EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1633
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 01 2017 06:59 Artesimo wrote: - Why is a character whos literally known solely for being a cynical and rational man so idealistic and naive about a clearly unhinged maniac who likes to burn people? Not sure who you exactly mean. Was poorly phrased I guess. I mean, Tyrion is known to be a cynic, about everything. He's also known to be quite intelligent, and rational, he doesnt believe in fantasys, hes not religious, he doesnt let his passions get ahead of him. Whats the basis for his fondness for danny in that case? He says he prides himself on being a good judge of character, and seemingly he considers danny to be a good person. She sets people on fire. She goes on unhinged rants about how she will rule the kingdoms, blah blah. Why is Tyrion so fond of her? He seems like the last person that should be swept up in her bullshit. I dont even recall a moment where she impressed him. If it was just a drunk, hopeless Tyrion looking for a reason to live, OK. But what was the precipitating event that inspired loyalty? I remember she gave a silly speech about how she would break the wheel, and from that moment on, hes her lap dog. Why is an intelligent and rational man so easily persuaded by a despot? On August 01 2017 06:59 Artesimo wrote: I agree with the gold supply, assuming Tyrion was still ignorant of it. But remember, his narration of the battle scene seemed to imply he thought that the entire lannister army would be there, they would be ready, they would be commanded by Jamie or at least some other hardened soldier, they would be better equipped [western metal vs leather and sticks] and they would fight to the death. Yeah, if everything works out spectacularly well, comically well, you destroy the lannister army and secure gold. Realistically, even if you win, you do it against a defensive position [sneaking in through sewers doesnt make up for defensive advantages completely] against a superior foe. Best case scenario it was silly to the extreme, imo.It would have trapped the biggest chunk of the lannister armies as well as cut off their supposed goldsupply. With armies requiring gold and Cersei being immensly in debt, this doesnt seem that illogical to me. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
If it was just a drunk, hopeless Tyrion looking for a reason to live, OK. But what was the precipitating event that inspired loyalty? I remember she gave a silly speech about how she would break the wheel, and from that moment on, hes her lap dog. Why is an intelligent and rational man so easily persuaded by a despot? Well there are two reasons: 1. It can get him revenge on Cersei. 2. It gets him influence/his opinion matter. But yeh, mostly it's just for the plot. Anyway, someone else suspected that Varys might be up to something, and while I normally would say that "what you see is what you get" when it comes to GOT. I do think that if there is one single twist in the remaining part of the show it will be that Varys has other plans. The scene where Varys was qustioned about his past decisions - while a good scene - seemed unusual for GOT. Normally the writers just ignore past decisions when it makes the plot more complicated, so including that scene makes me think that they want to remember what part of advicer Varys is. | ||
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Artesimo
Germany599 Posts
On August 01 2017 07:28 Dazed. wrote: Was poorly phrased I guess. I mean, Tyrion is known to be a cynic, about everything. He's also known to be quite intelligent, and rational, he doesnt believe in fantasys, hes not religious, he doesnt let his passions get ahead of him. Whats the basis for his fondness for danny in that case? He says he prides himself on being a good judge of character, and seemingly he considers danny to be a good person. She sets people on fire. She goes on unhinged rants about how she will rule the kingdoms, blah blah. Why is Tyrion so fond of her? He seems like the last person that should be swept up in her bullshit. I dont even recall a moment where she impressed him. If it was just a drunk, hopeless Tyrion looking for a reason to live, OK. But what was the precipitating event that inspired loyalty? I remember she gave a silly speech about how she would break the wheel, and from that moment on, hes her lap dog. Why is an intelligent and rational man so easily persuaded by a despot? I don't watch GoT so religiously, now that you say it it seems rther obvious that you ment tyrion and danerys. Wasnt sure if I forgot some pyromaniac before your clarification. Though at least in the show, she seemes to be one of the lesser evils, so maybe it is is just the contrast and being with his back to the wall that makes him follow her. I agree with the gold supply, assuming Tyrion was still ignorant of it. But remember, his narration of the battle scene seemed to imply he thought that the entire lannister army would be there, they would be ready, they would be commanded by Jamie or at least some other hardened soldier, they would be better equipped [western metal vs leather and sticks] and they would fight to the death. Yeah, if everything works out spectacularly well, comically well, you destroy the lannister army and secure gold. Realistically, even if you win, you do it against a defensive position [sneaking in through sewers doesnt make up for defensive advantages completely] against a superior foe. Best case scenario it was silly to the extreme, imo. Yeah, that narration and the general speed of the events made the whole thing look really weird and half assed. Though sneaking in and opening gates negates a big chunk of the defenders advantage immediately and completely removes it as soon as you take the walls of the ope gate. Then when inside you could argue that the close combat negates superior numbers to a degree. Now that I think about it, I am actually more annoyed by the fact that Eon / his fleet once again seemingly appeard out of nowhere without having been noticed untill completely surrounding the unsullieds fleet. You can't really sneak up on someone with sailing ships during the day and good weather... Wouldn't it be hilarious if that simply was the end? The Martells are crushed, the unsullied get starved to death in casterly rock / on their march back to daernys, those super secret high tech balista wreck the dragons and Cersei goes on to fight a brutal war against the north, now once again backed by the iron bank of bravos and most of the lords of westeros. Since the sandsnake is beheaded, dorne is too busy with infighting for the crown. Then winter comes in and the army of the dead just wreckes the north while it is still defending against the lannisters. After that the night king marches on to destroy the rest of westeros and thats it. It would fit the theme of good/less bad people getting damned by the selfish actions of more evil people since everyone else was just looking out for themself until it is too late. It would also be possible to properly show this type of ending with the amount of episodes we got left over the last seasons while also being able to wrap up the smaler storylines. It would be a immensly unpopular ending, but the complaints would just be the cherry on top :D | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 01 2017 07:51 Hider wrote: Well there are two reasons: 1. It can get him revenge on Cersei. 2. It gets him influence/his opinion matter. But yeh, mostly it's just for the plot. Anyway, someone else suspected that Varys might be up to something, and while I normally would say that "what you see is what you get" when it comes to GOT. I do think that if there is one single twist in the remaining part of the show it will be that Varys has other plans. The scene where Varys was qustioned about his past decisions - while a good scene - seemed unusual for GOT. Normally the writers just ignore past decisions when it makes the plot more complicated, so including that scene makes me think that they want to remember what part of advicer Varys is. Hm i actually don't think that Varys' motivations will be different from what he told Daenerys. I think if there is a big twist it will be about the white walkers, all the political actions of the different "players" will be rather straightforward at this point. The scene you are talking about was a simple nod to continuity imo, it would just be too weird if Dany wouldn't care about the assassination attempt. (i mean it's weird that they would talk about it in dragonstone for the first time, but hey whatever) | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1964 Posts
On August 01 2017 07:28 Dazed. wrote: Was poorly phrased I guess. I mean, Tyrion is known to be a cynic, about everything. He's also known to be quite intelligent, and rational, he doesnt believe in fantasys, hes not religious, he doesnt let his passions get ahead of him. Whats the basis for his fondness for danny in that case? He says he prides himself on being a good judge of character, and seemingly he considers danny to be a good person. She sets people on fire. She goes on unhinged rants about how she will rule the kingdoms, blah blah. Why is Tyrion so fond of her? He seems like the last person that should be swept up in her bullshit. I dont even recall a moment where she impressed him. If it was just a drunk, hopeless Tyrion looking for a reason to live, OK. But what was the precipitating event that inspired loyalty? I remember she gave a silly speech about how she would break the wheel, and from that moment on, hes her lap dog. Why is an intelligent and rational man so easily persuaded by a despot? I agree with the gold supply, assuming Tyrion was still ignorant of it. But remember, his narration of the battle scene seemed to imply he thought that the entire lannister army would be there, they would be ready, they would be commanded by Jamie or at least some other hardened soldier, they would be better equipped [western metal vs leather and sticks] and they would fight to the death. Yeah, if everything works out spectacularly well, comically well, you destroy the lannister army and secure gold. Realistically, even if you win, you do it against a defensive position [sneaking in through sewers doesnt make up for defensive advantages completely] against a superior foe. Best case scenario it was silly to the extreme, imo. The problem is that the show is quite clueless about Daenerys and frankly, Martin seemed to have been as well. In the books, Dany is a 14 year old girl with a good heart andunwavering determination. This makes her at times a real bitch to her enemies, brutally murdering opposition. At other times, she is just completely overwhelmed with that dilemma of ruling as a good queen while bad things keep happening because she is too lenient or too strict. Most people i know didnt enjoy her chapters in the later books at all because the loveable parts about her are rare between the parts where she struggles to be good and the show has completly cut that part out in my opinion. In the show, Daenerys is arrogant and cruel and the compassion she shows for her people are corny speeches she gives from time to time just to act badass afterwards again. Her inner monologue does not get any spotlight and as a result she comes off as that crazy arrogant person. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On August 01 2017 08:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: Hm i actually don't think that Varys' motivations will be different from what he told Daenerys. I think if there is a big twist it will be about the white walkers, all the political actions of the different "players" will be rather straightforward at this point. The scene you are talking about was a simple nod to continuity imo, it would just be too weird if Dany wouldn't care about the assassination attempt. (i mean it's weird that they would talk about it in dragonstone for the first time, but hey whatever) Well I think white walkers will come next season. I expect them to get south the wall by walking over the ice'd water at the end of the season, but we won't learn much more about them this season. I also don't think its likely there will be a Varys twist. Rather, assuming there is one (big) twist in this season, that's where I would put my money. The scene you are talking about was a simple nod to continuity imo, it would just be too weird if Dany wouldn't care about the assassination attempt. (i mean it's weird that they would talk about it in dragonstone for the first time, but hey whatev It would surely be weird, hence why I thought it was a good scene. However, the series writer has showed they do not care about continuity at all. And I probably argue that 90%+ of the viewers had already forgotten about Varys previous plots. Thus going into the season I had expected that the writers would just continue as they had always done. And in the case that we do see a twist with Varys, including this type of scene definitely makes sense. | ||
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Warfie
Norway2848 Posts
On August 01 2017 10:14 Hider wrote: Well I think white walkers will come next season. I expect them to get south the wall by walking over the ice'd water at the end of the season, but we won't learn much more about them this season. What iced water? o.o I thought the most popular theory was that the wall would fall? e: if it's this then that's clouds no? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On August 01 2017 18:35 Warfie wrote: What iced water? o.o I thought the most popular theory was that the wall would fall? e: if it's this then that's clouds no? Ah ok, guess the wall will fall then. | ||
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QzYSc2
Netherlands281 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
Not even mentioning "So it begins..." | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On August 01 2017 10:14 Hider wrote: Well I think white walkers will come next season. I expect them to get south the wall by walking over the ice'd water at the end of the season, but we won't learn much more about them this season. I also don't think its likely there will be a Varys twist. Rather, assuming there is one (big) twist in this season, that's where I would put my money. It would surely be weird, hence why I thought it was a good scene. However, the series writer has showed they do not care about continuity at all. And I probably argue that 90%+ of the viewers had already forgotten about Varys previous plots. Thus going into the season I had expected that the writers would just continue as they had always done. And in the case that we do see a twist with Varys, including this type of scene definitely makes sense. You have a point, they also made Tyrion comment to Ellaria though but that was later plot relevant obviously. So maybe Varys' little scene will be plot relevant as well besides establishing again what his motives are. He just seemed genuine there tbh, but yeah if a big twist happens this season he actually might be it. Would also kinda explain why the enemies run all over Dany, if there is someone who feeds information. Though i think that would already have been brought up by someone. You are right that the white walker arc will probably start next season, just saying that if there is a big twist in the next 10 episodes then i think it's about them. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
That said, there was that whole thing where the Hound saw into the fire and saw mountains near the wall, which could figure into the White Walker plot too. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
WHat do you want to discuss? | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
So pls, what do you want to discuss? Right now people are simply disappointed that some things don't seem to make much sense. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On August 01 2017 23:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: Nobody is stopping you from making a post about that and if other people are interested in replying they will do so. So pls, what do you want to discuss? Right now people are simply disappointed that some things don't seem to make much sense. More like people not making sense while trying hard to find things that dont make sense. Not fun to read or argue at all. | ||
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