On July 31 2017 21:47 Shock710 wrote: How does jamie order the march of a ton of lanister forces from castely rock all the way to highgarden with no one spotting it. Wasnt Rob's version on a smaller and closer scale.
Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden.
Euron fleet followed Unsullied fleet, taking the same route, destroys the ships. Dont see a problem there either.
You can still argue that Jamie should not be so quick to meet up with the army as he came from from KL that is a little farther away. But it it is still a rather mild case of teleporting since we dont know the time frame of anything.
On July 31 2017 21:02 Gorsameth wrote: I don't think Tyrions secret door undermines his character at all. He can build an amazing sewer system (and he eludes that he did in a conversation with Varys) while also building in a secret passage for himself. We know his disregard for his fathers orders when it comes to his vices of drink and whores.
Do we? So Tyrion just didn't give a shit what Tywin thought of him and halfassed everything? Feels like you're watching a different show to me.
I dont get your point at all. What is half-assed about having some secret passage added? Seems to me good forward thinking and totally what I would expect of Tyrion..
And I did not say there is anything on par in former seasons, I said it was far worse. Prime example was shadow baby to stop Renly which was classic deus ex machina and can also easily be argued to be out of character for Stannis. Robs decision to snub Frey and break his marriage promise. Makes even less sense in a time where all noble marriages are political and mistresses are common, even in peace time. This is just comparable things that turn the tides of war, of course there is much more when you dive into it.
I agree Greyscale healing was bs. But then again there have stuff like the Arya assassinations that require a way bigger suspension of disbelief.
I am mostly pissed that the show does not properly show it's plot anymore. There is essentially no world building anymore. The last episode was the death of the last remaining great house. Tyrell was supposed to have an army left that was maybe twice as big as Dornes and about 5-6 times the size of the Lannister alliance. They had 80k men at some point and they never actually lost men. The only battle they fought was the Battle of the Blackwater and they charged their heavy cavalry into the dying rest of Stannis' footmen with their back against the river. Now they side with Dany and they die off screen with no explanation whatsoever. Their power simply vanishes. Their is no mentioning of a siege, no losses are mentioned, nothing. We are simply presented with a cocky Jaime that tells the audience he did a brilliant tactical move and thats it.
This is essentially the same storytelling as replacing the whole episode 9 of season 3 "The rains of Castamere" aka the Red wedding with this:
I am not saying that the result is impossible, but it surely is convenient for the drama. Dorne might also not have a single man/woman standing in their army anymore. They might have all died on the ships. Can anyone tell? Or is their army on the boat with Gendry. I would have no problem with Dany+ making stupid decisions and losing the war due to it, it would be very welcome actually. But i want to understand the reasons for those mistakes. Robb did a mistake, the show version was ikmho much more unbelievable then the bookversion but still, he did a mistake, they showed the mistake and how it played out over several episodes. I don't understand your problem with the shadow baby. I mean sure, magic is op, but it's not the only instance of actual high magic in the show altering the plot. Surviving a pyre and hatching dragons anyone?
I also enjoyed it. But it feels out of place for me to discuss the show with people since the tone of this thread is to hate on everything that's happened this season. I don't really wanna talk about that stuff. I thought the only kinda meh stuff was between Dany and Jon. The rest of the episode I was happy with, best episode so far imo.
I think the shame of this season is that so many elements are in place to have political power struggles just like what made the first couple seasons great.
Dorne should be in a civil war with Doran loyalists trying to install person X as their leader against the usurping bastard women who took power. The old loyalists should be reaching out to the Iron Throne and Dany trying to play them against each other to obtain the best possible alliance offer to overthrow the Sand Snakes. The Sand Snakes should also go to Dany (but can't go to Cersei) and offer an alliance to defeat the loyalists and then join in against Cersei. This puts Dany in the middle of an interesting decision between the factions.
Highgarden should be in a crisis of succession. Olenna should be trying to promote a cousin while the Tarlys and Redwines should be pushing for their houses to take over, perhaps through marriage to a Tyrell distant cousin. Olenna could favor the Redwynes politically for succession and try to pacify Tarly by making him her military general. The 1 min conversation between Jamie and Tarly should have been a huge plot point and I think Tarly should have been convinced to ally with the Iron Throne and directly betray Olenna due to the invading horde. Possibly even letting the Lannister army into the castle and turning over Olenna himself. Perhaps the Redwynes could still ally with Dany and give her a strong fleet, but create a civil war in the Reach.
King's Landing, the stormlands and riverrun should be in chaos with riots. Cersei blew up the Vatican and all the Catholics say, "yeah, this is fine?" No, they riot. Dany may choose not to invade because she wants to be a good ruler and doesn't want to slaughter a ton of innocents. So instead, Tyrion and Varys use their contacts in King's Landing and strengthen them to try to overthrow Cersei. They could use Bronn as an agent in that.
Basically, everything south of the neck should be in civil war. There are so many opportunities for intrigue and backstabbing. Most of it involves actors talking in a room, so it's not like it's out of the budget. That's what made GoT great, not the CGI and combat choreography. Littlefinger could secretly offer his army to the highest bidder. Jon Snow could go around to each faction begging for help, but being rebuffed at every turn. And it all sets up for an invasion of the Others, who force the surviving northerners south. Finally giving Dany and her dragons a chance to shine and reunite the kingdom.
Boom, end of series with a Pyrrhic victory because they couldn't unite until the very end.
Yeah, I really dont see why they tried to condense this story line so much. A few more seasons to end the show properly rather than rushed two would of been preferable; if the writers are so tired of it, they should of resigned and let someone else take over, who could lead the show to conclusion properly. Everything gets summarized into just this high fantasy shallow mess.
Tie down the Actors? The most seen actors seem to have about ~3 hours of Screentime in total over all seasons.
Watching how this detoriates is just sad and its nothing like in Lost where the writers dug themselves a giant hole. There were plenty of possibilities to play this out in 2 seasons whiteout making everyone a teleporter/randomly supersmart/stupid and eraze entire houses/armies just because.
Interesting. I think this season, so far, is much better than season 5/6 and friends I talk to about GOT agree. Teleporting has been in the show from the very beginning and honestly it doesn't bother me at all.
I prefer this new pacing over the previous two seasons where most early episodes are just a snoozefest. The Tyrells losing a battle off-screen is no different than Robb defeating Jaime's army in season 2. We already got the siege of Riverrun last season, what would be the point of showing something nearly identical?
Yeah I don't think this thread is representative of how the show is seen in general in terms of quality. Among my friends (and we are all quite big fan of fantasy narrative / worlds) this season is very well liked. I think as always people who dislike something are more vocal. Also, criticizing something is "cool".
On August 02 2017 07:25 Dazed. wrote: I think the bringing together of ice and fire is nothing more than a trick. Jon is ice and fire, by being stark and targ. Danny is just fire, and increasingly obviously, madness.
I like your theory tbh, it would be unexpected :O but it does not explain why Jon is ice and FIRE? he did nothing special with fire yet
the lord of the light resurrected him
On August 02 2017 17:56 Velr wrote: Tie down the Actors? The most seen actors seem to have about ~3 hours of Screentime in total over all seasons.
Watching how this detoriates is just sad and its nothing like in Lost where the writers dug themselves a giant hole. There were plenty of possibilities to play this out in 2 seasons whiteout making everyone a teleporter/randomly supersmart/stupid and eraze entire houses/armies just because.
they're still tied down several months every year
i don't see how u can wrap this up in 2 seasons w/o getting some major houses out of the picture. you either ignore them or get rid of them, we all know that it comes down to jon/dany/white walker in the end and it would've been awesome to see the other families story more fleshed out, but it's just not possible in that time frame. even 1 season for white walkers beyond the wall doesn't seem like enough imo
On August 02 2017 18:11 Laurens wrote: Interesting. I think this season, so far, is much better than season 5/6 and friends I talk to about GOT agree. Teleporting has been in the show from the very beginning and honestly it doesn't bother me at all.
I prefer this new pacing over the previous two seasons where most early episodes are just a snoozefest. The Tyrells losing a battle off-screen is no different than Robb defeating Jaime's army in season 2. We already got the siege of Riverrun last season, what would be the point of showing something nearly identical?
The problem is when teleporting becomes a tactical advatnage that one of the sides can take advantage of it.
Previously it was mostly there to just keep the show runninger smoother or make it possible to have face-to-face conversations. However, the way it is used now GOT has become a superhero show.
On August 02 2017 18:11 Laurens wrote: Interesting. I think this season, so far, is much better than season 5/6 and friends I talk to about GOT agree. Teleporting has been in the show from the very beginning and honestly it doesn't bother me at all.
I prefer this new pacing over the previous two seasons where most early episodes are just a snoozefest. The Tyrells losing a battle off-screen is no different than Robb defeating Jaime's army in season 2. We already got the siege of Riverrun last season, what would be the point of showing something nearly identical?
oh gosh, it was a shitstorm with Riverrun indeed, but honestly they ruined those plot and also killed Blackfish. Just like any other previous plotline they don't wanna to proceed with - Gendry, Stannis, Blackfish, Edmur Tully. It's not like we hate everything now, but it is clear they are in hurry to finish the series, only two seasons left.
Just saw a theory that Missandei may be the informant for Cersei. The reasoning behind this is: Sir Davos asked about her accent and his facial expression seemed to not believe what she said, he further asked about the landscape to try to find out something. She layed down with greyworm the night before the casterly rock attack.
I didn't catch the davos doubtful facial expression, but imo she and varys are the ones that are under my radar.
On August 02 2017 18:11 Laurens wrote: Interesting. I think this season, so far, is much better than season 5/6 and friends I talk to about GOT agree. Teleporting has been in the show from the very beginning and honestly it doesn't bother me at all.
I prefer this new pacing over the previous two seasons where most early episodes are just a snoozefest. The Tyrells losing a battle off-screen is no different than Robb defeating Jaime's army in season 2. We already got the siege of Riverrun last season, what would be the point of showing something nearly identical?
I have to agree that the reason they skipped over the siege was that they did one last season. There are only so many ways to make that interesting. In general all my friends are enjoying the show and the brisker pace of things. Especially removing travel limbo that used to exist the last few seasons. The show is a little predictable right now, but that is hard to avoid seasons of build up, stage setting and rampant speculation. I think the shift in power dynamic between Littlefinger and Sansa interesting and I hope they expand on that further. I would love to see Sansa get him completely under her thumb.
On August 02 2017 21:58 Pontual wrote: Just saw a theory that Missandei may be the informant for Cersei. The reasoning behind this is: Sir Davos asked about her accent and his facial expression seemed to not believe what she said, he further asked about the landscape to try to find out something. She layed down with greyworm the night before the casterly rock attack.
I didn't catch the davos doubtful facial expression, but imo she and varys are the ones that are under my radar.
I don't believe Varys would be an informant for Cersei.. it would go against everything we know about his character and be very disappointing.
Why do you think there was an informant? I think they were just outmaneuvered.
Just realise what kind of a nonsense was a dialogue between Cersei and Iron Bank dude. They want to sell an idea that Bravos is interested in supporting slavery LOL. And how does Cersei knows about Braavos investments into prophets (I guess red priests at this point)?
And again, Bravos - interested - in - supporting - slavery. I'm impressed.
Totally deplorable, but not surprising at all. I think her whole angle was an attack on Dany and companies character to convince him not to invest in her while boasting and foreshadowing the events to come making herself sound more attractive. I'm just glad they didnt hand wave away the debt like so many pessimists assumed they would.
Okay but why would u invest into Cersei considering her current position (Queen of three kindoms, not seven) instead of investing into Dany? Even if we forget about Sun Spear, Reach, Stormlands and Ironborns, the whole North, Vale and possibly Riverlands got no reason to support Cersei, she's clearly not a favorite by any means.
EPT
