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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On August 02 2017 00:06 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 23:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Nobody is stopping you from making a post about that and if other people are interested in replying they will do so.
So pls, what do you want to discuss?
Right now people are simply disappointed that some things don't seem to make much sense. More like people not making sense while trying hard to find things that dont make sense. Not fun to read or argue at all.
So you think the criticism is invalid? There are no problems at all with how the show presents us the events?
I am not sure why people never want to argue about the shortcomings of their favorite entertainment, because you actually realize that it's worse than you think it is and you wouldn't notice/give a damn otherwise? That seems to be it if i had to guess.
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On August 02 2017 00:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2017 00:06 Redox wrote:On August 01 2017 23:49 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Nobody is stopping you from making a post about that and if other people are interested in replying they will do so.
So pls, what do you want to discuss?
Right now people are simply disappointed that some things don't seem to make much sense. More like people not making sense while trying hard to find things that dont make sense. Not fun to read or argue at all. So you think the criticism is invalid? There are no problems at all with how the show presents us the events? I am not sure why people never want to argue about the shortcomings of their favorite entertainment, because you actually realize that it's worse than you think it is and you wouldn't notice/give a damn otherwise? That seems to be it if i had to guess.
The way I see it people dislike that the plot is advancing too fast (which would be valid criticism) or in a direction they do not like or did not expect but then try to find reasons for how it makes no sense and try to nitpick the most stupid stuff.
All the while former seasons (and the books) had so much more irrational stuff going on.
But I argued some of that stuff before already and there is really no point to getting annoyed over this again.
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I wonder how the "Internet Directors" in this thread here ever played Starcraft. Hey, a Battlecruiser is only 5x the size of a marine, and moves at the same speed! I quit!
When I watched the ep I thought Euron wasn't with his fleet at Casterly Rock. Other than that, there must be at least about 1-2 months of time between ep2 and ep3 for Jon to travel to Dragonstone, so time for all the other stuff to happen too.
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So you think it makes a lot of sense that highgarden falls rather easily against the lannisters for example? (and olenna tyrell even has to voice over with something like "we never were good at fighting" to explain it)
What about Jorah and greyscale and the whole sam plotline. Just two examples which were pretty bad in my eyes.
Can you point to these irrational things in former seasons which is on par? (and books if you like)
I mean you simply state things as fact, but withotu examples and reasoning it's not worth a lot.
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On August 02 2017 00:37 aseq wrote:
I wonder how the "Internet Directors" in this thread here ever played Starcraft. Hey, a Battlecruiser is only 5x the size of a marine, and moves at the same speed! I quit!
When I watched the ep I thought Euron wasn't with his fleet at Casterly Rock. Other than that, there must be at least about 1-2 months of time between ep2 and ep3 for Jon to travel to Dragonstone, so time for all the other stuff to happen too.
I don't mind the minor inconsistencies, but a lot of the broad strokes have been really inconsistent with the existing character traits, too improbably lopsided in one direction, and somewhat improbable on top of everything else (Euron's impeccable fleet movements as a plot catch all). It's also just a shift in tone/style for the series; previously the viewer has generally been more knowledgable than individual characters in the show overall. Like there's plenty of surprises, but as a whole we've been viewing the entire plot with more information than the main characters because of the information we get from the other points of view. Or I guess another way, generally we know everything a main character knows as they know it. Season 7 really doesn't feel like that, Jaime and Euron know way more than we do and even as much as Jaime is a main character we're given no insight into his army.
The army battles this season have also relied really heavily on surprise. So far we've had 3 major battles (Euron's ship battle, Casterly Rock, and Highgarden) and each of them have relied on a total surprise twist, not for us as the viewers but for the characters in the battle. It strains the plot a bit imo. Like the sinking of ships at Casterly Rock was even just totally pointless, the Unsullied would be equally stranded even with their ships because of the dominance of Euron's fleet; there would be no way for them to sail back to Dragonstone anyways.
It's odd to me that people can't easily distinguish the difference between things that make no sense, but aren't plot relevant (like no hoods/hats being used up North, it makes no sense but it's obvious why it's done and it makes the show more enjoyable) and the inconsistencies that are more fundamental to the broad plot strokes.
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I would have been strategically fine with the attack on Casterly Rock if they had shown something that indicated King's Landing had been contained somehow. That would have made some level of sense: siege the capital so you can send your elite men along with a batallion or two on a covert mission to overthrow a castle on the other coast and sparsely occupy the villages in between so you can establish some regional control on the middle of the continent.
Such a containment would have caused some problems in the other part of the storyline though, considering the writers wanted Cersei/Jamie to take Highgarden. I'm not sure how that could have been justified. All in all, it was hard to suspend my disbelief at the way some of the things are unfolding ever since they went beyond the books, including the cure for the greyscale problem (assuming that's also beyond the story within the books - I haven't read them).
I don't care that they didn't show all the battles. They've never shown all the battles, and why would they, since there's so many of them. Surely they don't show all of the sex that people would be having in the whole breadth of the story either.
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I don't feel like I know enough about the greyscale cure to really judge it. Like it's a weird turn of events for Jorah where we don't really have an idea what's left for the character or his character growth so we need to wait and see how much sense him getting cured makes. It could either be the start of an interesting arc with the character or it could come across as a ridiculous change of mind for the purpose of the character (a "oops we shouldn't have given him greyscale" moment).
The actual procedure being adequate to cure greyscale is not too relevant for me, it's a pretty self contained plot point and it's reasonable to expect the citadel to have an obscure cure in their records somewhere (Greyscale doesn't seem too common in Westeroes).
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Sry I am gonna be a little lazy and just repeat some stuff.
about Lannister / Tarly surpsingly attacking Highgarden:
On July 31 2017 21:47 Shock710 wrote:
How does jamie order the march of a ton of lanister forces from castely rock all the way to highgarden with no one spotting it. Wasnt Rob's version on a smaller and closer scale.
Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden.
Euron fleet followed Unsullied fleet, taking the same route, destroys the ships. Dont see a problem there either.
You can still argue that Jamie should not be so quick to meet up with the army as he came from from KL that is a little farther away. But it it is still a rather mild case of teleporting since we dont know the time frame of anything.
about Tyrion's secret passage:
On August 01 2017 00:46 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 21:02 Gorsameth wrote:
I don't think Tyrions secret door undermines his character at all. He can build an amazing sewer system (and he eludes that he did in a conversation with Varys) while also building in a secret passage for himself.
We know his disregard for his fathers orders when it comes to his vices of drink and whores. Do we? So Tyrion just didn't give a shit what Tywin thought of him and halfassed everything? Feels like you're watching a different show to me.
I dont get your point at all. What is half-assed about having some secret passage added? Seems to me good forward thinking and totally what I would expect of Tyrion..
And I did not say there is anything on par in former seasons, I said it was far worse. Prime example was shadow baby to stop Renly which was classic deus ex machina and can also easily be argued to be out of character for Stannis. Robs decision to snub Frey and break his marriage promise. Makes even less sense in a time where all noble marriages are political and mistresses are common, even in peace time. This is just comparable things that turn the tides of war, of course there is much more when you dive into it.
I agree Greyscale healing was bs. But then again there have stuff like the Arya assassinations that require a way bigger suspension of disbelief.
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On August 02 2017 01:01 Logo wrote:
I don't feel like I know enough about the greyscale cure to really judge it. Like it's a weird turn of events for Jorah where we don't really have an idea what's left for the character or his character growth so we need to wait and see how much sense him getting cured makes. It could either be the start of an interesting arc with the character or it could come across as a ridiculous change of mind for the purpose of the character (a "oops we shouldn't have given him greyscale" moment).
The actual procedure being adequate to cure greyscale is not too relevant for me, it's a pretty self contained plot point and it's reasonable to expect the citadel to have an obscure cure in their records somewhere (Greyscale doesn't seem too common in Westeroes).
My problem with it is that it's just way too easy. They even described it as "I just followed the orders", i mean at that point you have to ask yourself why greyscale is a problem anywhere.
Also Sam finding all the important things right now is a nice coincidence, and i am sure there will be more still :/
About Highgarden: My problem is more that they even were able to take it so easily tbh. We just have to buy it, but in the context of soldier numbers, etc it doesn't seem to make any sense. As i stated, they even made Olena say: "we were never good at fighting" to make up for it, like cmon really?
The truth is that it's written like that because Dany was too powerful, not because it would happen like that given the status quo.
You could also question how Euron manages to know about all the movements of dany but her army doesn't know shit (which is weird because to get to kingslanding euron had to cross dragonstone)
I see your point about the shadow baby, not so much about robb though. WHat do you mean with Arya's assassinations?
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Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden.
I think the more curious/improbable thing about the Highgarden siege is where was Highgarden's army (including their banner men) and why/how they were willing to take that fight instead of retreating to their allies towards the south. If their entire army was there, they could still lose (as presumably happened), but it becomes more improbable for them to not know the army was coming in advance or why they couldn't retreat. It could be totally rational, but we were denied the context to make it so.
The problem with Euron's fleet movements is more how is he knowing where to go like you said? He sailed from King's Landing before Dany even knew what her own plan was and he has now managed to hunt down 2 separate fleets. There's no real reasonable way that he should have known as he sailed that the Unsullied would be heading towards Casterly Rock. It's possible he landed in some port (though ports where he was would be unfriendly being Dornish) and got information but again we aren't shown that.
As best as viewers that we can put together Euron knew the Unsullied were sailing for Casterly Rock before the Unsullied knew they were sailing to Casterly Rock. It was bad enough when he caught out the Dornish before the Dornish knew where they would be going, but that at least can be explaining by getting lucky and prowling the waters between Westeroes and Essoes. To take the Unsullied he has to blindly travel around the entire continent. It all *could* be explained reasonably, but it's not and that's the problem with it.
My problem with it is that it's just way too easy. They even described it as "I just followed the orders", i mean at that point you have to ask yourself why greyscale is a problem anywhere.
Also Sam finding all the important things right now is a nice coincidence, and i am sure there will be more still :/
Greyscale is uncommon in Westeroes, doubly so for the higher class of people. The only other character to get it got it from a traveling merchant. Combine that with the risk of getting infected yourself and the stigma around it, it seems relatively reasonable that people are unwilling to attempt treatment in Westeroes and reasonable the Citadel would sit on an obscure cure. You could argue people in Essoes should have figured out the cure already, but again I think the poor/rich divide there adequately colors the disease and they seem content to outcast people as Stone Men.
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I just read the HBO leaks:
+ Show Spoiler +
Next episode seems like another dumb, flashy action movie. But that's honestly what I've come to expect from GoT nowadays.
I hope they have the actual episodes and leak them soon and not some spoiler. Supposedly, it's 1.5 terabytes of files. However, I think if the files contained the episodes then they would have either announced it or leaked them already. Or maybe it's taking a while to go through everything? We'll see.
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On August 02 2017 01:16 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden. I think the more curious/improbable thing about the Highgarden siege is where was Highgarden's army (including their banner men) and why/how they were willing to take that fight instead of retreating to their allies towards the south. It could be totally rational, but we were denied the context to make it so. The problem with Euron's fleet movements is more how is he knowing where to go like you said? He sailed from King's Landing before Dany even knew what her own plan one and he has now managed to hunt down 2 separate fleets. There's no real reasonable way that he should have known as he sailed that the Unsullied would be heading towards Casterly Rock. It's possible he landed in some port (though ports where he was would be unfriendly being Dornish) and got information but again we aren't shown that. As best as viewers that we can put together Euron knew the Unsullied were sailing for Casterly Rock before the Unsullied knew they were sailing to Casterly Rock. It was bad enough when he caught out the Dornish before the Dornish knew where they would be going, but that at least can be explaining by getting lucky and prowling the waters between Westeroes and Essoes. To take the Unsullied he has to blindly travel around the entire continent. It all *could* be explained reasonably, but it's not and that's the problem with it. Show nested quote +My problem with it is that it's just way too easy. They even described it as "I just followed the orders", i mean at that point you have to ask yourself why greyscale is a problem anywhere.
Also Sam finding all the important things right now is a nice coincidence, and i am sure there will be more still :/ Greyscale is uncommon in Westeroes, doubly so for the higher class of people. The only other character to get it got it from a traveling merchant. Combine that with the risk of getting infected yourself and the stigma around it, it seems relatively reasonable that people are unwilling to attempt treatment in Westeroes and reasonable the Citadel would sit on an obscure cure. You could argue people in Essoes should have figured out the cure already, but again I think the poor/rich divide there adequately colors the disease and they seem content to outcast people as Stone Men.
I mean it's reasonable to say that the treatment is really dangerous, etc. But at the same time they show Sam, someone who has no experience with something like that whatsoever nail it 100% simply by "following the orders". Jorah is fine, doesn't even look that bad the day after, is allowed to leave, voilà.
It just doesn't add up tbh. That there is a cure is ok to me, but the presentation of all of it was just extremely lazy and it seems to me that the greyscale thing was simply a waste of screentime and fake tension.
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Or it's a testament to Sam's inherent skills as a maester and man of learning. He's getting built up for some kind of heroic act of intellect, seems good to me.
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On August 02 2017 01:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2017 01:16 Logo wrote:Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden. I think the more curious/improbable thing about the Highgarden siege is where was Highgarden's army (including their banner men) and why/how they were willing to take that fight instead of retreating to their allies towards the south. It could be totally rational, but we were denied the context to make it so. The problem with Euron's fleet movements is more how is he knowing where to go like you said? He sailed from King's Landing before Dany even knew what her own plan one and he has now managed to hunt down 2 separate fleets. There's no real reasonable way that he should have known as he sailed that the Unsullied would be heading towards Casterly Rock. It's possible he landed in some port (though ports where he was would be unfriendly being Dornish) and got information but again we aren't shown that. As best as viewers that we can put together Euron knew the Unsullied were sailing for Casterly Rock before the Unsullied knew they were sailing to Casterly Rock. It was bad enough when he caught out the Dornish before the Dornish knew where they would be going, but that at least can be explaining by getting lucky and prowling the waters between Westeroes and Essoes. To take the Unsullied he has to blindly travel around the entire continent. It all *could* be explained reasonably, but it's not and that's the problem with it. My problem with it is that it's just way too easy. They even described it as "I just followed the orders", i mean at that point you have to ask yourself why greyscale is a problem anywhere.
Also Sam finding all the important things right now is a nice coincidence, and i am sure there will be more still :/ Greyscale is uncommon in Westeroes, doubly so for the higher class of people. The only other character to get it got it from a traveling merchant. Combine that with the risk of getting infected yourself and the stigma around it, it seems relatively reasonable that people are unwilling to attempt treatment in Westeroes and reasonable the Citadel would sit on an obscure cure. You could argue people in Essoes should have figured out the cure already, but again I think the poor/rich divide there adequately colors the disease and they seem content to outcast people as Stone Men. I mean it's reasonable to say that the treatment is really dangerous, etc. But at the same time they show Sam, someone who has no experience with something like that whatsoever nail it 100% simply by "following the orders". Jorah is fine, doesn't even look that bad the day after, is allowed to leave, voilà. It just doesn't add up tbh. That there is a cure is ok to me, but the presentation of all of it was just extremely lazy and it seems to me that the greyscale thing was simply a waste of screentime and fake tension.
It struck me that the procedure was straightforward, but the risk of self-contamination was high. So it seemed ok that Sam could do the procedure and then we're lead to believe he got lucky in not infecting himself. I think the lack of the procedure being used is mostly from stigma is what we're supposed to take away from it? That or because the person to discover it died from greyscale so there's a presumed risk that may not actually be there. I hear you on the complaints though. The last bit is definitely true though until we see more of Jorah. At the moment it mostly seems like they writers realized they made a mistake by giving Jorah greyscale, but it could fit nicely into the plot. It may be relevant that Jorah is in Westeroes, but not with Dany.
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Proper sanitation could be the ground breaking secret to that treatment. But that entire plotline was a waste of time unless something changes.
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On August 02 2017 01:29 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2017 01:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 02 2017 01:16 Logo wrote:Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden. I think the more curious/improbable thing about the Highgarden siege is where was Highgarden's army (including their banner men) and why/how they were willing to take that fight instead of retreating to their allies towards the south. It could be totally rational, but we were denied the context to make it so. The problem with Euron's fleet movements is more how is he knowing where to go like you said? He sailed from King's Landing before Dany even knew what her own plan one and he has now managed to hunt down 2 separate fleets. There's no real reasonable way that he should have known as he sailed that the Unsullied would be heading towards Casterly Rock. It's possible he landed in some port (though ports where he was would be unfriendly being Dornish) and got information but again we aren't shown that. As best as viewers that we can put together Euron knew the Unsullied were sailing for Casterly Rock before the Unsullied knew they were sailing to Casterly Rock. It was bad enough when he caught out the Dornish before the Dornish knew where they would be going, but that at least can be explaining by getting lucky and prowling the waters between Westeroes and Essoes. To take the Unsullied he has to blindly travel around the entire continent. It all *could* be explained reasonably, but it's not and that's the problem with it. My problem with it is that it's just way too easy. They even described it as "I just followed the orders", i mean at that point you have to ask yourself why greyscale is a problem anywhere.
Also Sam finding all the important things right now is a nice coincidence, and i am sure there will be more still :/ Greyscale is uncommon in Westeroes, doubly so for the higher class of people. The only other character to get it got it from a traveling merchant. Combine that with the risk of getting infected yourself and the stigma around it, it seems relatively reasonable that people are unwilling to attempt treatment in Westeroes and reasonable the Citadel would sit on an obscure cure. You could argue people in Essoes should have figured out the cure already, but again I think the poor/rich divide there adequately colors the disease and they seem content to outcast people as Stone Men. I mean it's reasonable to say that the treatment is really dangerous, etc. But at the same time they show Sam, someone who has no experience with something like that whatsoever nail it 100% simply by "following the orders". Jorah is fine, doesn't even look that bad the day after, is allowed to leave, voilà. It just doesn't add up tbh. That there is a cure is ok to me, but the presentation of all of it was just extremely lazy and it seems to me that the greyscale thing was simply a waste of screentime and fake tension. It struck me that the procedure was straightforward, but the risk of self-contamination was high. So it seemed ok that Sam could do the procedure and then we're lead to believe he got lucky in not infecting himself. I think the lack of the procedure being used is mostly from stigma is what we're supposed to take away from it? That or because the person to discover it died from greyscale so there's a presumed risk that may not actually be there. I hear you on the complaints though. The last bit is definitely true though until we see more of Jorah. At the moment it mostly seems like they writers realized they made a mistake by giving Jorah greyscale, but it could fit nicely into the plot. It may be relevant that Jorah is in Westeroes, but not with Dany.
The thing that bothers me is this: is curing Greyscale really as simple as cutting off the grey flesh and then using a herbal mixture to treat the skin under it? Seriously? You do realize how ridiculously replicable that is? That is something that the entirety of Essos could use to cure themselves. It would be as simple as:
1. Find out you have greyscale (oh no!).
2. Get that herbal mixture.
3. Tear off the skin on your arm.
4. Apply mixture.
Nobody goes to Valyria because of the stone men. There are probably priceless artifacts scattered ALL AROUND. Valyrian steel, dragon eggs, whatever the hell else. All you need to do is go there, grab the shit, get out, cure yourself of Greyscale (if needed).
It's not like the mixture is made with flakes of gold, otherwise Sam would not have been able to get it in the citadel so easily. This chemical is something they could manufacture and export to the world. There is certainly a market for it.
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On August 02 2017 00:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
So you think it makes a lot of sense that highgarden falls rather easily against the lannisters for example? (and olenna tyrell even has to voice over with something like "we never were good at fighting" to explain it)
What about Jorah and greyscale and the whole sam plotline. Just two examples which were pretty bad in my eyes.
Can you point to these irrational things in former seasons which is on par? (and books if you like)
I mean you simply state things as fact, but withotu examples and reasoning it's not worth a lot.
I said: "When I watched the ep I thought Euron wasn't with his fleet at Casterly Rock". Sorry, but where do I state things as fact? Meanwhile, you complain I need to give examples and reasoning (while I'm not trying to prove a point, you guys are) while you state that 'Jorah and greyscale and the whole sam plotline were pretty bad'. Uhm, nice examples and reasoning there.
Of course I think that when you look into details that you'll find a lot of things that are questionable or unexplained, but as long as they don't stand out to me when I'm just watching the show, I don't mind. I still think GoT is doing better than some big movies...
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I already stated why Sam's plotline was bad in another post, maybe you should check that out.
This post you quoted also was talkign to redox mainly.
On August 02 2017 01:38 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2017 01:29 Logo wrote:On August 02 2017 01:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 02 2017 01:16 Logo wrote:Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden. I think the more curious/improbable thing about the Highgarden siege is where was Highgarden's army (including their banner men) and why/how they were willing to take that fight instead of retreating to their allies towards the south. It could be totally rational, but we were denied the context to make it so. The problem with Euron's fleet movements is more how is he knowing where to go like you said? He sailed from King's Landing before Dany even knew what her own plan one and he has now managed to hunt down 2 separate fleets. There's no real reasonable way that he should have known as he sailed that the Unsullied would be heading towards Casterly Rock. It's possible he landed in some port (though ports where he was would be unfriendly being Dornish) and got information but again we aren't shown that. As best as viewers that we can put together Euron knew the Unsullied were sailing for Casterly Rock before the Unsullied knew they were sailing to Casterly Rock. It was bad enough when he caught out the Dornish before the Dornish knew where they would be going, but that at least can be explaining by getting lucky and prowling the waters between Westeroes and Essoes. To take the Unsullied he has to blindly travel around the entire continent. It all *could* be explained reasonably, but it's not and that's the problem with it. My problem with it is that it's just way too easy. They even described it as "I just followed the orders", i mean at that point you have to ask yourself why greyscale is a problem anywhere.
Also Sam finding all the important things right now is a nice coincidence, and i am sure there will be more still :/ Greyscale is uncommon in Westeroes, doubly so for the higher class of people. The only other character to get it got it from a traveling merchant. Combine that with the risk of getting infected yourself and the stigma around it, it seems relatively reasonable that people are unwilling to attempt treatment in Westeroes and reasonable the Citadel would sit on an obscure cure. You could argue people in Essoes should have figured out the cure already, but again I think the poor/rich divide there adequately colors the disease and they seem content to outcast people as Stone Men. I mean it's reasonable to say that the treatment is really dangerous, etc. But at the same time they show Sam, someone who has no experience with something like that whatsoever nail it 100% simply by "following the orders". Jorah is fine, doesn't even look that bad the day after, is allowed to leave, voilà. It just doesn't add up tbh. That there is a cure is ok to me, but the presentation of all of it was just extremely lazy and it seems to me that the greyscale thing was simply a waste of screentime and fake tension. It struck me that the procedure was straightforward, but the risk of self-contamination was high. So it seemed ok that Sam could do the procedure and then we're lead to believe he got lucky in not infecting himself. I think the lack of the procedure being used is mostly from stigma is what we're supposed to take away from it? That or because the person to discover it died from greyscale so there's a presumed risk that may not actually be there. I hear you on the complaints though. The last bit is definitely true though until we see more of Jorah. At the moment it mostly seems like they writers realized they made a mistake by giving Jorah greyscale, but it could fit nicely into the plot. It may be relevant that Jorah is in Westeroes, but not with Dany. The thing that bothers me is this: is curing Greyscale really as simple as cutting off the grey flesh and then using a herbal mixture to treat the skin under it? Seriously? You do realize how ridiculously replicable that is? That is something that the entirety of Essos could use to cure themselves. It would be as simple as: 1. Find out you have greyscale (oh no!). 2. Get that herbal mixture. 3. Tear off the skin on your arm. 4. Apply mixture. Nobody goes to Valyria because of the stone men. There are probably priceless artifacts scattered ALL AROUND. Valyrian steel, dragon eggs, whatever the hell else. All you need to do is go there, grab the shit, get out, cure yourself of Greyscale (if needed). It's not like the mixture is made with flakes of gold, otherwise Sam would not have been able to get it in the citadel so easily. This chemical is something they could manufacture and export to the world. There is certainly a market for it.
Well that's the thing. They tell us that it's really dangerous so nobody even tries to cure it but then Sam nails it very easily. That's the problem here.
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So it took 3 episode this year for this thread to become the usual gathering of over-criticism: it makes it somehow not readable for someone who don't like to pick on all details and just enjoy some relaxing entertainment, but I can always talk about GoT somewhere else, rather than here... I for sure don't think the show is 100% accurate, or that it measure to the historical accuracy of.. real historical events ! 
But sometimes I wander if you consume all forms of entertainment with the same level of pickiness, are you really able to enjoy things? (tv shows, music, games, videogames, ...)
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On August 02 2017 02:19 VHbb wrote:So it took 3 episode this year for this thread to become the usual gathering of over-criticism: it makes it somehow not readable for someone who don't like to pick on all details and just enjoy some relaxing entertainment, but I can always talk about GoT somewhere else, rather than here... I for sure don't think the show is 100% accurate, or that it measure to the historical accuracy of.. real historical events ! But sometimes I wander if you consume all forms of entertainment with the same level of pickiness, are you really able to enjoy things? (tv shows, music, games, videogames, ...)
I mean i still enjoy the show enough, it's not binary of either enjoying something or not enjoying it. It's a spectrum.
I would simply enjoy it more if it was better written. I still enjoy the production values, the acting, and there are still good scenes.
If i wouldn't enjoy it at all i wouldn't watch it. But yes being highly critical obviously makes it harder to enjoy things. At the same time i think that there is a lot of good entertainment out there so i don't feel the need to be ok with anything.
Though i will be honest, maybe i wouldn't watch the show anymore if GRRM would have already released the last two books.
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EPT
