EPTThe invading army can just march north to fight an unstoppable horde of endless undead that comes with an event knows as the long night. Fight the literally end times and leave person that you brought two armies and 6 seasons of build up behind you. It will work out.
[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1684
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The invading army can just march north to fight an unstoppable horde of endless undead that comes with an event knows as the long night. Fight the literally end times and leave person that you brought two armies and 6 seasons of build up behind you. It will work out. | ||
KwarK
United States44190 Posts
On August 25 2017 11:56 Plansix wrote: The invading army can just march north to fight an unstoppable horde of endless undead that comes with an event knows as the long night. Fight the literally end times and leave person that you brought two armies and 6 seasons of build up behind you. It will work out. Cersei has less going for her than either of Dorne or the Reach. It's only through the absurd "we never were much good at fighting" that they get anything at all. Which doesn't even make any sense. She's just not a serious player after the Sept of Baelor. D+D seem to really want to make us think she is so they have a teleporting fleet led by some kind of cuckold fetish viking who knows that Cersei is banging her brother but that just makes him want her even more, plus Dorne and the Reach, who basically stayed out of the war of the five kings while Robb fucked up the Lannister army, appear to not actually have any armies anymore. But none of that makes sense. There is no explanation to be found in the preceding seasons for why Cersei would still be in charge, even if there were no Dany. D+D seem to really want us to believe that she's a threat but they've yet to show us why that would be a thing. Throw in plot devices like "we'll get gold so we can have mercenaries and we'll definitely win" leaving the viewer thinking "but didn't you just take the gold off of someone who decisively lost?" and it's just nonsense. | ||
|
InDaHouse
Sweden956 Posts
On August 25 2017 05:31 Plansix wrote: Here is the problem with mythical scray enemies you don’t understand: they don’t have motivation. Sauron worked because he was bodyless and is basically a fallen angel meant to pray on human weakness. Without more to the white walkers, they will continue to detract from the complexity of the show. They need motivation and to want things. There needs to be more to them than just the night king and death to humans. I really want there to be white walkers who don’t want to kill humans and just live in the north, being white walkers. I disagree. WW have more in common with Xenomorphs from Alien since they are both a bio-weapon only generating death. There is no purpose thats the whole point. Death always wins but the living must still fight it like Beric said. It would be really tacky if WW would have attributes about being self independent like you are suggesting. It reminds of old epidodes of Jean Luc Picard and the Enterprise making first contact with a unknown superior species. Federation always trying to get human rational logic to work on the whole universe but sometimes some species just say fuck u, we are going to destroy you for trespassing. | ||
|
Broetchenholer
Germany1964 Posts
| ||
|
Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
Instead, it would have been much more interesting if they had already got over the wall by now and were destroying and killing cities in the north. And we would see the scrambled northern armies hopelessly trying to defend them selves. The undead dragon could still be a thing, but it could occur later and wouldn't be the way to destroy the wall. That would be a lot more scary and also we would be desperate for the Lannisters to help participate in the fight against the Wild Walkers. With the current plot, it still doesn't feel like a "deseperate situation". Rather it feels like the easiest thing to do would be to just kill Cersei's army (which should be quite easy given the army assymetry) and after that destroy the Night Kings army. Further, given how easy it was for 7 strong men to hold the line against an endless amount of wights, I don't even see how they can threaten humanity. A 20k army size should easily defeat them. | ||
|
Laurens
Belgium4557 Posts
On August 25 2017 18:36 Hider wrote: Further, given how easy it was for 7 strong men to hold the line against an endless amount of wights, I don't even see how they can threaten humanity. A 20k army size should easily defeat them. Once the undead giants join in and the white walkers take part it'll be a bit harder. Though tbf Jon already killed 2 white walkers without breaking a sweat, the threat does seem manageable so far .. | ||
|
Acrofales
Spain18366 Posts
| ||
|
Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On August 25 2017 20:02 Acrofales wrote: It still kinda depends. Judging by Hardhome, the NK only really needs an initial army capable of killing a few of the opposing army, and protecting himself. As long as he has those two basic conditions covered, he should be able to raise the dead over and over and over until the opposing army is all dead (and has joined his own) or exhausted (and therefore soon to be dead). It's definitely going to take magic to fight magic. Well its all about perception right. We as viewers want the perception of them to be this huge deadly force that is going to kill everyone unless "something magnificent happens." And if they already were killing cities in the north and slowly moving closer and closer - while we still haven't solved the Kings Landing conflict - I think the threat would be a lot more real. That said I guess we will see that in S8 with Cersei getting mercenaries and still fighting the other, but that type of plot just feels a lot dumber. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
Laurens
Belgium4557 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:38 Hider wrote: That said I guess we will see that in S8 with Cersei getting mercenaries and still fighting the other, but that type of plot just feels a lot dumber. I'm hoping that this season ends with Jaime killing Cersei, but I have no idea how they would then fill the remaining 6 episodes next season. | ||
|
Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
Think about what you could have done instead: * Merge wight-mission with Hardhome. * Get Dany faster to Westeros * Get Arya faster out of Bravoos * Skip or shorten dumb religion plot in Kings Landing. It shouldn't have lasted more than 3-5 episodes imo. * Skip Dorne (or just change it). * Skip this weird shit with Tarly's siding with Lannisters for no reason and instead just let the Lannister get a mercenary army from the get-go. * Drop the whole plot about Lannisters having no money anymore. That just complicated the plot for no reason. * Merge Jon + Stannis vs Winterfell battle into one. Alot of the plot suffers from the writers trying to "fill out time" until Dany gets to Westeros - very little actually happens in terms of processing the plot. So unless you have completely different and new ideas to how the plot should be, I don't think you can argue that we should have more episodes. The fact that we see alot of teleportation is a different issue and more related to bad execution of overall plot. | ||
|
Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:42 Laurens wrote: I'm hoping that this season ends with Jaime killing Cersei, but I have no idea how they would then fill the remaining 6 episodes next season. Highly unlikely given the scenes with the Iron Bank and Cersei. Jamie killing cersei is delayed to next season. | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:49 Hider wrote: Highly unlikely given the scenes with the Iron Bank and Cersei. Jamie killing cersei is delayed to next season. Yeah, this season is probably ending with Cersei laying a trap against Dany and going full madness | ||
|
Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
| ||
|
Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
* Lannisters for w/e political reasons wants slavery to still exist because it indireclty helps them financially (find some way to make that work). * Tyrells has a different interest and sides with Dany --> This way we create the conflict between them and Cersei and sets up for the alliance later. * Faceless Men sends Arya to a mission to kill someone Dany cares about, e.g. what about killing Daario. This way we could get rid of him and surely they could make that a much more emotionel moment. Further, it would make the Arya plotline so much more interesting - given how much teleportation we see in this season, why would Arya have to be stuck in Braavos for 2 seasons? The slavery conflict can end with Dany either winning or losing. I actually think it would be much more interesting if she failed and lost alot of men in the process + city overrun. So she chooses to abandon her "new home" in order to return to Westeros. However, during the proces she has established alliances with Dorne, Iron Island and Tyrells and believes that they together can attack Westeros to get her revenge on Queen Cersei. But Cersei has already prepared at this point in time with a big mercenary army and has set up a lot of defenses. So instead they have to attack elsewhere, and that's where Tyrions suggestions comes "handy". So not only would this overall plot structure make Arya and Dany's more interesting and beliveable. It would also make Kings Landing politics alot better instead of this dumb religion stuff. | ||
|
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Personally i don't see the point in writing our own fanfiction here, the show could have been better by cutting stuff and it could have been better by adding things. Personally i am not someone who really cares a lot about the "plot advancing" in a rapid rate, i care more for the execution of things. Which is why this scene for example is still one of my favorite ones: But just to respond to a few points you made here: * Lannisters for w/e political reasons wants slavery to still exist because it indireclty helps them financially (find some way to make that work). * Tyrells has a different interest and sides with Dany --> This way we create the conflict between them and Cersei and sets up for the alliance later. How does this work with the alliance between Tyrells and Lannisters? * Faceless Men sends Arya to a mission to kill someone Dany cares about, e.g. what about killing Daario. This way we could get rid of him and surely they could make that a much more emotionel moment. So you want her to actually become a faceless man and become noone? I don't think she would get a huge mission otherwise. So not only would this overall plot structure make Arya and Dany's more interesting and beliveable. It would also make Kings Landing politics alot better instead of this dumb religion stuff. Why do you think the "religion stuff" was dumb? I think it could have been better executed but in general i like the plot idea. | ||
|
Acrofales
Spain18366 Posts
On August 25 2017 22:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: I will say it again, you can make any bullet points look decent, the tricky part is to develop it and connect it. Personally i don't see the point in writing our own fanfiction here, the show could have been better by cutting stuff and it could have been better by adding things. Personally i am not someone who really cares a lot about the "plot advancing" in a rapid rate, i care more for the execution of things. Which is why this scene for example is still one of my favorite ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXNC3Hc0gTo But just to respond to a few points you made here: How does this work with the alliance between Tyrells and Lannisters? So you want her to actually become a faceless man and become noone? I don't think she would get a huge mission otherwise. Why do you think the "religion stuff" was dumb? I think it could have been better executed but in general i like the plot idea. To be fair, you have read the books. And if Brienne's chapters do anything, it's to highlight the growing discontent among the commoners, and many finding their solace in religion with the massive rise of the sparrows. This was made FAR clearer in the books than on TV, where the high sparrow sorta came out of nowhere (although at least Lancel Lannister gave a decent "in" to the workings of the new, and far more radical, church). Also, the books have Kevan Lannister agitating about how terrible an idea it is to allow the church to become militant again, foreshadowing how that will turn against Cersei. So in general, the rise of power for the church is made far clearer and organic in the books. And although GRRM hasn't concluded that arc yet, the foreshadowing that Cersei will indeed blow up the entire Sept of Balor and everybody in it with wildfire is quite clearly there. | ||
|
Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
I will say it again, you can make any bullet points look decent, the tricky part is to develop it and connect it. How do you make the below Arya plotline appear interesting: * She is trained as a Faceless Assasin * She is ordered to kill someone with no relevance to the plot, but doesn't wanna do it. That's bascially what the plot was. And it's a million times more interesting if her plot instead was to kill Dario for instance. The whole point about my bullet point was how you connect the various plot lines. That doesn't mean the actual writing will be good, but it's so much easier to make it interesting when you care about the characters invovled. How does this work with the alliance between Tyrells and Lannisters? A million different ways you could take this angle, but you should pick the one that sets up in the most interesting way. The point is to replace this character arc with the religion-stuff, and obviously the alliance will gradually be broken this way. Cersei can still kill Margaery in the end of the season in different ways. So you want her to actually become a faceless man and become noone? I don't think she would get a huge mission otherwise. Well she was ordered to kill this woman in Bravoos. Just make it someone connected to Dany instead. Perhaps she could travel with Jgar (or how its spelled) and he could be the one ordered to kill him/her, and Arya would stop it. Anyway, I think you are misunderstanding my intention here. It is not to be superspecific, but instead just to show how you could connect the various plots to make them interesting. Because it's really hard to make the Mereen storyline or Braavos storyline good - when its completely isolated - regardless of the quality of the writing. In the mereen storyarch you never even see the "villains" discussing. IMO one of the things that made the westeros politics story good in S1-S4 is that you saw the perspective from all the characters. I would want that to be the case for mereen slavery as well. E.g. let's see Queen Cersei and Jamie discuss with the slave masters from yunkai and Astapor. Let's hear about them planning for the attack --> Hypes it up and makes the viewer interested in the story. And then make Dany LOSE big time! Make it a Ned stark/Red Wedding fiasco if possible, because there is no "plot armor" - she doesn't have to win to make the plot work, and generally she has been winning too much. | ||
|
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On August 25 2017 21:41 Plansix wrote: It also depends on what else the long night entails. Endless winter is almost worse than war. And if the night king can raise the not so recently dead. Now I'll be waiting for the Stark skeletons to emerge from their crypt.  With all this talk, I'm going to have to rewatch Hardhome. I think there's also something to be said for "fresh" wights being more dangerous than skeletons. That might help reconcile some of the difference between the first wight we see, and those from the last episode. I think however they're treated in Hardhome would be the deciding factor though. | ||
|
KwarK
United States44190 Posts
| ||
| ||
