EPTI reeeally hope they're not going to make Theon heroically save Yara like she tried to save him when he was captured by Ramsay. I mean it seems predictable, but it doesn't really fit his character so I hope they'll come up wtih something more interesting or just forget he exists.
[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1630
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Sent.
Poland9248 Posts
I reeeally hope they're not going to make Theon heroically save Yara like she tried to save him when he was captured by Ramsay. I mean it seems predictable, but it doesn't really fit his character so I hope they'll come up wtih something more interesting or just forget he exists. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1947 Posts
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Hyperbola
United States2544 Posts
On August 01 2017 02:54 Broetchenholer wrote: The episode was quite enjoyable, but nothing makes sense anymore. Just forget all thas was awesome about the military side of the show before. Now we just drop armies where we need them to advance the plot and then we have the characters talk about how genius their move was so that the audience believes just that. I am currently watching Code Geass and it's the exact same storytelling. Super intelligent student is the best at war and can just conjure up units everywhere he needs them, crushes everything until someone who is also super intelligent comes along, reads him like a map and destroys him completely. Then he sulks a bit and concentrates really hard on being super intelligent and this time he beats the enemy. But the show still does not explain how he gets all those mechs. That's exactly how GoT is right now. Unfortunately, GOT has never been about military strategy. The most that we got was Robb Stark doing a fake out to capture Jamie. Instead the show focuses more on allegiances and alliances when it comes to battles. For instance: the battle of black water was won because Tywin secured an alliance with the Tyrells. The battle of the bastards was won because of the Vale knights. Tywin destroyed Robb because of the Freys. Stannis was beaten because his army deserted. Dany captured Yunkai because she convinced the slaves to defect... and now Jamie/Cersei are winning battles because they ally with Euron and Randall Tarly. I would appreciate more tactics in the show but it's ultimately just a show about human drama. It's all about the power of friendship. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On August 01 2017 03:07 Hyperbola wrote: Unfortunately, GOT has never been about military strategy. The most that we got was Robb Stark doing a fake out to capture Jamie. Instead the show focuses more on allegiances and alliances when it comes to battles. For instance: the battle of black water was won because Tywin secured an alliance with the Tyrells. The battle of the bastards was won because of the Vale knights. Tywin destroyed Robb because of the Freys. Stannis was beaten because his army deserted. Dany captured Yunkai because she convinced the slaves to defect... and now Jamie/Cersei are winning battles because they ally with Euron and Randall Tarly. I would appreciate more tactics in the show but it's ultimately just a show about human drama. It's all about the power of friendship. Well but the motivation between the battles and the decisions of the actors throughout and before the battle still made sense. It used to be that the more I read and thought about GOT, the more I enjoyed it. But right now, I think GOT is a good show if you watch it and then think as little about it afterwards. Because the more you think about it, the less it makes sense. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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lestye
United States4186 Posts
On July 31 2017 20:33 Plansix wrote: Davos got the best line in the entire episode though during the introductions. "This is Jon Snow," pause for dramatic effect "He's king of the north." I thought the title was King In the North? Granted Davos isn't a Northman so I understand if he fucked it up. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2017 03:30 lestye wrote: I thought the title was King In the North? Granted Davos isn't a Northman so I understand if he fucked it up. It was mostly him saying “Girl, you’re trying to hard” and also making a meta joke about Dany’s 17 titles, which is an evergreen meme. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On August 01 2017 03:28 Plansix wrote: Battles in movies and TV are blocked in story boards to serve the narrative, rather than realistic logistics. The taking of Casterly Rock is a prime example of this. In real version of that story is that they take the castle, hang out and confirm that the Jamie abandoned the castle a week later when. Then, before they can board their ships, they get blockaded. But that requires three separate scenes, with establishing shots, dialogue and staging. So they do it all in one scene because it is a really minor plot point. Important info, Casterly Rock fell, but Unsullied are trapped there until King’s Landing falls. Well I wasn't really talking about logistics. I think its a minor area that too a large extent can be minimized. Instead the main problem is: (a) Attacking Casterly Rock instead of Kings landing is absolute nonsense when its gonna result in death human lifes regardless of what you do. Tyrions argument made zero logical sense and was more about the writers not wanting Danerys to win the war too easily. (b) Euron's small iceland apparently consists of superhumans. Even if we accept the premise that the events just occured over a month or so, let's just look at what the super humans accomplished ever since Euron was crowned king: 1. Built a thousands ships (or something like that - just building 1 battle ship IRL takes a year+). 2. Sail to kings landing and create alliance. 3. Magically attack and easily win the battle over the rebellion greyjoys and dorne while barely losing causalities in the proces (at least it appears that way). 4. Go back to kings landing. 5. Sail to Casterly Rock and attack the ships (also magically happen to be at the right time). So yes, this is like watching a superhero show without the FPV of the superhero(es). (c) The whole Tyrell army was just death/afk and couldn't defend Highgarden at all. Not even live through a siege. I get that Randall's army acconted for a decent percentage, but you would still expect that they had some minimal defense (at war) to defend against the lannister army. Shouldn't they have an army of 30k+? (d) Queen Cersei now appear to have support despite her previously being extremely unpopular. But I guess her killing the relgious leaders + popular queen margaery? Or do they not know she did it? This isn't clear, but apparently her rise in popularity seems unbelieveable. (e) Randall supporting the Lannister also seems unlikely, but its w/e. And in contrast to S1-S4 you just didn't have all of these decisions by the major actors that made no sense. Overall you understood why the different alliances acted the way they did, and there were no superhero-events. However, every big event in S5-S7 has had multiple elements that made it unbelieveable. (e) Weren't they sieging kings landing? If so how did Jamie Lannister get out? How did Eurons fleet get from kings landing? Ok this is more about logisitcs but from a strategic perspective, what the hell is the purpose behind this siege? (f) Lannister shouldn't actually have any money at all to acquire a decent army giving that they were ruined and the iron bank supported Stannis. But I guess its ok when you can win the war by being allied to Eurons superhero army. So yes, the less you think about the show, the better it gets, because as a drama show its atrocious. This qualitity of writing would never made the show popular in the first place. The reason it "works" now is because we are into the characters and want to know how it ends. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1947 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On August 01 2017 03:53 Plansix wrote: There were a whole bunch of dead people in the ground when they took Highgarden. And i don't think anyone loves Cersei. I think they are afraid of her, since she blew up a larger number of her enemies. When army sizes or any type of strategic realism makes sense and the lannister + tarly army easily can conquer Highgarden, then show is no longer a good drama show. Does Randyll fear the Lannister or what exact reason does he have to support her? He is allied with the Tyrells and their army size is far far superior. It's like 150k+ men + 3 dragons against like 10-15k Lannister army? + the iron icelands. Is he that deseperate to be crowned King of the reach? if his army size is so significant that seems weird given that he in the previous war could have turned against the Tyrells and probably made a similar alliance. It makes no sense that he wants to turn on them now when the lannister alliance army is still heavily outnumbered. Further, the tyrell have money, and one of the previous points of the show was that money can buy you armies. So why isn't the iron bank supporting the tyrell? All of this "investment" nonsense is ridiciulous, they are just spewing money away to the likely loser. And if you tyrell don't need funding from the iron bank because they have lots of money, they could perhaps use that to buy mercanies and defend highgarden? There is just nothing about the show that makes any type of sense. I am not really sure if you are trying to defend it or not. Because admittely it can be entertaining if you don't "analyze it", but my point is how it differs heavily since S4. Because the show back then was worth analyzing. A proper (war/fantasy) drama show has army battle decisions that makes sense. I don't neccsarily need to watch 30+ minutes of a battle - a summary is acceptable, but it needs to be believeable. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 01 2017 04:12 Hider wrote: When army sizes or any type of strategic realism makes sense, then the lannister + tarly army easily can conquer Highgarden, then show is no longer a good drama show. Does Randyll fear the Lannister or what exact reason does he have to support her? He is allied with the Tyrells and their army size is far far superior. It's like 150k+ men + 3 dragons against like 10-15k Lannister army? + the iron icelands. Also the tyrell have money, and one of the previous points of the show was that money can buy you armies. So why isn't the iron bank supporting the tyrell? All of this "investment" nonsense is ridiciulous, they are just spewing money away to the likely loser. And if you tyrell don't need funding from the iron bank because they have lots of money, they could perhaps use that to buy mercanies and defend highgarden? There is just nothing about the show that makes any type of sense. I am not really sure if you are trying to defend it or not. Because admittely it can be entertaining if you don't "analyze it", but my point is how it differs heavily since S4. Because the show back then was worth analyzing. Its been years of protracted war. There are no armies worth talking about to buy. That is the point of the series, that the all the great houses are slowly being bled dry of what makes them great. And the Iron bank isn’t going to back tyrell because tyrell doesn’t need their money. Banks only invest is people who need the investment. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
Its been years of protracted war. There are no armies worth talking about to buy. Now you are just making stuff up for the sake of defending the writing The lannister mercaniries weren't killed when they won kings landing. Stannis got mercanaries as well. Go to essox if you want to acquire an army - and don't even attempt to argue that the logistics of acquiring essox mercenaries is difficult when the premise of the show is that teleporting is possible. Regardless you have no basis for that claim and given the importance of "money" in the show, it would seem like something (that if it was true) would have been pointed out. And we should have received a new update on army sizes (that was something which was pointed out in the early seasons of the show). When certain rules previously are used in the show you can't magically assume that those rules no longer apply just so you can defend the writing. And the Iron bank isn’t going to back tyrell because tyrell doesn’t need their money. When you make investments you don't support those who are broke and have no army (unless the expected return is very high). You support those who (a) are likely to win the war with your funding and (b) are likely to pay you back. Also, what is even the point about supporting kings landing with money if there are no mercenaries to acquire (accepting your baseless premise). Is it just to buy weapons? Clearly the Iron bank is aware that the lannister army is still heavily outnumbered. So unless they could buy 10s of thousands of mercenaries, they would still likely lose. This isn't clear and the more likely thing is that the premise of the show still is that you need money to win wars. And if Tyrells have money, they should win the war. The writiers are just bending the rules so Danerys army doesn't win too easily. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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cmdspinner1
140 Posts
In real wars Generals and rulers make mistakes and illogical moves all the time also because there is limited information on which they must base their strategies on. In real wars most things don't go about as a historian would have done it in retrospect. So I wouldn't overanalyze the Wars and battles in Game of thrones. | ||
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