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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 06 2012 01:50 N3rV[Green] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 01:36 shizna wrote:
ppl are reading too deeply into the 'who burned winterfell' conspiracy.
it's not like every soldier from the north would die to save the starks or winterfell... what makes you think some of the northmen wouldn't think to spit on winterfell if they had half a chance?
there are very few 'honorable' people in westeros! You need to also remember who was sent out. The bastard from the Dreadfort, a Bolten. Ya know, those guys with the flayed man on their banner with the words "a flayed man has no secrets". These are not nice people, so it would make sense. Hell they could probably bring Theon back and tell Robb that the Winterfull was burnt before they got there. xD
But they had no reason to do so. Why would they get out of their way and make the effort of burning everything down, killing all villagers?
Not only that, if Robb ever hears of this, all of their families would be hanged for treason.
So why work so hard and take so many risks? Because they don't... really like the Starks? It doesn't make sense.
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On June 06 2012 04:14 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 04:11 Cel.erity wrote:On June 06 2012 03:59 Leporello wrote:
Cersei my new most hated character, hate her even more than her demon-spawn King.
Poor Sansa has been nothing but the model of congeniality and obedience. She took all the misery and garbage thrown at her, and didn't break.
And then Cersei just gives her that smug sneer after stealing away her Queenship... ohhhhh... I hate Cersei. She has no reason to dislike Sansa. Maybe it is in her best interest to marry Joffrey to someone else, but she just has to be a bitch about it. Hate her. Really? I didn't see the scene that way at all. She knew very well that Sansa had no desire to be Joffrey's queen, I think if anything, it was an act of sympathy towards her. That's an interesting take that I didn't consider... But it's not like Sansa is free (as Littlefinger so "kindly" reminded her). I guess we'll have to wait and see. Felt like a backstab to me, though. Considering all that Sansa has had to put up with, she might as well get a Queenship out of it. Guess we'll see how it plays out next season.
Sansa had a pretty big smirk on her face for a moment before Littlefinger interrupted her. She's def. thrilled to not be marrying Joffrey.
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Sansa is both happy and not about it. On one hand she doesn't marry a psycho and on the other she fears she has now absolutly no value and is still the daughter of a "traitor". She already has no ally, now that she is no longer betrothed to the king she is has no protection anymore.
As for Cersei, I think its pretty obvious she doesn't try to be nice or bad towards Sansa (its just a side effect that she enjoys). She just choses the best option for her and her children no matter who gets hurt (remember "Everyone else is the enemy" from one of the previous episode). Margaery happens to be the best option by far for her son.
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that dump from Tywin's horse was so symbolic. basically represented how much he cared about being subservient to his incompetent grandson.
On June 06 2012 05:36 rezoacken wrote:
Sansa is both happy and not about it. On one hand she doesn't marry a psycho and on the other she fears she has now absolutly no value and is still the daughter of a "traitor". She already has no ally, now that she is no longer betrothed to the king she is has no protection anymore.
her "protection" is that she is the sister of the King in the North. the lannisters still need her as a bargaining chip.
i'm not sure how well protected she would have been under joffrey anyways. he would probably find ways to conveniently get out of the marriage even if margaery didn't come along.
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On June 06 2012 04:04 Arthemesia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 03:59 Leporello wrote:
Cersei my new most hated character, hate her even more than her demon-spawn King.
Poor Sansa has been nothing but the model of congeniality and obedience. She took all the misery and garbage thrown at her, and didn't break.
And then Cersei just gives her that smug sneer after stealing away her Queenship... ohhhhh... I hate Cersei. She has no reason to dislike Sansa. Maybe it is in her best interest to marry Joffrey to someone else, but she just has to be a bitch about it. Hate her. After this episode my new least favorite is Jon Snow. I mean how annoying is it that he won't kill a girl who he has no connection to, but he'll kill his comrade without a second thought. I know that he was doing it to help him out but they wouldn't have ended up in that mess if it wasn't for him.
I think you missed the entire point of that sequence as Halfhand had staged it all the moment Jon was caught with him. Halfhand wanted him to kill him so that the wildlings would believe that Jon was a traitor to the Nights Watch, allowing Jon to get in close with them and spy.
If he didn't kill him they would have both died in vain. Qhorin Halfhand was a martyr.
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On June 06 2012 04:36 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 01:50 N3rV[Green] wrote:On June 06 2012 01:36 shizna wrote:
ppl are reading too deeply into the 'who burned winterfell' conspiracy.
it's not like every soldier from the north would die to save the starks or winterfell... what makes you think some of the northmen wouldn't think to spit on winterfell if they had half a chance?
there are very few 'honorable' people in westeros! You need to also remember who was sent out. The bastard from the Dreadfort, a Bolten. Ya know, those guys with the flayed man on their banner with the words "a flayed man has no secrets". These are not nice people, so it would make sense. Hell they could probably bring Theon back and tell Robb that the Winterfull was burnt before they got there. xD But they had no reason to do so. Why would they get out of their way and make the effort of burning everything down, killing all villagers? Not only that, if Robb ever hears of this, all of their families would be hanged for treason. So why work so hard and take so many risks? Because they don't... really like the Starks? It doesn't make sense.
What I got from Bolton dude was the looks every single time he was interrupted while talking to Rob about serious matters by his little girlfriend, every single time he had a sort of sly look on his face.
I have a feeling that Rob is going to be in a lot of trouble in season 3 but I'm sure those direwolves are gonna tear shit up, maybe they will do a "Rob at his lowest" at the end of season 3 and he will fight back in season 4 
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Half of the starks are incredible naive for whatever reason and I'm pretty sure Sansa is even worse than ned and cait in that part. I really think she thought she's free and did not realize what littlefinger told her later on.
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On June 06 2012 05:36 rezoacken wrote:
Sansa is both happy and not about it. On one hand she doesn't marry a psycho and on the other she fears she has now absolutly no value and is still the daughter of a "traitor". She already has no ally, now that she is no longer betrothed to the king she is has no protection anymore.
As for Cersei, I think its pretty obvious she doesn't try to be nice or bad towards Sansa (its just a side effect that she enjoys). She just choses the best option for her and her children no matter who gets hurt (remember "Everyone else is the enemy" from one of the previous episode). Margaery happens to be the best option by far for her son.
Cersei treats Sansa, not as her own child, but as someone who is aware that Sansa is her only hope of ever getting Jaime back. She doesn't act like a bitch to her but neither does she shower her with love and affection.
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Can I just say that I loooooove how the most enduring romances in GoT consist of:
1. A wincestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei, the golden twin children of Tywin Lannister. Just think how proud Tywin must be. He has three children, a dwarven freak and a set of twins that succumbed to the utmost perversity. And now, his grandson, is a psychotic, sadistic little megalomaniac shit. Truly, Tywin must look upon his own loins in wonderment every day.
2. An arranged marriage/rape/doggystyle of Daenerys by Khal Drogo, which then flowered into a beautiful love. For love, Daenerys ate a horse's heart and Khal Drogo let a scythe that had been used to dig through a pile of corpses slice his shoulder simply to look more bad ass in front of his ho.
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regarding the burning and sacking of Winterfell, obviously it must've been
TROGDOR!!!
(burninating the countryside, burninating the peasants, burninating the people in their thatch roofed cottages!)
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On June 05 2012 21:15 jeremysaint wrote:
it was just a poor episode. anticlimatic and some serious plot issues.
the iron islanders can just leave after buring down winterfell?!!?
the warlock who is immune to getting stabbed in the heart and apparently has magic powers is so stupid he lets himself get burned by baby dragons?!!?
daenerys and her handful of soldier/fighter/whatever people can just walk into the king of qarth's home where i guess he has no guards, employees, or defenses whatsoever?!!?
Iron islanders: They could have found the exit that was hinted that existed for the Starks. They no doubt were listening in on Theon.
Warlock: his powers were derived from the dragons. It's like the moon reflecting light from the sun. Obviously, the dragons themselves are far more powerful than him.
As for the raid on the King's home - they were already invited, Dothraky people, led by a woman with three dragons that just killed the warlock that executed the town council on his behalf... and killed his entire estate guard to make it seem plausible.
Not saying the episode didn't have problems, but hey, I thought it was good.
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don't forget tyrion and his heartwarming tale of melting the prostitute's cold heart. finding what he could have had with his first true love (if only, you know, he and his dad and a hundred guardsmen hadn't raped the shit out of her)
it's just like a crossover between Return to Me with David Duchovny and Pretty Woman. except with rape. and a dwarf. and more rape.
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On June 05 2012 06:21 FreudianTrip wrote:
Hey, this is kind of a book thing but I'm guessing the "book thread" means all of the books and I'd rather not walk into that area. However, I've read three of them, except technically only half of it, as in the UK they split the third book, "Storm of Swords" into 2 parts. And it's since been a while due to lack of funds but now I'm about to purchase the next one. I'm a bit fuzzy on what happened and wanting to catch up which left me wondering if someone could kindly help point towards a plot summariser that only spoils the first part?
I can't seem to find one.
Anyone?
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On June 06 2012 06:06 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Can I just say that I loooooove how the most enduring romances in GoT consist of:
1. A wincestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei, the golden twin children of Tywin Lannister. Just think how proud Tywin must be. He has three children, a dwarven freak and a set of twins that succumbed to the utmost perversity. And now, his grandson, is a psychotic, sadistic little megalomaniac shit. Truly, Tywin must look upon his own loins in wonderment every day.
2. An arranged marriage/rape/doggystyle of Daenerys by Khal Drogo, which then flowered into a beautiful love. For love, Daenerys ate a horse's heart and Khal Drogo let a scythe that had been used to dig through a pile of corpses slice his shoulder simply to look more bad ass in front of his ho.
Whoa, did I miss where they mentioned that Tywin knows about Jaime and Cersei's relationship? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know and regards Cersei and Jaime as his perfect little children, with only Tyrion being hated on. A lot.
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On June 06 2012 06:21 Barteh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:06 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Can I just say that I loooooove how the most enduring romances in GoT consist of:
1. A wincestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei, the golden twin children of Tywin Lannister. Just think how proud Tywin must be. He has three children, a dwarven freak and a set of twins that succumbed to the utmost perversity. And now, his grandson, is a psychotic, sadistic little megalomaniac shit. Truly, Tywin must look upon his own loins in wonderment every day.
2. An arranged marriage/rape/doggystyle of Daenerys by Khal Drogo, which then flowered into a beautiful love. For love, Daenerys ate a horse's heart and Khal Drogo let a scythe that had been used to dig through a pile of corpses slice his shoulder simply to look more bad ass in front of his ho.
Whoa, did I miss where they mentioned that Tywin knows about Jaime and Cersei's relationship? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know and regards Cersei and Jaime as his perfect little children, with only Tyrion being hated on. A lot.
I didnt think Tywin hated Tyrion, i thought he was quite embarrassed by him but i still had the feeling he loved him, he did after all make him the hand of the king and pretty much told him he would be running things in kings landing while he was at war.
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On June 06 2012 05:57 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:36 rezoacken wrote:
Sansa is both happy and not about it. On one hand she doesn't marry a psycho and on the other she fears she has now absolutly no value and is still the daughter of a "traitor". She already has no ally, now that she is no longer betrothed to the king she is has no protection anymore.
As for Cersei, I think its pretty obvious she doesn't try to be nice or bad towards Sansa (its just a side effect that she enjoys). She just choses the best option for her and her children no matter who gets hurt (remember "Everyone else is the enemy" from one of the previous episode). Margaery happens to be the best option by far for her son. Cersei treats Sansa, not as her own child, but as someone who is aware that Sansa is her only hope of ever getting Jaime back. She doesn't act like a bitch to her but neither does she shower her with love and affection.
She probably sees a lot of herself in Sansa, too. Her marriage, like hers, will be a nightmare.
This is more evident when she's drunk and she just talks ant talks to Sansa about how things will go. I believe she sympathizes as a queen and as a woman, without any softness though.
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On June 06 2012 06:27 Project Psycho wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:21 Barteh wrote:On June 06 2012 06:06 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Can I just say that I loooooove how the most enduring romances in GoT consist of:
1. A wincestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei, the golden twin children of Tywin Lannister. Just think how proud Tywin must be. He has three children, a dwarven freak and a set of twins that succumbed to the utmost perversity. And now, his grandson, is a psychotic, sadistic little megalomaniac shit. Truly, Tywin must look upon his own loins in wonderment every day.
2. An arranged marriage/rape/doggystyle of Daenerys by Khal Drogo, which then flowered into a beautiful love. For love, Daenerys ate a horse's heart and Khal Drogo let a scythe that had been used to dig through a pile of corpses slice his shoulder simply to look more bad ass in front of his ho.
Whoa, did I miss where they mentioned that Tywin knows about Jaime and Cersei's relationship? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know and regards Cersei and Jaime as his perfect little children, with only Tyrion being hated on. A lot. I didnt think Tywin hated Tyrion, i thought he was quite embarrassed by him but i still had the feeling he loved him, he did after all make him the hand of the king and pretty much told him he would be running things in kings landing while he was at war.
Pretty sure Tywin knows o_0. I mean, Cersei's already pretty much told Sansa and Tyrion on screen that her and Jaime were lovers. And at this point in the show, everyone knows her and Lancel have been doing the dirty. I highly doubt Tywin of all people is ignorant of his daughter's escapades.
And Tywin def hates Tyrion man. Tyrion's said so many fucked up stories about how his dad's treated him and look at how his dad treated him soon as he got to King's Landing. Def wouldn't do that to a son he loves.
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On June 06 2012 06:45 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 06:27 Project Psycho wrote:On June 06 2012 06:21 Barteh wrote:On June 06 2012 06:06 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Can I just say that I loooooove how the most enduring romances in GoT consist of:
1. A wincestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei, the golden twin children of Tywin Lannister. Just think how proud Tywin must be. He has three children, a dwarven freak and a set of twins that succumbed to the utmost perversity. And now, his grandson, is a psychotic, sadistic little megalomaniac shit. Truly, Tywin must look upon his own loins in wonderment every day.
2. An arranged marriage/rape/doggystyle of Daenerys by Khal Drogo, which then flowered into a beautiful love. For love, Daenerys ate a horse's heart and Khal Drogo let a scythe that had been used to dig through a pile of corpses slice his shoulder simply to look more bad ass in front of his ho.
Whoa, did I miss where they mentioned that Tywin knows about Jaime and Cersei's relationship? I'm pretty sure he doesn't know and regards Cersei and Jaime as his perfect little children, with only Tyrion being hated on. A lot. I didnt think Tywin hated Tyrion, i thought he was quite embarrassed by him but i still had the feeling he loved him, he did after all make him the hand of the king and pretty much told him he would be running things in kings landing while he was at war. Pretty sure Tywin knows o_0. I mean, Cersei's already pretty much told Sansa and Tyrion on screen that her and Jaime were lovers. And at this point in the show, everyone knows her and Lancel have been doing the dirty. I highly doubt Tywin of all people is ignorant of his daughter's escapades. And Tywin def hates Tyrion man. Tyrion's said so many fucked up stories about how his dad's treated him and look at how his dad treated him soon as he got to King's Landing. Def wouldn't do that to a son he loves.
There was no hint that Tywin knows, and I don't remember Cersei telling Sansa at least. Only Tyrion is in on that little secret, and he figured it out on his own previously. Oh, I don't think anyone outside of Tyrion knows about her and Lancel either. There's no way Jaime would let that slide.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
great season finale, can't wait for next season.
They better explain how stannis got freed. I thought he was going to be in a dungeon or something.
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Tywin doesn't know about Jaime and Cersei, he would be furious if he found out. Tywin has multiple times eluded to how the name of the family and its honor is what he holds highest in regard. He even frowns upon Tyrions open use of whores because he feels it casts a poor light on the Lannister name. Just because Varys and Tyrion, probably two of the most discerning characters in the show, knows about Cersei and Lancel, doesn't mean that everyone knows.
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EPT
