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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On August 01 2017 04:52 cmdspinner1 wrote:
I wonder how all of you "experts" would criticise the "bad writing" if there was a series about a real war like WW2: "Why didn't the German army send their tanks and crush the british forces in Dunkirk before they could be evacuated, thats just bad writing and unrealistic."
In real wars Generals and rulers make mistakes and illogical moves all the time also because there is limited information on which they must base their strategies on. In real wars most things don't go about as a historian would have done it in retrospect. So I wouldn't overanalyze the Wars and battles in Game of thrones.
You could go back to comments people made on season 1-4?
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On August 01 2017 04:52 cmdspinner1 wrote:
I wonder how all of you "experts" would criticise the "bad writing" if there was a series about a real war like WW2: "Why didn't the German army send their tanks and crush the british forces in Dunkirk before they could be evacuated, thats just bad writing and unrealistic."
In real wars Generals and rulers make mistakes and illogical moves all the time also because there is limited information on which they must base their strategies on. In real wars most things don't go about as a historian would have done it in retrospect. So I wouldn't overanalyze the Wars and battles in Game of thrones.
The American Revolution might as well be called “And then they let Washington escape with his entire army again for no good reason.”
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GRRM has said multiple times he wrote kings / queens to do mistakes when leading because he wanted to show they are just human, and like all humans are susceptible to said mistakes. Rob was a good example of this.
It's important to note the difference between "bad writing" and a purposely written bad move on the characters part.
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This season has been god awful. d@d are incompetent hacks.
-Why did they sail past dorne just to go to dragonstone and then back to dorne? Nonsensical within the continuity of the world, as well as writing. They could of had the meeting at dorne, danny could of went with a small retinue to dragonstone against advice, for symbolic reasons, the fleet could still have been ambushed (with a fully stocked dornish army on board, more deaths, more drama).
- Why and how did grey worms fleet not go with Yaras when they were headed to the exact same location? Why was ollenna conveniently in the fleet that wasnt attacked? Plot contrivance.
- Why is cersei, someone who condemend a nun to rape and torture for months, suddenly OK with nothing more than poetic revenge against ellaria?
- Tyrions best case scenario was that he would send a fleet around the length of the whole of westeros and attack a giant castle with the entire lannister army in it...for no reason. What strategical purpose did it have? Even if he was unaware the gold mines ran out, it was still nonsensical. Cant explain that away with 'hes not a military commander', there simply is no rationale for the action, at all.
- Why did we wait a year just to have two major battles done with a narration over dub and a cut scene?
- Why was tyrion babbling lamely about freedom being what would allow the unsullied to win? How fucking lame was that? Very.
- Why does danny veer from insane unhinged monarch to reasonable scene to scene? She does 180's moment to moment.
- Why do we keep getting poorly acted and irrelevant arya scenes?
- Why would bran explain the three eyed raven thing so utterly incompetently? Plot contrivance, thats why. We needed Sansa to be creeped out and not understand, so Bran simply...doesnt explain. "I am the three eyed raven, there used to be another, but I took his position upon his death". Wow, so difficult to explain. Not.
- Besides the sillyness that Ollenna just happened to be on the fleet that wasnt attacked, why was she even at highgarden? Doesnt she have anyone who can tell the troops to rally besides herself? Like a general? Anyone? Why would they need an old lady to travel back and forth a continent just to get troops to rally? Nonsense. For that matter, how come every family seems to only have like 5-6 people in it? Why would anyone fight for Ollena if shes literally the only Tyrell left? Only one of significance, sure, but if shes literally the only one left, why would anyone lift a finger? Hey guys, lets fight and die for an old lady, who will be dead of natural causes in a few weeks, meaning our entire way of life and allegiances go out the window! WEEEEEEEEE
- Why are Theons men so disgusted that he saved himself? Didnt they also save themselves?
- Why would peter baelish walk himself into a corner where his only bit of authority is that hes blackmailed a few vale men, predicated on a friendship with a stupid child a thousand miles away, and his tenuous relationship with a girl whos father he had murdered, and set up for her to be raped? Because D@d are hack fools and couldnt write their way out of a paper bag, thats why. Hes clearly going to be executed in an episode or two. Who wants to bet it will be some stupid fist pump moment for brienne like last season?
- Why is a character whos literally known solely for being a cynical and rational man so idealistic and naive about a clearly unhinged maniac who likes to burn people?
This whole season has been a god damn mess. Contrived plot, poor attempts at drama, inconsistent characters, nonsensical decision making, irrational dialogue. Hell, even Tyrions voice has changed, for no reason whatsoever.
It's important to note the difference between "bad writing" and a purposely written bad move on the characters part. Indeed it is important to note the difference. These mistakes arent mistakes based on human frailty and a lack of foresight, they're just stupid rushed writing decisions to get to a dramatic and contrived ending.
Pah!
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This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany?
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On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany? In the books, it was her brother. In the show, I'm assuming the great love of her life, the moon of her life [or whatever she called him] is the one that raped her? I dont know. Not filled out details, just something for danny to spit out to give her more self righteousness despite the fact that she clearly gets off seeing men burn and die horribly.
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On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany?
Khal Drogo i guess
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On August 01 2017 05:15 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany? Khal Drogo i guess
Having watched that first episode again, yeah.
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On August 01 2017 05:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:15 Reaps wrote:On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany? Khal Drogo i guess Having watched that first episode again, yeah. If danny considered that rape [as opposed to just uncomfortable sex in a social scenario she would of preferred to have avoided all together] why did she fall deeply and passionately in love with her rapist less than a week later? And remain so much in love she named a dragon after him, and had a dream that he was alive and that she could be with him forever, etc? God awful writing.
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It's important to note the difference between "bad writing" and a purposely written bad move on the characters part.
Bad writing = A character making a move/decision that is inconsistent with how he historically has acted, makes no logical sense + it's not properly explained why he makes such a deviation.
Bad decision = When a character makes a decision that from his perspective at the heat of the moment seems like the right thing to do, but has various types of consquences that makes it apparent that it was a mistake.
Watch Breaking Bad for tons of decisions of the latter. The series was a masterpiece when it came to decisions where you could understand what made Walter White act the way he did, but obviously had fatal consequences.
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On August 01 2017 05:24 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:19 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2017 05:15 Reaps wrote:On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany? Khal Drogo i guess Having watched that first episode again, yeah. If danny considered that rape [as opposed to just uncomfortable sex in a social scenario she would of preferred to have avoided all together] why did she fall deeply and passionately in love with her rapist less than a week later? And remain so much in love she named a dragon after him, and had a dream that he was alive and that she could be with him forever, etc? God awful writing.
It was 100% rape, no question about it. Also it was this way in the books no?
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On August 01 2017 05:26 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:24 Dazed. wrote:On August 01 2017 05:19 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2017 05:15 Reaps wrote:On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany? Khal Drogo i guess Having watched that first episode again, yeah. If danny considered that rape [as opposed to just uncomfortable sex in a social scenario she would of preferred to have avoided all together] why did she fall deeply and passionately in love with her rapist less than a week later? And remain so much in love she named a dragon after him, and had a dream that he was alive and that she could be with him forever, etc? God awful writing. It was 100% rape, no question about it. Also it was this way in the books no?
Come off it. A medieval woman calling an arranged marriage rape is ridiculous. That is the standard. She should tell the slaves she freed about how she was raped.
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On August 01 2017 05:29 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:26 Reaps wrote:On August 01 2017 05:24 Dazed. wrote:On August 01 2017 05:19 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2017 05:15 Reaps wrote:On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany? Khal Drogo i guess Having watched that first episode again, yeah. If danny considered that rape [as opposed to just uncomfortable sex in a social scenario she would of preferred to have avoided all together] why did she fall deeply and passionately in love with her rapist less than a week later? And remain so much in love she named a dragon after him, and had a dream that he was alive and that she could be with him forever, etc? God awful writing. It was 100% rape, no question about it. Also it was this way in the books no? Come off it. A medieval woman calling an arranged marriage rape is ridiculous. That is the standard. She should tell the slaves she freed about how she was raped.
Her brother gave her to the Khal in return for a army, she was given as a slave, a sex slave, and then was forced to have sex against her will. How is that not rape?
Edit: now that i remember, in the books her sorta asks for permission, in the show he just took her.
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On August 01 2017 05:29 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:26 Reaps wrote:On August 01 2017 05:24 Dazed. wrote:On August 01 2017 05:19 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2017 05:15 Reaps wrote:On August 01 2017 05:14 bardtown wrote:
This seems like something I should know, but who raped Dany? Khal Drogo i guess Having watched that first episode again, yeah. If danny considered that rape [as opposed to just uncomfortable sex in a social scenario she would of preferred to have avoided all together] why did she fall deeply and passionately in love with her rapist less than a week later? And remain so much in love she named a dragon after him, and had a dream that he was alive and that she could be with him forever, etc? God awful writing. It was 100% rape, no question about it. Also it was this way in the books no? Come off it. A medieval woman calling an arranged marriage rape is ridiculous. That is the standard. She should tell the slaves she freed about how she was raped. Exactly. One moment shes a medieval woman (hence why she fell in love with Drogo, inspite of the circumstance) and the next shes a modern day woman who considers herself a rape victim. Whatevers necessary for that scene. No consistency.
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Danger, danger, we are headed into the “Slavery was fine because it was legal” area of discussion. Just because sex without contest was social acceptable and allowed in medieval times doesn’t make it not rape. It just makes it legalized rape. Marital rape was legal in the US in the 1970s. That doesn’t mean it was good.
These characters are complex and the show reflects different times. But that doesn’t make what happened to Dany less than what we consider to be rape. Or that she fell in love with her husband less real or somehow bad.
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By the standards of the future I'm probably the victim of all manner of injustice. Reparations please.
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On August 01 2017 05:33 Plansix wrote:
Danger, danger, we are headed into the “Slavery was fine because it was legal” area of discussion. Just because sex without contest was social acceptable and allowed in medieval times doesn’t make it not rape. It just makes it legalized rape. Thats not the dispute, the dispute is a matter of self perception and the logical characterization that comes from that. A woman in medieval times would not consider an arranged marriage rape, least of all for a person she fell in love with less than a week later. Moon of her stars and all that nonsense.
Frankly, isnt it a hell of a lot worse for the writers to make danny both a self acknowledge rape victim AND to have fallen in love with her rapist? At least previously they could cover that in the smoke screen of an ancient culture, now its just...bizarre...
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On August 01 2017 05:34 bardtown wrote:
By the standards of the future I'm probably the victim of all manner of injustice. Reparations please.
Or you could just acknowledge the stuffer of people in the past, rather than dismissing it or saying it was fine. You seem to feel that acknowledgment is somehow a call for you to do something beyond think. But maybe that is asking a lot for you, I don’t’ know.
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On August 01 2017 05:35 Dazed. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:33 Plansix wrote:
Danger, danger, we are headed into the “Slavery was fine because it was legal” area of discussion. Just because sex without contest was social acceptable and allowed in medieval times doesn’t make it not rape. It just makes it legalized rape. Thats not the dispute, the dispute is a matter of self perception and the logical characterization that comes from that. A woman in medieval times would not consider an arranged marriage rape, least of all for a person she fell in love with less than a week later. Moon of her stars and all that nonsense. Frankly, isnt it a hell of a lot worse for the writers to make danny both a self acknowledge rape victim AND to have fallen in love with her rapist? At least previously they could cover that in the smoke screen of an ancient culture, now its just...bizarre...
Or it is just a story of what happens to some women in that era. A whole lot of them get murdered/abused by their husbands or cast aside. Women were forced to marry men they didn’t love and sleep with them throughout history. I don’t know why this is being disputed or called anything but what it was.
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On August 01 2017 05:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 05:35 Dazed. wrote:On August 01 2017 05:33 Plansix wrote:
Danger, danger, we are headed into the “Slavery was fine because it was legal” area of discussion. Just because sex without contest was social acceptable and allowed in medieval times doesn’t make it not rape. It just makes it legalized rape. Thats not the dispute, the dispute is a matter of self perception and the logical characterization that comes from that. A woman in medieval times would not consider an arranged marriage rape, least of all for a person she fell in love with less than a week later. Moon of her stars and all that nonsense. Frankly, isnt it a hell of a lot worse for the writers to make danny both a self acknowledge rape victim AND to have fallen in love with her rapist? At least previously they could cover that in the smoke screen of an ancient culture, now its just...bizarre... Or it is just a story of what happens to some women in that era. A whole lot of them get murdered/abused by their husbands or cast aside. Are you saying that women typically fall in love with their rapists? And remain in love with them for years afterwards? Are you telling me its common for people to grow up in a slavery society, but suddenly have an anti slavery ethos? None of this is typical. Danny pops in as a 21st century women, then pops into being a medieval woman. Whatever the scene requires. One moment shes crazy, the next moment shes a modern day liberal. One second shes a medievalist, the next second shes virtually a democrat.
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EPT
