EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 705
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. | ||
|
Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
| ||
|
ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:30 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: I don't know but in regards to storytelling I feel like the Unsullied stuff was just too generic, foreseeable and simply too dumb/unrealistic, even in their world. I mean I just don't see how this Unsullied/Slave master can go for the trade. Much less so without any precautions at all. No "don't kill me with my army" deal or anything. He just takes a dragon at a leash that can more than obviously just rip him apart or burn him at will. He had basically blind faith into that deal which didn't suit his character at all. I mean obviously they went for the "he's so full of himself he won't realize shit" attitude but still, if I could tell that character something it would be "Are you really this fucking stupid?" Keep in mind that no one has ever purchased an entire Unsullied army before, which is why he laughs at her when she says she wants to buy them all. Unsullied are incredibly expensive, and his clients would usually purchase them a battalion at a time, leaving him with more than enough troops to defend himself from exactly what happened. The problem here is that she made him an offer he couldn't possibly refuse. Dragons were thought to be extinct from the world, and have demonstrated in the past that they are greater than any army. The fact that she hatched three and was willing to part with one was greater payment than anything he could have hoped for, and ultimately blinded him from the rather obvious result. Also keep in mind, as you can tell from the way he speaks to her, that these slavers hold very little regard for her in general, discounting her as a weak beggar woman with the great fortune of having her own dragons. I doubt they expected this level of cunning and brutality from her, even though it made the most sense. It makes sense to us that she would want to free the slaves and sack the city with her new army, but might not be so obvious to those who don't find slavery so repugnant. | ||
|
MajuGarzett
Canada635 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:30 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: I don't know but in regards to storytelling I feel like the Unsullied stuff was just too generic, foreseeable and simply too dumb/unrealistic, even in their world. I mean I just don't see how this Unsullied/Slave master can go for the trade. Much less so without any precautions at all. No "don't kill me with my army" deal or anything. He just takes a dragon at a leash that can more than obviously just rip him apart or burn him at will. He had basically blind faith into that deal which didn't suit his character at all. I mean obviously they went for the "he's so full of himself he won't realize shit" attitude but still, if I could tell that character something it would be "Are you really this fucking stupid?" It's likely that most of the people the guy sold unsullied to didn't care about his treatment of slaves and didn't want to destroy the source of the unsullied in case they needed to buy more. Also, I doubt anyone ever bought the whole stock at once leaving the slavers with no one to defend them. | ||
|
Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
That appears to be part of her power, that she is constantly underestimated. As soon as she handed him the dragon you could see he was realising his mistake, especially when she started speaking Valyrian. But by then it was too late. | ||
|
Doppelganger
488 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:30 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: I don't know but in regards to storytelling I feel like the Unsullied stuff was just too generic, foreseeable and simply too dumb/unrealistic, even in their world. I mean I just don't see how this Unsullied/Slave master can go for the trade. Much less so without any precautions at all. No "don't kill me with my army" deal or anything. He just takes a dragon at a leash that can more than obviously just rip him apart or burn him at will. He had basically blind faith into that deal which didn't suit his character at all. I mean obviously they went for the "he's so full of himself he won't realize shit" attitude but still, if I could tell that character something it would be "Are you really this fucking stupid?" Take it from his perspective: He has this one chance to get a Dragon. He can always retrain more Soldiers later. And why would she turn against him? It is obvious for us that she could and considering how the show is going likely would. However, she turned against him because he was a slaver and he could never see this coming because his culture is a slaver culture and from his attitude and the people around him a patriarchal slaver culture. He is greedy, underestimates her for being a woman and can't even fathom her motives because of her opposition to slavery. And to be honest even if we just say he is stupid then I have to say: there are a lot of dumb bastards and I could buy people being that stupid. | ||
|
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:43 ZasZ. wrote: Keep in mind that no one has ever purchased an entire Unsullied army before, which is why he laughs at her when she says she wants to buy them all. Unsullied are incredibly expensive, and his clients would usually purchase them a battalion at a time, leaving him with more than enough troops to defend himself from exactly what happened. The problem here is that she made him an offer he couldn't possibly refuse. Dragons were thought to be extinct from the world, and have demonstrated in the past that they are greater than any army. The fact that she hatched three and was willing to part with one was greater payment than anything he could have hoped for, and ultimately blinded him from the rather obvious result. Also keep in mind, as you can tell from the way he speaks to her, that these slavers hold very little regard for her in general, discounting her as a weak beggar woman with the great fortune of having her own dragons. I doubt they expected this level of cunning and brutality from her, even though it made the most sense. It makes sense to us that she would want to free the slaves and sack the city with her new army, but might not be so obvious to those who don't find slavery so repugnant. I dont know, people are doing a lot of mental gymanstics here to justify how truly dumb the slavers were. If her boat can buy her 100, that means 80 boats can buy their entire load. And we know for a fact that a place like Qarth alone has individual merchants with fleets that large. So surely someone else had the coin to buy an entire load. Which again goes back to the question of why wouldnt you be slightly cautious around her. The slavers were saturday morning cartoons bad guy evil, making them officially the dumbest bad guys in the show and miles ahead -- in stupidity -- of the already incredibly dumb iron born. | ||
|
CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
| ||
|
PardonYou
United States1360 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:38 Thor.Rush wrote: Daenerys gave me the biggest nerd chills in this episode. Even though it was in a fake language, she gave the best battle speech for a female in any television/movie. | ||
|
Emnjay808
United States10657 Posts
"You should try stopping him from doing what he likes." "I will." Tywin scenes are the best. This guy is on top of the game imo. | ||
|
Shelke14
Canada6655 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:01 Emnjay808 wrote: Tywin scenes are the best. This guy is on top of the game imo. I like the mental breakdown that we are slowly seeing from Cersei, she is starting to have to show her hand a lot quicker than she wanted to because she knows what the end result will be if she stays idle for too long. (Her being a non-factor). That plea to her father and telling him what Margaery is doing to Joffery is a last ditch effort to try and regain control.. Since it didn't work, we will have to see what she plans to do now. | ||
|
ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:52 Sub40APM wrote: I dont know, people are doing a lot of mental gymanstics here to justify how truly dumb the slavers were. If her boat can buy her 100, that means 80 boats can buy their entire load. And we know for a fact that a place like Qarth alone has individual merchants with fleets that large. So surely someone else had the coin to buy an entire load. Which again goes back to the question of why wouldnt you be slightly cautious around her. The slavers were saturday morning cartoons bad guy evil, making them officially the dumbest bad guys in the show and miles ahead -- in stupidity -- of the already incredibly dumb iron born. It's not mental gymnastics to try to see into each character's motives and worldviews. First I think it was 100 Unsullied for all three of her boats. Second, even though there may be people in the world who could afford that many Unsullied, they don't have her motives. What would a merchant lord of Qarth want with an army? They need food and lodging, and using them for their sole purpose, war, is bad for business. Most likely when people as wealthy as them buy Unsullied, it's as guards in small battalions/regiments, not entire armies. They weren't cautious around her because their patriarchal, slaver society regards her as a weak beggar woman, and it doesn't even enter into their heads that people could find slaving reprehensible by nature. These cities are a long way from Westeros and this is their culture. They underestimate Dany and they pay for it. It was shortsighted and unintelligent to do so, but I don't think it is an "immersion-breaking" stupidity that should make people say that the writing is bad. | ||
|
KainiT
Austria392 Posts
| ||
|
Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:58 CobaltBlu wrote: There is no way he could know, from his world view at least, that Dany hates slavers so much that she is going to order the city owners massacred and city razed. That was a pretty brutal move on her part. Most people who buy slaves do not have a problem with slaves, therefore they have no reason to attack the slaver. I doubt you'd expect someone to buy a sword from you and then immediately stab you with it, because what's the point? It's completely outside his expectations that an anti-slavery person would buy slaves and kill the slavers. We as viewers expect it because we know Danaerys, but nobody in-world has that information. To the slaver, she's a customer, not an enemy. The slavers make their living selling to customers. It stands to reason they don't often get theft attempts of this sort. If we saw a segment on the Mountain buying a sword, and then immediately killing the weaponsmith for his money back, you might say the weaponsmith was stupid for arming the Mountain - but he would have no way of knowing his customer is murderous in the way viewers would expect. | ||
|
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:52 Sub40APM wrote: I dont know, people are doing a lot of mental gymanstics here to justify how truly dumb the slavers were. If her boat can buy her 100, that means 80 boats can buy their entire load. And we know for a fact that a place like Qarth alone has individual merchants with fleets that large. So surely someone else had the coin to buy an entire load. Which again goes back to the question of why wouldnt you be slightly cautious around her. The slavers were saturday morning cartoons bad guy evil, making them officially the dumbest bad guys in the show and miles ahead -- in stupidity -- of the already incredibly dumb iron born. Not just boats for about 100 but everything she had from boats to gems to silk, which she had a lot of from quarth if i recall correctly | ||
|
PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:12 Shelke14 wrote: I like the mental breakdown that we are slowly seeing from Cersei, she is starting to have to show her hand a lot quicker than she wanted to because she knows what the end result will be if she stays idle for too long. (Her being a non-factor). That plea to her father and telling him what Margaery is doing to Joffery is a last ditch effort to try and regain control.. Since it didn't work, we will have to see what she plans to do now. It doesn't help the time she was in the most control, was when tyrion was around keeping things together. On April 23 2013 05:15 jinorazi wrote: Not just boats for about 100 but everything she had from boats to gems to silk, which she had a lot of from quarth if i recall correctly Don't forget all the loot she had from Qarth was from the "richest man in Qarth" if all his wealth that could fit onto 3 boats can only afford 100, i doubt anyone from Qarth could purchase 8000 let alone the thousands in training. | ||
|
Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:15 jinorazi wrote: Not just boats for about 100 but everything she had from boats to gems to silk, which she had a lot of from quarth if i recall correctly Her dothraki sacked Xaro's living quarters. She had quite a lot of valuables in her ship. Plus Unsullied are generally not used in armies, but as household guard. There are few mentions of Unsullied being used in large battles. Illyrio Mopatis' guard in Pentos is Unsullied (you can see them in S1E1 if you want, but S3 ones are cooler imo). Kraznys was taunted by greed and underestimated a woman, key point. He didn't know she spoke Valyrian, and he didn't speak the Common Tongue. Hell, even Jorah and Barry doubted her, just like Viserys, and just like the khalasar abandoned her and Drogo. Women are not supposed to lead in Essos or Westeros. | ||
|
eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EGgQXrs.jpg) And this complements it well... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7xa085w.gif) I couldn't keep these images out of my head when I finally watched the episode today. And Natalie Dormer is pretty damn cute. | ||
|
Don_Julio
2220 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:58 CobaltBlu wrote: There is no way he could know, from his world view at least, that Dany hates slavers so much that she is going to order the city owners massacred and city razed. That was a pretty brutal move on her part. Does she really hate slavery so much? She tolerated it as a Dohtrakian tradition at least. The slaver could at least expect her to not just give away a dragon. (That is what i feel was her main motive, the anti-slavery is just a noble side effect) Particularly after her suspicious questions. But I guess you guys are right that the slaver totally underestimates women and foreigners. | ||
|
Cinim
Denmark866 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:12 KainiT wrote: Even though the whole "I will just give you my army for some creature incredibely mighty creature I think I can control just because I am used to controling human slaves" was not really Game of Thrones worthy I had the biggest chills for like the complete last 3 minutes of the episode. That is enough for me to justify the whole thing, I just hope things will go back to be reasonable. They knew nothing of Dragon besides tales, it was just a small dragon so him believing he could tame a dragon shouldn't be too big of a deal, from his point of view, he only knows that some random girl mananged to tame a dragon, obviously he thinks he can exceed her results. I don't see anything unreasonable here honestly....... And the entire thing about the price of the unsullied. 100 was the amount of soliders for the boat 20 for the gold she has(and she didn't take everything she could in Qarth as some say, just what she needed) and 3 for the Dothraki, so 123 A dragon is considered to be worth way more than the assets needed to purchase a ship, also as said, a dragon is worth more than any army. Also you see that she doesn't pay with anything but the dragon, because that alone can pay for the soldiers with ease. | ||
|
Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:30 Don_Julio wrote: Does she really hate slavery so much? She tolerated it as a Dohtrakian tradition at least. The slaver could at least expect her to not just give away a dragon. (That is what i feel was her main motive, the anti-slavery is just a noble side effect) Particularly after her suspicious questions. But I guess you guys are right that the slaver totally underestimates women and foreigners. We understand the concept of the Dragons obeying her as their mother, and a Targaryen. To anyone else, their impression would be of trained beasts like any other. | ||
| ||
