On June 25 2012 13:22 Gene wrote: But today it hit me, that on set a 10 year old boy was sucking some womans boob. I would assume fake, but still. If it was, it's still fucking weird as shit.
So in the process of making everyone four years older in the show so they could depict all the sex, they made something else more akward. Although I think Robin was 8 at the start, his birth doesn't coincide with any importent events like Dany's does so it's probably not consistant.
When I see people totally misunderstanding things in the show...
That is more or less exactly what a third thread is needed for, as some were asking for some time ago. Allow the use of book information to clarify events already passed in the show as comes up as useful for a couple topics almost every episode. This thread does not allow it and the other thread is spoiler city for anyone just watching the show. A middle ground would be great.
The show does at least partially explain things in nearly all cases, but it can be subtle to outright cryptic and/or rely on remembering a small line or other detail from a couple episodes back. Without more context, the books, things can't usually be "proven" when you try to clarify something as seen here.
why not just allow explanations from the books, but require them to be in a spoiler?
because this thread would end up looking like this
I have watched both seasons, so there are no TV spoilers here for me, but I am reading the books now, so I avoid the other GoT thread that has stuff from books. But there have been book spoilers in the last couple of pages of this thread now.
On July 02 2012 10:27 DMKraft wrote: I have watched both seasons, so there are no TV spoilers here for me, but I am reading the books now, so I avoid the other GoT thread that has stuff from books. But there have been book spoilers in the last couple of pages of this thread now.
So this is my first time posting in this thread. I finally just got to watch season 1 (Which is of course epic as all fuck), but I thought this might interest some of you as it did for me:
Lady Olenna Tyrell: Diana Rigg will be playing the the Queen of Thorns and grandmother of Margaery and Loras Tyrell. Bryndon Tully: Clive Russell will play the Blackfish, a famous knight and the uncle of Catelyn Stark. Jojen Reed: Former Nanny McPhee star Thomas Brodie-Sangster joins as a mysterious boy who becomes an important ally to Bran Stark. Beric Dondarrion: Richard Dormer plays the leader of the Brotherhood Without Banners, a band of vigilante outlaws. Tormund Giantsbane: Kristofer Hivju is playing famed wildling warrior and chief lieutenant to the King Beyond the Wall, Mance Rayder.
I am really excited even though I have not seen the second season yet. I can't wait.
On July 14 2012 08:51 TheAmazombie wrote: So this is my first time posting in this thread. I finally just got to watch season 1 (Which is of course epic as all fuck), but I thought this might interest some of you as it did for me:
Lady Olenna Tyrell: Diana Rigg will be playing the the Queen of Thorns and grandmother of Margaery and Loras Tyrell. Bryndon Tully: Clive Russell will play the Blackfish, a famous knight and the uncle of Catelyn Stark. Jojen Reed: Former Nanny McPhee star Thomas Brodie-Sangster joins as a mysterious boy who becomes an important ally to Bran Stark. Beric Dondarrion: Richard Dormer plays the leader of the Brotherhood Without Banners, a band of vigilante outlaws. Tormund Giantsbane: Kristofer Hivju is playing famed wildling warrior and chief lieutenant to the King Beyond the Wall, Mance Rayder.
I am really excited even though I have not seen the second season yet. I can't wait.
On July 16 2012 02:18 Snowbear wrote: I am kinda sad that khal drogo died. I wanted to see some more of his fighting skills...
I suppose it would have been boring if he lived cuz it would been like this: -Drogo gets boats -Drogo crosses the narrow sea -Drogo beats the 7 kingdoms -Drogo rapes Cersie -Drogo beats the Others -Drogo rapes the Others
On July 16 2012 02:18 Snowbear wrote: I am kinda sad that khal drogo died. I wanted to see some more of his fighting skills...
I suppose it would have been boring if he lived cuz it would been like this: -Drogo gets boats -Drogo crosses the narrow sea -Drogo beats the 7 kingdoms -Drogo rapes Cersie -Drogo beats the Others -Drogo rapes the Others
I actually hoped he would cross the sea, to see him and his tribe fight. The short scene where he fighted in already impressed in, and I want more :p!
It's actually khelesee's fault that he died: it's her intervention in the raping of those woman that made drogo fight that one guy that caused his wound .
First I really disliked drogo, but later I started to like him more and more.
Its presumptuous to think that Drogo and his khalasar could have taken over Westeros (even if they had somehow managed the logistics of transporting 40000 warriors + women/horses/equipment/etc). Assuming they all would have landed safely, he would have been considered a threat and probably would have taken some territory, but its unlikely that he would have been able to conquer much of Westeros.
The only chance Drogo and Dany would have had with such an invasion would be if they made an alliance with one or more great houses, and somehow I don't see too many houses allowing their kingdoms to willingly be pillaged and raped by savages.
More than likely, in the event where you could find enough ships to transport the entire khalasar at once (which is unlikely enough as it is), you will not be able to transport much of their horses. Also, you would lose some men and ships due to sickness and stormy seas. Before you can land, you also have to deal with Westerosi fleets, which at the very least would take a heavy toll on the khalasar transports as the Dothraki don't have the experience or talents for sea warfare. Assuming you manage to survive that and land your remaining forces, you are now stranded with little horses for your diminished army and little means of resupplying your numbers. It would only be a matter of time before their numbers become negligible.
Keep in mind also that the Dothraki are a nomadic society, they roam around, they don't hold down territories. Any territory they do manage to take they can't hold on to because they do not employ tactical siege mentality and bunker down in castles and fortresses along the way. They travel as a pack. In order to proceed into deeper territory they have to forgo their current territory.
On July 16 2012 02:50 moopie wrote: Its presumptuous to think that Drogo and his khalasar could have taken over Westeros (even if they had somehow managed the logistics of transporting 40000 warriors + women/horses/equipment/etc). Assuming they all would have landed safely, he would have certainly been considered a threat and probably would have taken some territory, but its unlikely that he would have been able to conquer much of Westeros.
The only chance Drogo and Dany would have had with such an invasion would be if they made an alliance with one or more great houses, and somehow I don't see too many houses allowing their kingdoms to willingly be pillaged and raped by savages.
More than likely, in the event where you could find enough ships to transport the entire khalasar at once (which is unlikely enough as it is), you will not be able to transport much of their horses. Also, you would lose some men and ships due to sickness and stormy seas. Before you can land, you also have to deal with Westerosi fleets, which at the very least would take a heavy toll on the khalasar transports as the Dothraki don't have the experience or talents for sea warfare. Assuming you manage to survive that and land your remaining forces, you are now stranded with little horses for your diminished army and little means of resupplying your numbers. It would only be a matter of time before their numbers become negligible.
Keep in mind also that the Dothraki are a nomadic society, they roam around, they don't hold down territories. Any territory they do manage to take they can't hold on to because they do not employ tactical siege mentality and bunker down in castles and fortresses along the way. They travel as a pack. In order to proceed into deeper territory they have to forgo their current territory.
I think you underestimate their chances.
First of all, you assume that the seven kingdoms would somehow unite in order to fight them off. Knowing what we do about how "united" the seven kingdoms are, I think its far more likely that the realm the Dothraki decide to land at will be left to fend for themselves while everyone else tends to their own borders. Also, since the Dothraki are seen as mere "savages," there is also the chance that many lords won't take an invasion seriously. They call it the "narrow sea" for a reason, I doubt they would have much time to mobilize before the Dothraki manage to land.
Second, they'd be dealing with 40,000 (less however many don't make the voyage) Dothraki screamers on horseback. I doubt even the seven kingdoms combined could field that many armored knights, the rest of their forces consist of militia men and peasants on foot. If anyone were stupid enough to engage them in the open field, they would be massacred. Hole up in their castles and the Dothraki rape and pillage the countryside. With winter coming, loss of any harvest is a rather huge blow.
Last season we saw how scarce food was becoming in King's Landing, and that was even before they were attacked by Stannis. Imagine the conditions and heightened sense of fear if people knew Dothraki were prowling the countryside within leagues of the walls.
True, they wouldn't be able to hold territories, but then again they wouldn't need to. Take what food and supplies they can find, burn and kill everything/everyone else, and move on to the next area, while the Westerosi starve to death in their castles. It wouldn't be long before some of the larger houses (probably Dorne or Highgarden) would be begging for an alliance, in which case the Dothraki are suddenly capable of sieging King's Landing.
Not to mention there is the possibility that if he had lived Daenerys still would have managed to hatch her Dragons, which would definitely give them the ability to siege King's Landing after they grow to a large enough size.
The Lannisters dodged a bigger bullet than they know when Khal Drogo died.
On July 16 2012 02:50 moopie wrote: Its presumptuous to think that Drogo and his khalasar could have taken over Westeros (even if they had somehow managed the logistics of transporting 40000 warriors + women/horses/equipment/etc). Assuming they all would have landed safely, he would have certainly been considered a threat and probably would have taken some territory, but its unlikely that he would have been able to conquer much of Westeros.
The only chance Drogo and Dany would have had with such an invasion would be if they made an alliance with one or more great houses, and somehow I don't see too many houses allowing their kingdoms to willingly be pillaged and raped by savages.
More than likely, in the event where you could find enough ships to transport the entire khalasar at once (which is unlikely enough as it is), you will not be able to transport much of their horses. Also, you would lose some men and ships due to sickness and stormy seas. Before you can land, you also have to deal with Westerosi fleets, which at the very least would take a heavy toll on the khalasar transports as the Dothraki don't have the experience or talents for sea warfare. Assuming you manage to survive that and land your remaining forces, you are now stranded with little horses for your diminished army and little means of resupplying your numbers. It would only be a matter of time before their numbers become negligible.
Keep in mind also that the Dothraki are a nomadic society, they roam around, they don't hold down territories. Any territory they do manage to take they can't hold on to because they do not employ tactical siege mentality and bunker down in castles and fortresses along the way. They travel as a pack. In order to proceed into deeper territory they have to forgo their current territory.
I think you underestimate their chances.
First of all, you assume that the seven kingdoms would somehow unite in order to fight them off. Knowing what we do about how "united" the seven kingdoms are, I think its far more likely that the realm the Dothraki decide to land at will be left to fend for themselves while everyone else tends to their own borders. Also, since the Dothraki are seen as mere "savages," there is also the chance that many lords won't take an invasion seriously. They call it the "narrow sea" for a reason, I doubt they would have much time to mobilize before the Dothraki manage to land.
Second, they'd be dealing with 40,000 (less however many don't make the voyage) Dothraki screamers on horseback. I doubt even the seven kingdoms combined could field that many armored knights, the rest of their forces consist of militia men and peasants on foot. If anyone were stupid enough to engage them in the open field, they would be massacred. Hole up in their castles and the Dothraki rape and pillage the countryside. With winter coming, loss of any harvest is a rather huge blow.
Last season we saw how scarce food was becoming in King's Landing, and that was even before they were attacked by Stannis. Imagine the conditions and heightened sense of fear if people knew Dothraki were prowling the countryside within leagues of the walls.
True, they wouldn't be able to hold territories, but then again they wouldn't need to. Take what food and supplies they can find, burn and kill everything/everyone else, and move on to the next area, while the Westerosi starve to death in their castles. It wouldn't be long before some of the larger houses (probably Dorne or Highgarden) would be begging for an alliance, in which case the Dothraki are suddenly capable of sieging King's Landing.
Not to mention there is the possibility that if he had lived Daenerys still would have managed to hatch her Dragons, which would definitely give them the ability to siege King's Landing after they grow to a large enough size.
The Lannisters dodged a bigger bullet than they know when Khal Drogo died.
Did you forget that Renly's army alone was 100,000?
On July 16 2012 02:50 moopie wrote: Its presumptuous to think that Drogo and his khalasar could have taken over Westeros (even if they had somehow managed the logistics of transporting 40000 warriors + women/horses/equipment/etc). Assuming they all would have landed safely, he would have certainly been considered a threat and probably would have taken some territory, but its unlikely that he would have been able to conquer much of Westeros.
The only chance Drogo and Dany would have had with such an invasion would be if they made an alliance with one or more great houses, and somehow I don't see too many houses allowing their kingdoms to willingly be pillaged and raped by savages.
More than likely, in the event where you could find enough ships to transport the entire khalasar at once (which is unlikely enough as it is), you will not be able to transport much of their horses. Also, you would lose some men and ships due to sickness and stormy seas. Before you can land, you also have to deal with Westerosi fleets, which at the very least would take a heavy toll on the khalasar transports as the Dothraki don't have the experience or talents for sea warfare. Assuming you manage to survive that and land your remaining forces, you are now stranded with little horses for your diminished army and little means of resupplying your numbers. It would only be a matter of time before their numbers become negligible.
Keep in mind also that the Dothraki are a nomadic society, they roam around, they don't hold down territories. Any territory they do manage to take they can't hold on to because they do not employ tactical siege mentality and bunker down in castles and fortresses along the way. They travel as a pack. In order to proceed into deeper territory they have to forgo their current territory.
I think you underestimate their chances.
First of all, you assume that the seven kingdoms would somehow unite in order to fight them off. Knowing what we do about how "united" the seven kingdoms are, I think its far more likely that the realm the Dothraki decide to land at will be left to fend for themselves while everyone else tends to their own borders. Also, since the Dothraki are seen as mere "savages," there is also the chance that many lords won't take an invasion seriously. They call it the "narrow sea" for a reason, I doubt they would have much time to mobilize before the Dothraki manage to land.
Second, they'd be dealing with 40,000 (less however many don't make the voyage) Dothraki screamers on horseback. I doubt even the seven kingdoms combined could field that many armored knights, the rest of their forces consist of militia men and peasants on foot. If anyone were stupid enough to engage them in the open field, they would be massacred. Hole up in their castles and the Dothraki rape and pillage the countryside. With winter coming, loss of any harvest is a rather huge blow.
Last season we saw how scarce food was becoming in King's Landing, and that was even before they were attacked by Stannis. Imagine the conditions and heightened sense of fear if people knew Dothraki were prowling the countryside within leagues of the walls.
True, they wouldn't be able to hold territories, but then again they wouldn't need to. Take what food and supplies they can find, burn and kill everything/everyone else, and move on to the next area, while the Westerosi starve to death in their castles. It wouldn't be long before some of the larger houses (probably Dorne or Highgarden) would be begging for an alliance, in which case the Dothraki are suddenly capable of sieging King's Landing.
Not to mention there is the possibility that if he had lived Daenerys still would have managed to hatch her Dragons, which would definitely give them the ability to siege King's Landing after they grow to a large enough size.
The Lannisters dodged a bigger bullet than they know when Khal Drogo died.
I have to agree with moopie on this. An army of 40,000 lightly armored dothraki screamers aren't really a threat to the major powers in westoros. I know Renly mentions that the Tyrell/stormland army is 100,000 and Tywin mentions that the Lannister army is 60,000. I believe Robb also mentions that his army is a bit less than 20,000.
Assuming that the Dothraki army can overcome the logistic issues with moving 40,000(mounted) troops plus baggage, there's no way they would have an element of surprise. The Lannisters had plenty of time to prepare for Stannis's fleet, which has less distance to travel and is undoubtedly smaller than the Dothraki fleet would be. In addition, Varys has plenty of informants in the free cities, so gathering a large fleet would be noticed immediately. My guess is the fleet would be intercepted before reaching Westeros or destroyed immediately before they can debark, since the Dothraki have no experience in fighting naval battles or staging a landing.
If they did manage to arrive intact in Westeros, they're limited to raiding undefended holdfasts and castles, but that becomes a nuisance at best. I don't think the Dothraki would be able to move very quickly, unless they left their baggage train behind. Their supplies likely come from living off the land, tributes, and raiding, which slows a march down considerably. On top of this, they are unfamiliar with the geography of westoros and have no experience moving over rough terrain(fording rivers, moving through mountainous terrain) based on what I've seen of their nomadic existence in the plains.
In a straight fight, the Dothraki would probably lose, even with a numbers advantage. Their force is less disciplined, poorly armed comparatively, and rely almost exclusively on cavalry. They're dealing with expert tacticians who understand the land and have the support of the people living in the lands being invaded.
At best, the Dothraki would just add a bit extra chaos to the ongoing war. I doubt their presence would even be cause for new alliances.
I think the main threat comes from a scenario where the Dothraki horde unites other Khalasars and conquers the lands and free cities across the narrow sea. Even then, with a considerable swell in military strength and resources, its still an uncertain conquest without collaborating with someone in Westeros to ensure that a naval landing proceeds smoothly and all the seven kingdoms don't unite to hurl out the foreign invader.
On July 16 2012 02:50 moopie wrote: Its presumptuous to think that Drogo and his khalasar could have taken over Westeros (even if they had somehow managed the logistics of transporting 40000 warriors + women/horses/equipment/etc). Assuming they all would have landed safely, he would have certainly been considered a threat and probably would have taken some territory, but its unlikely that he would have been able to conquer much of Westeros.
The only chance Drogo and Dany would have had with such an invasion would be if they made an alliance with one or more great houses, and somehow I don't see too many houses allowing their kingdoms to willingly be pillaged and raped by savages.
More than likely, in the event where you could find enough ships to transport the entire khalasar at once (which is unlikely enough as it is), you will not be able to transport much of their horses. Also, you would lose some men and ships due to sickness and stormy seas. Before you can land, you also have to deal with Westerosi fleets, which at the very least would take a heavy toll on the khalasar transports as the Dothraki don't have the experience or talents for sea warfare. Assuming you manage to survive that and land your remaining forces, you are now stranded with little horses for your diminished army and little means of resupplying your numbers. It would only be a matter of time before their numbers become negligible.
Keep in mind also that the Dothraki are a nomadic society, they roam around, they don't hold down territories. Any territory they do manage to take they can't hold on to because they do not employ tactical siege mentality and bunker down in castles and fortresses along the way. They travel as a pack. In order to proceed into deeper territory they have to forgo their current territory.
I think you underestimate their chances.
First of all, you assume that the seven kingdoms would somehow unite in order to fight them off. Knowing what we do about how "united" the seven kingdoms are, I think its far more likely that the realm the Dothraki decide to land at will be left to fend for themselves while everyone else tends to their own borders. Also, since the Dothraki are seen as mere "savages," there is also the chance that many lords won't take an invasion seriously. They call it the "narrow sea" for a reason, I doubt they would have much time to mobilize before the Dothraki manage to land.
Second, they'd be dealing with 40,000 (less however many don't make the voyage) Dothraki screamers on horseback. I doubt even the seven kingdoms combined could field that many armored knights, the rest of their forces consist of militia men and peasants on foot. If anyone were stupid enough to engage them in the open field, they would be massacred. Hole up in their castles and the Dothraki rape and pillage the countryside. With winter coming, loss of any harvest is a rather huge blow.
Last season we saw how scarce food was becoming in King's Landing, and that was even before they were attacked by Stannis. Imagine the conditions and heightened sense of fear if people knew Dothraki were prowling the countryside within leagues of the walls.
True, they wouldn't be able to hold territories, but then again they wouldn't need to. Take what food and supplies they can find, burn and kill everything/everyone else, and move on to the next area, while the Westerosi starve to death in their castles. It wouldn't be long before some of the larger houses (probably Dorne or Highgarden) would be begging for an alliance, in which case the Dothraki are suddenly capable of sieging King's Landing.
Not to mention there is the possibility that if he had lived Daenerys still would have managed to hatch her Dragons, which would definitely give them the ability to siege King's Landing after they grow to a large enough size.
The Lannisters dodged a bigger bullet than they know when Khal Drogo died.
Did you forget that Renly's army alone was 100,000?
He said knights, not peasants with rusty swords and men at arms.
The dothraki are excellent archers with the same reach as the westerosi longbows, so they just run around a bigger army and turn them into hedgehogs. There's no need for a direct engagement. They don't know much about siege warfare, so the lords could hide in their castles, but the crops and the 'people' are outside of the walls, so it wouldn't last very long anyway.
This is mentioned in the first season when they want to send assassins after Dany. Boom memory!
EPT
. 
