAL. If you are saying lots of people's ratings matter more, then that is by definition an appeal to its popularity, or lack there of. Do I think shows like those deserve their scores? Nope. Do other people? Yes. What's so freaking hard to understand about this. Your opinion on a show is not the end all be all. Maybe if you were getting into an argument about quality of voice acting, quality of sound, quality of art, all sorts of objective ratings, fine you could do that. But that's not it. Mal measures enjoyment. Whether it be for reasons of fanservice, so bad it's good, unique plot/characters/setting, whatever. If people enjoyed it, then they give it a good mark. If lots of people enjoyed it, then it gets an overall good mark. This is actually getting really stupid. 216 789 people rated Code Geass and it got an score of 8.99. Are you seriously arguing that all of those people gave it a high rating because they were sheep who gave in to its reputation? Saying multiple ratings as a source is an appeal to its popularity is just wrong. It's using common sense. Of course 2 people saying it's good is more valuable to me than one person saying it's good. Two people saying it's bad is more valuable to me than one person saying it's bad. If they were the only three people who had watched it, would it be an appeal to its popularity trusting the two people over the one? People are different, and if multiple people like the same thing, that seems to me like I might like it too. Basically, no, your opinion on what's good and what's bad is not worth more than Mal. It is actually worth a lot less. The reason it's worth more here on TL is because most of the active posters know each other to some degree and value each other's opinions. If my friend who likes a lot of the same things as I do told me to watch something, I'd probably watch it. Holy shit, where did I say my opinion was the end all be all? You have a hard-on for Strawmen, don't you? My opinion is what it is. A bunch of other people's opinions are what they are. WHAT DOES ANY OF THAT HAVE TO DO WITH SOMETHING'S QUALITY???? Does me liking something make it better? Does a random guy liking something make it worse? Does a bunch of people hating something make that something worse? Does a bunch of people liking something make it better??? The answer to all of these questions are NO. In which case, when talking about how good something is (aka discussing its quality), what is the point of bringing it up??? There is no point. At all. Period. Additionally, I didn't say anything about those people being sheep, please don't put words into my mouth. You seem to like doing that. But I would say that of the 200k people who rated Code Geass R2 well are all shittaste plebs. But them being shittaste plebs has nothing to do with how good the anime actually is. What is so freaking hard to understand about this?
"So you think shows like SAO, Code Geass R2, and SnK deserve their scores?"
^ This? Unless you didn't phrase this correctly, this is saying that these shows don't deserve their scores. If you want, I can change it to this "Imo, shows like Sao, Code Geass, and Snk don't deserve their scores", and then I have no qualms with you.
I do however have qualms in saying that a bunch of people hating something or liking something means nothing. It creates several possibilities, one of which is that people found more enjoyment/or lack thereof in it on average than in other things. Since anime quality isn't objective, you're right in saying that many people liking something doesn't make it good. You're wrong in saying that it doesn't deserve the score it has.
On July 14 2013 13:05 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:52 Dark_Chill wrote:On July 14 2013 11:55 Sentenal wrote:
So you think shows like SAO, Code Geass R2, and SnK deserve their scores?
Look, even if you say that I have a "biased opinion" in thinking a show doesn't deserve its MAL score, the same exact thing can be said about each and every person who rates things on MAL. If you are saying lots of people's ratings matter more, then that is by definition an appeal to its popularity, or lack there of. Of course 2 people saying it's good is more valuable to me than one person saying it's good. Two people saying it's bad is more valuable to me than one person saying it's bad. Not necessarily bro. WHAT IF TWO DUMB PEOPLE TOLD ME TO WATCH SOMETHING BUT A SMART GUY SAID OTHERWISE???!!! HMMM!?!?!?!?! Also, on your Code Geass comment...yeah a bunch of people rated it to the point where it's close to a 9.0, but I feel like that's just a large group of people who don't watch that much anime period and just naturally fluctuate to shows like Code Geass as their go-to standard for amazing material. Also, in general, you're more likely to find people who rate shows highly than you are going to find people who just rate shows like garbage. I actually had a rant about this elsewhere about this, but basically I said that all a show needs to do these days to skyrocket up to Code Geass status is: 1. Make it grimpderp 2. Give it a soundtrack that makes it sound like it's just every trailer song written by Two Steps from Hell or Immediate Music 3. Make a lot of gif-worthy moments 4. Give it a flair of comedy and either a cold female character, a hot chick, or a hilarious one that makes bombastic comments (or a mix of the three) 5. Give characters "depth" by making their past a more well-written derivative of a Naruto character There's nothing particularly wrong about this, as shows like Code Geass and Shingeki no Kyojin aren't awful by my measures, and they're still fun to watch (well no...Shingeki is a snorefest), but I can't say much more than that about them.
I'm assuming that the three people in question were clones or such and each person's opinion was equal. So essentially 1+1>1.
It's possible that Code Geass was a really common anime and everyone picked it up, but doesn't that mean that before it was popular, people were given a reason to pick it up? And people rating shows highly should work for all shows, meaning that the inflation should be cancelled out across everything.
About Code Geass, it's possible, but at this point it's more or less trying to define what people on average like, which gets into a bit of a difficult area. Did make me laugh though, since I thought of how many anime this could be applied to.
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On July 14 2013 13:22 KazeHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:52 Dark_Chill wrote:On July 14 2013 11:55 Sentenal wrote:
So you think shows like SAO, Code Geass R2, and SnK deserve their scores?
Look, even if you say that I have a "biased opinion" in thinking a show doesn't deserve its MAL score, the same exact thing can be said about each and every person who rates things on MAL. If you are saying lots of people's ratings matter more, then that is by definition an appeal to its popularity, or lack there of. Maybe if you were getting into an argument about quality of voice acting, quality of sound, quality of art, all sorts of objective ratings, fine you could do that. But that's not it. Uhhhh the original argument was about quality of a show and that the mal score isn't an indicator of it (aka, the things you listed).
Quality of a show sounds like some objective term that doesn't exist in real life. How do you go about measuring the quality of a show? Unless you're talking about the completely objective things like the production quality and such, but even then some people say that sometimes a lower production value mixes with some types of anime well and gives them a fun feel.
Point is, I apologize if I've been arguing the wrong thing, but arguing over an objective rating that doesn't exist for any practical terms isn't going to go far.
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I mean....dude....if everyone's opinions were equally valid we wouldn't be having this conversation. =/
Sure, that could be true, and I don't fault people for liking something like Code Geass...because Code Geass is good so whatever. I think I'm just saying that when something that's clearly above average (maybe not the most phenomenal thing ever but still clearly better than the average stuff we see) and offers something interesting like CG, there's an opportunity for a show to not only be immensely popular, but also have immensely inflated scores. Take a look at Naruto for example; hugely popular, but has a massively divided fanbase, whereas for CG, I can imagine it being a lot less divided between people who love the show and people think it's the scum of the earth.
That's different from say...The Cowboy Bebops and the CGs and the FMA:Bs.
Yeah, it applies to a lot of anime, including ones I like. 
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What the fuck is even going on in this thread?
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I was asking him a question, trying to determine if he believes if MAL ratings directly correspond to their quality (which is what we were talking about). Meaning, if he thinks that MAL scores are more than gauging popular opinion. They "deserve" their score based on the metrics MAL uses to come up with them. But I disagree with the conclusion (the final rating) their methods ends up with.
I dunno, to me it seems obvious that when someone says something about what they think about something, that they are giving their opinion. That's why I rarely preface anything with 'IMO'.
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Btw Sent I can watch your replay now if you're still up for it.
Numerical ratings are hardly functional and have virtually no latitude, descriptive power, or granularity. Written review is simply a superior medium for the purpose of describing something.
MAL ratings are popular aggregates of numerical ratings, so they're essentially worthless, unless an individual cares especially about a show's ability to attract many high numbers.
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whys everyone like extremes so much. shit can be flawed without being awful/worthless
i guess it's entertaining though
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On July 14 2013 13:50 Jehct wrote:
whys everyone like extremes so much. shit can be flawed without being awful/worthless
BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT GOOD IT'S SHIT OBVIOUSLY.
I don't think people are extreme about this. I think certain popular shows do get a lot more flack than other places though...but in general I'd say most people here have their fair share of shows they'd just call "decent/pretty good/good"
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On July 14 2013 13:51 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 13:50 Jehct wrote:
whys everyone like extremes so much. shit can be flawed without being awful/worthless BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT GOOD IT'S SHIT OBVIOUSLY. I don't think people are extreme about this. I think certain popular shows do get a lot more flack than other places though...but in general I'd say most people here have their fair share of shows they'd just call "decent/pretty good/good"
That, or some people are only capable of thinking in extremes.
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On July 14 2013 13:54 nohbrows wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 13:51 Zergneedsfood wrote:On July 14 2013 13:50 Jehct wrote:
whys everyone like extremes so much. shit can be flawed without being awful/worthless BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT GOOD IT'S SHIT OBVIOUSLY. I don't think people are extreme about this. I think certain popular shows do get a lot more flack than other places though...but in general I'd say most people here have their fair share of shows they'd just call "decent/pretty good/good" That, or some people are only capable of thinking in extremes.
Yo, anime is an EXTREME hobby. Only the BEST OF THE BEST can watch anime like I do.
User was warned for this post
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On July 14 2013 13:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 13:54 nohbrows wrote:On July 14 2013 13:51 Zergneedsfood wrote:On July 14 2013 13:50 Jehct wrote:
whys everyone like extremes so much. shit can be flawed without being awful/worthless BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT GOOD IT'S SHIT OBVIOUSLY. I don't think people are extreme about this. I think certain popular shows do get a lot more flack than other places though...but in general I'd say most people here have their fair share of shows they'd just call "decent/pretty good/good" That, or some people are only capable of thinking in extremes. Yo, anime is an EXTREME hobby. Only the BEST OF THE BEST can watch anime like I do.
Get on my anime level.
User was warned for this post
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Eh, it's just response bias. If you don't have a strong opinion on something, you're less likely to talk about it.
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On July 14 2013 13:57 EchOne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 13:55 Zergneedsfood wrote:On July 14 2013 13:54 nohbrows wrote:On July 14 2013 13:51 Zergneedsfood wrote:On July 14 2013 13:50 Jehct wrote:
whys everyone like extremes so much. shit can be flawed without being awful/worthless BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT GOOD IT'S SHIT OBVIOUSLY. I don't think people are extreme about this. I think certain popular shows do get a lot more flack than other places though...but in general I'd say most people here have their fair share of shows they'd just call "decent/pretty good/good" That, or some people are only capable of thinking in extremes. Yo, anime is an EXTREME hobby. Only the BEST OF THE BEST can watch anime like I do. Get on my anime level.
Too hard. ;;
I'm still too pleb.
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This thread sometimes -.-
So I just got out of Pacific Rim. A bit off topic I know, but considering the obvious heavy mecha influence, for those of you who have seen it (or the promo materials I guess), how do you think the robot designs measure up? I know we have a handful of mecha snobs in here.
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So maybe Chrome Shelled Regios may make no sense, annoying characters who make no sense from episode to episode but it is the only Anime "plot" that i seem to get into of the too few Animes on Netflix. Wish there was more than two seasons.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Wha'? Felli is an amazing character (if you're watching it in Japanese anyway).
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I think its one of those animes that tried to compress a lot of material into a short two season thing so you end up going wtf by the end.
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I was going to ask for some recommendations, but this doesn't seem like a good time.
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EPT
