On April 09 2013 08:09 Noro wrote: I have a question; can someone explain the point to the whole Sansa/Hound relationship? Like in 2.9 after the battle they had that conversation about the Hound leaving and his offer to take Sansa back to Winterfell, and then he just like upped and left and they didn't make any mention of it again. Was there a point to that that I'm missing?
If there's book stuff later with them I guess it makes sense but that scene just confused me since nothing came of it.
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
The Hound is a killer who lives for himself and solely for his own survival (notice when he walked out on the Battle of the Blackwater). Recognizing that he'd likely be handsomely rewarded for returning Sansa to Winterfell, he lobbied the idea of sneaking her home to both get out of King's Landing which he clearly resents (again notice when he says "Fuck the king." in S2E9) which didn't come to fruition when she said no. Sansa likely didn't trust him, and I think that's hugely logical considering who he is and the implications if she's caught. Does that answer it?
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
Yeah, Littlefinger's offer came in the next episode. But thinking back on it, she initially refused that as well. So I guess that makes sense.
The entire hound leaving thing never made any sense to me. No idea what his plan was after deserting. I can't imagine there are too many options open to him, at least not in the direction where he traveled.
On April 09 2013 08:09 Noro wrote: I have a question; can someone explain the point to the whole Sansa/Hound relationship? Like in 2.9 after the battle they had that conversation about the Hound leaving and his offer to take Sansa back to Winterfell, and then he just like upped and left and they didn't make any mention of it again. Was there a point to that that I'm missing?
If there's book stuff later with them I guess it makes sense but that scene just confused me since nothing came of it.
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
The Hound is a killer who lives for himself and solely for his own survival (notice when he walked out on the Battle of the Blackwater). Recognizing that he'd likely be handsomely rewarded for returning Sansa to Winterfell, he lobbied the idea of sneaking her home to both get out of King's Landing which he clearly resents (again notice when he says "Fuck the king." in S2E9) which didn't come to fruition when she said no. Sansa likely didn't trust him, and I think that's hugely logical considering who he is and the implications if she's caught. Does that answer it?
Yes, but he still left without Sansa. What could possibly have been his backup plan?
Well the Hound's main plan in the TV show was get away from the fires at King's Landing, which is what made him run in the first place. I doubt he was planning too much beyond that, and if he was, the show hasn't let us in on that plan.
@Karazax I think Tywin and Robb have fought a few battles against one another, what else had Tywin been doing while Tyrion held kings landing if not directing his troops against Robb?
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
Yeah, Littlefinger's offer came in the next episode. But thinking back on it, she initially refused that as well. So I guess that makes sense.
The entire hound leaving thing never made any sense to me. No idea what his plan was after deserting. I can't imagine there are too many options open to him, at least not in the direction where he traveled.
I dont think it was suppose to be rational. I think the reason was summed up pretty nicely when he was leaving. "Where will you go?" "Somewhere thats not on fire". I think he was just driven by his fear, thats all.
On April 09 2013 09:27 Dazed_Spy wrote: @Karazax I think Tywin and Robb have fought a few battles against one another, what else had Tywin been doing while Tyrion held kings landing if not directing his troops against Robb?
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
Yeah, Littlefinger's offer came in the next episode. But thinking back on it, she initially refused that as well. So I guess that makes sense.
The entire hound leaving thing never made any sense to me. No idea what his plan was after deserting. I can't imagine there are too many options open to him, at least not in the direction where he traveled.
I dont think it was suppose to be rational. I think the reason was summed up pretty nicely when he was leaving. "Where will you go?" "Somewhere thats not on fire". I think he was just driven by his fear, thats all.
There may have been a few minor skirmishes, but what Tywin was mainly doing at Harrenhal was just being prepared incase Rob made any sudden moves. It was a smart plan because he could feed his army off Tully lands (a.k.a less resources for Rob), attack Rob if he really needed to (which he didn't), or be able to reinforce KL quickly if needed (which is what ended up happening).
As for the Hound, he left mainly to escape the fire, and I think he just wanted to take Sansa with him just as insurance. It's not like he has many friends left after leaving the Lannisters, so "saving" Sansa might have been the only way for him to live without being on the run from every major force in Westeros.
hang on a sec, would littlefinger be attending cat's dad's funeral? because he grew up with them so maybe he's invited or something..if so i don't think he'll take sansa, he has too much of an obsession with her to just throw her away
On April 09 2013 09:42 FireMonkey wrote: hang on a sec, would littlefinger be attending cat's dad's funeral? because he grew up with them so maybe he's invited or something..if so i don't think he'll take sansa, he has too much of an obsession with her to just throw her away
To do so would renounce all of his allegiances to the Lannisters, including his recently rewarded Harrenhal. Doesn't seem like a logical move.
On April 09 2013 09:42 FireMonkey wrote: hang on a sec, would littlefinger be attending cat's dad's funeral? because he grew up with them so maybe he's invited or something..if so i don't think he'll take sansa, he has too much of an obsession with her to just throw her away
Its not likely considering he supports Joffrey for the throne. Also, Littlefinger's house is pretty minor so I doubt they would be invited.
On April 09 2013 09:27 Dazed_Spy wrote: @Karazax I think Tywin and Robb have fought a few battles against one another, what else had Tywin been doing while Tyrion held kings landing if not directing his troops against Robb.
I'm sure Tywin was indirectly sending his different officers places, but Robb was in the far west and Tywin was at Harrenhal until he left back to King's Landing. If you look at the map, you can see how far west The Crag which Robb captured last season, is from Harrenhal. Based on the map scale it is ~600 or more miles away. Tywin was also dealing with Riverrun and the Brotherhood without Banners, which is what they were torturing prisoners to find out about when Arya first got to Harrenhal right before Tywin arrived.
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
Yeah, Littlefinger's offer came in the next episode. But thinking back on it, she initially refused that as well. So I guess that makes sense.
The entire hound leaving thing never made any sense to me. No idea what his plan was after deserting. I can't imagine there are too many options open to him, at least not in the direction where he traveled.
Remember when he felt the heat from wildfire inferno he remember something from his childhood and freaked out*. He snapped, essentially.
* Littlefinger tells Sansa the story of The Tower and The Hound in season 1.
On April 09 2013 08:09 Noro wrote: I have a question; can someone explain the point to the whole Sansa/Hound relationship? Like in 2.9 after the battle they had that conversation about the Hound leaving and his offer to take Sansa back to Winterfell, and then he just like upped and left and they didn't make any mention of it again. Was there a point to that that I'm missing?
If there's book stuff later with them I guess it makes sense but that scene just confused me since nothing came of it.
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
The Hound is a killer who lives for himself and solely for his own survival (notice when he walked out on the Battle of the Blackwater). Recognizing that he'd likely be handsomely rewarded for returning Sansa to Winterfell, he lobbied the idea of sneaking her home to both get out of King's Landing which he clearly resents (again notice when he says "Fuck the king." in S2E9) which didn't come to fruition when she said no. Sansa likely didn't trust him, and I think that's hugely logical considering who he is and the implications if she's caught. Does that answer it?
Yeah I think it makes more sense now that I actually talked about it. After last episode I guess it's probably a good thing she didn't go with him, but in regards to Robb's strategy and the whole thing with Jaime, Sansa is really the biggest asset that the Lannister's hold, if they lose her it'll be interesting.
I'm getting close to catching up in the books, Kind of sad that I won't have as much of the suspense from the show anymore
On April 09 2013 08:09 Noro wrote: I have a question; can someone explain the point to the whole Sansa/Hound relationship? Like in 2.9 after the battle they had that conversation about the Hound leaving and his offer to take Sansa back to Winterfell, and then he just like upped and left and they didn't make any mention of it again. Was there a point to that that I'm missing?
If there's book stuff later with them I guess it makes sense but that scene just confused me since nothing came of it.
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
The Hound is a killer who lives for himself and solely for his own survival (notice when he walked out on the Battle of the Blackwater). Recognizing that he'd likely be handsomely rewarded for returning Sansa to Winterfell, he lobbied the idea of sneaking her home to both get out of King's Landing which he clearly resents (again notice when he says "Fuck the king." in S2E9) which didn't come to fruition when she said no. Sansa likely didn't trust him, and I think that's hugely logical considering who he is and the implications if she's caught. Does that answer it?
Yeah I think it makes more sense now that I actually talked about it. After last episode I guess it's probably a good thing she didn't go with him, but in regards to Robb's strategy and the whole thing with Jaime, Sansa is really the biggest asset that the Lannister's hold, if they lose her it'll be interesting.
I'm getting close to catching up in the books, Kind of sad that I won't have as much of the suspense from the show anymore
Eh, I always prefer to read books before seeing their respective movies because they're generally more in depth and enjoyable for me. Also, you won't be able to be blissfully ignorant of all of the spoilers that people idiotically post in this thread!. Enjoy being immune while you can!
Ah explaining the Sansa/Sandor relationship. Here we go. Sansa is the ultimate romantic. She believes in things like chivalric knights and noble ladies. Sandor is the ultimate cynic. A cynic is really just a frustrated romantic. The hound kept a rugged code of honor and chivalry, bristling at being compared to knights, who he had learned over the years kept no such code. He learned that the romantic notion of chivalry was just a cover for men who were nothing more than killers. He told Sansa that his father was a killer, his brother was a killer, her sons would be killers, the world was made by killers, so you had better get used to looking at them. He learned at the Battle of Blackwater that an oath of fealty means little more than pledging to die for a whiny brat hiding behind high walls and he wanted no more of it, so he walked away. He was drawn to Sansa because she was innocent, perhaps a reflection of the boy he was before the fire. What was he planning to do? Where was he going? He had no idea, but he knew he had to get as far away from King's Landing as possible.
I often think of Brienne as the knight that Sandor wishes he might have been if his life had turned out differently.
On April 09 2013 07:27 lord_nibbler wrote: I have a general question for book readers that should obviously only be answered in very broad terms without spoilers.
How much more 'magic' is coming up?
I get that the theme of the whole series is that supernatural things are slowly entering the story as 'the winter is coming up'. But how much of this transition have we seen yet?
Personally, I like the dragons, climate change and magic fire. I can tolerate 'ice zombies' and shape shifters as a plot device. But for example this new 'dream sharing' / 'fortune telling' stuff really turns me off.
Do I have to brace myself for a full out ice magic vs. fire sorcery fight in the future?
Magic is returning due to the return of dragons to the world. The Books have always maintained a "low magic" approach, it's present, but never really dominates the story. Between the dragons, winters that last years, Giants, ice zombies, shape shifters, the stuff Melisandre does, warging, and Bran's dreams, you've already been introduced to most of it.
On April 09 2013 08:21 karazax wrote: I don't think you missed anything TV wise regarding Sansa and the Hound. She didn't want to go with him when he left King's Landing and deserted Joffrey's service, and that was that. Perhaps she was scared of him, or perhaps she thought it was a trick by Joffrey trying to catch her being disloyal. Or perhaps she was just counting on Littlefinger rescuing her (though I don't remember if he had told Sansa he would rescue her yet or not).
Yeah, Littlefinger's offer came in the next episode. But thinking back on it, she initially refused that as well. So I guess that makes sense.
The entire hound leaving thing never made any sense to me. No idea what his plan was after deserting. I can't imagine there are too many options open to him, at least not in the direction where he traveled.
Remember when he felt the heat from wildfire inferno he remember something from his childhood and freaked out*. He snapped, essentially.
* Littlefinger tells Sansa the story of The Tower and The Hound in season 1.
Yes and if you haven't seen it, this is the audition the actor did for the Hound which keeps the original from the book set up where the Hound tells Sansa of how he got his face burned rather than Littlefinger:
EPT
