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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
The Way I see it: Daenerys whole fleet sailed together until Dorne, where it split: some went on with the unsullied towards casterly rock, and others returned with the sand snakes towards kings landing.
The returning party gets ambushed and defeated by Euron, who, having his prize, returns with a few ships to King's landing to have a parade. The rest of his fleet moves on under command of some trusted captain to sink the rest of Daenerys fleet which was little crewed and stationary while their occupants took casterly Rock.
There, no magic teleporting, at least in this instance. And Highgarden's fall isn't farfetched, given that most of its army had left to siege King's landing, and Tyrel's betrayal.
People criticizing the ballista as a a dumb weapon to fight dragons: it probably will turn out to be ineffective, to the surprise of qyburn and cercei. Don't take at face value what characters say in character, it's not as if an omniscient narrator is the one saying these things
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France7248 Posts
the movement of the armies in this war doesn't make any sense
also, what happened to Tyrell's army? Unsullied had a way through the sewers, but how do you explain the Lannisters taking a castle so easily?
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I guess Tarly family is one of the most powerful bannermans of Tyrels, and they got switched to Cersei, dunno if she promised Highgarden reward
and Jaime used the same "trick" with armies as Rob Stark did to him in s2 or s3
on the other hand it feels almost too forced, writers are taking away all the council from Dany which makes Jon the only ally possible
i'm seriously gonna miss Queen of Thornes, for me she was on of the best characters so far
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On July 31 2017 21:58 Yhamm wrote:
the movement of the armies in this war doesn't make any sense
also, what happened to Tyrell's army? Unsullied had a way through the sewers, but how do you explain the Lannisters taking a castle so easily?
Tarly opened the castle as his betrayal opening move maybe? That sounds plausible enough
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On July 31 2017 21:58 Yhamm wrote:
the movement of the armies in this war doesn't make any sense
also, what happened to Tyrell's army? Unsullied had a way through the sewers, but how do you explain the Lannisters taking a castle so easily?
It was a shitty, poorly designed castle not really built for modern war? They skipped the 2 days it took them to break the city? The city surrendered to exchange for the safety of the people in it?
And armies sneaking past each other is a thing in this era of warfare. I know we all play a lot of Total War games, but that isn’t a 100% accurate simulation of anything.
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On July 31 2017 21:47 Shock710 wrote:
How does jamie order the march of a ton of lanister forces from castely rock all the way to highgarden with no one spotting it. Wasnt Rob's version on a smaller and closer scale.
Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done.
All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden.
Euron fleet followed Unsullied fleet, taking the same route, destroys the ships. Dont see a problem there either.
You can still argue that Jamie should not be so quick to meet up with the army as he came from from KL that is a little farther away. But it it is still a rather mild case of teleporting since we dont know the time frame of anything.
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Does anyone got a feeling that since plotline moved from the actual game of thrones to whitewalkers and dragons - both Littlefinger and Varys are sentenced?
Next ep preview:
+ Show Spoiler +There is a familiar curved dagger of valyrian steel and Bran just got back to Winterfell 
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The scene with Jamie in kings landing was a bit of a stretch, time wise. But armies are slow on foot and have to carry food/supplies with them. Small groups of people on horseback are fast. He could have meet the army party way. The thing was have learned is that we cannot measure time my Cercis's hair.
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On July 31 2017 22:26 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 21:47 Shock710 wrote:
How does jamie order the march of a ton of lanister forces from castely rock all the way to highgarden with no one spotting it. Wasnt Rob's version on a smaller and closer scale. Who says noone was spotting it? All of the things shown happen in a pretty large time frame. In the weeks it took the Unsullied fleet to reach Casterly Rock Lannisters can have marched their army to Highgarden, it is actually not that far. Heck they could even have left Casterly Rock just before the Unsullied arrived. There is still nothing the Unsullied could have done. All it needs for that story to work is that the Unsullied were unaware of the Lannister army leaving while they were on their ships. Then Tarly army teams up with Lannisters and beats Highgarden. Euron fleet followed Unsullied fleet, taking the same route, destroys the ships. Dont see a problem there either. You can still argue that Jamie should not be so quick to meet up with the army as he came from from KL that is a little farther away. But it it is still a rather mild case of teleporting since we dont know the time frame of anything.
i mean the unsullied couldnt do anything about it, but that information of the lansiter army leaving castely rock and moving to highgarden surely would have been useful to danny but it seems like she was blind sided by it, she could have helped out the tyrells with either dragons or drothraki, surely she would have done something if she had know?
Olena could have ran away with from soliders, i mean its lucky she had a peaceful death it could have been way worse.
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They are really speeding up the plotlines since last season.
Wish they took their time could gotten probably 2 more seasons of it.
Don't get me wrong It's still good but they are kinda rushing to the finish line.
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Decent episode, the shots are sometimes really incredible. The show does look fantastic.
The writing is still mediocre though, a lot of people already talked about the general army movement and army sizes, etc.
Personally i am more angry at them for the stupid greyscale plotline, that stuff was such a waste and didn't go anywhere. Unless Sam actually made a mistake and now it spreads, but i doubt it.
The dialogue i found lacking here and there, some really on the nose stuff again (like Dany wording it "don't judge the daughter for the sins of her father" (paraphrased), the same way Jon worded his speech i winterfell, yes we are that dumb cmon...) Other weird things as well, really takes me out from time to time.
I like that Bran seems to be removed from human emotions, he becomes Doctor Winterfell. I like my godlike characters like that. Ofc there really was no real buildup for that and one can criticize that, but hey that's how the show rolls atm.
Hopefully they will develop that further though.
Dany's scenes are hard for me to enjoy at all because Emilia Clarke just plays so mediocre. Always like the spoiled brat, no range of emotions at all, it's really bland. It's annoying.
Cersei's scenes were the best this episode by far. Lena is a great actress and that stuff simply matters. Hopefully the Iron bank plotline will get somewhere. RIP Sandsnake and Ellaria, really scary to think about their faith in the dungeon tbh.
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By the way, I really think Mycroft is plotting something.
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My guess is younger sandsnake gonna survive somehow, and it must be Bronn related, because who else?
They could've kill both Ellaria and Tyene instantly, but instead just a poisoning which might give some hope and antidote.
And I was thinking about Sam sharing valyrian sword with Jorah, or they simply forgot to develop such small plotline o.o
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I doubt we will see Ellaria and Tyene again tbh. Seemed like the end for both of them, would be a good one as well imo
I mean apparently Sam's father doesn't care for the sword either, this is going nowhere :D
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And I thought Valyrian Sword is a symbolic thing for every big house, Rindell Tarly should be as hard as Tywin in terms of a character, but he simply forgot bout it o.o
Let's assume leaving Tyene and her boobies alive is a fan service. Together with Bronn they had a potential :D
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On July 31 2017 23:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I doubt we will see Ellaria and Tyene again tbh. Seemed like the end for both of them, would be a good one as well imo
I mean apparently Sam's father doesn't care for the sword either, this is going nowhere :D
Yeah there's no way. These first 3 episodes are clearly and very harshly are about killing off characters that they don't know how to weave interestingly into the climax of the show.
On July 31 2017 22:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 21:58 Yhamm wrote:
the movement of the armies in this war doesn't make any sense
also, what happened to Tyrell's army? Unsullied had a way through the sewers, but how do you explain the Lannisters taking a castle so easily?
It was a shitty, poorly designed castle not really built for modern war? They skipped the 2 days it took them to break the city? The city surrendered to exchange for the safety of the people in it? And armies sneaking past each other is a thing in this era of warfare. I know we all play a lot of Total War games, but that isn’t a 100% accurate simulation of anything.
Yeah I get this in principal, but Dany's intelligence has been so laughable bad at every turn just to steer the plot to Cersei's armies being on even footing with Dany's it's pretty ridiculous. It's so forced and transparent that it really hurts the show.
So far there's been no scouting on Euron's fleet twice or the entire Lannister army. Meanwhile Euron & Jamie knows perfectly the enemy's moves despite how illogical those moves are (lets split up our forces on opposite sides of the country with no plan on how to reinforce or supply the army and lets sail an entire army rather than have them march through allied lands (keep in mind that Highgarden is pretty far south/close to Dorne...)
It also just feels really unbelievable that these single blows to Dorne/Tyrell armies would be the end of the entire region's support for Dany.
It's all just *so* very rushed that it loses it's credibility. And even with a 'plausible' explanation for Euron's magical fleet it's still not that great. Especially since Euron has now sailed past an occupied Dragonstone 2-3 somehow. The whole plan of "blockade King's Landing" makes no sense if you aren't going to blockade ship too...
That said the Dragonstone scenes were pretty great, the Jon/Dany/Tyrion dynamics are the sort of thing that made the show really good in the first place and there's some intrigue around how the characters will continue to interact going forward (even though it's pretty obvious they'll eventually ally up)
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I thought there was a decent chance Sam had caught the greyscale (conspicuously no skin showing in any of the shots) but then realized that's basically how everyone there dresses. And he shook Jorah's hand, which would be really dumb if he had contracted greyscale and knew it.
On August 01 2017 00:09 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 23:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I doubt we will see Ellaria and Tyene again tbh. Seemed like the end for both of them, would be a good one as well imo
I mean apparently Sam's father doesn't care for the sword either, this is going nowhere :D Yeah there's no way. These first 3 episodes are clearly and very harshly are about killing off characters that they don't know how to weave interestingly into the climax of the show. Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 22:08 Plansix wrote:On July 31 2017 21:58 Yhamm wrote:
the movement of the armies in this war doesn't make any sense
also, what happened to Tyrell's army? Unsullied had a way through the sewers, but how do you explain the Lannisters taking a castle so easily?
It was a shitty, poorly designed castle not really built for modern war? They skipped the 2 days it took them to break the city? The city surrendered to exchange for the safety of the people in it? And armies sneaking past each other is a thing in this era of warfare. I know we all play a lot of Total War games, but that isn’t a 100% accurate simulation of anything. Yeah I get this in principal, but Dany's intelligence has been so laughable bad at every turn just to steer the plot to Cersei's armies being on even footing with Dany's it's pretty ridiculous. It's so forced and transparent that it really hurts the show. So far there's been no scouting on Euron's fleet twice or the entire Lannister army. Meanwhile Euron & Jamie knows perfectly the enemy's moves despite how illogical those moves are (lets split up our forces on opposite sides of the country with no plan on how to reinforce or supply the army and lets sail an entire army rather than have them march through allied lands. It also just feels really unbelievable that these single blows to Dorne/Tyrell armies would be the end of the entire region's support for Dany. It's all just *so* very rushed that it loses it's credibility. And even with a 'plausible' explanation for Euron's magical fleet it's still not that great. Especially since Euron has now sailed past an occupied Dragonstone 2-3 somehow. The whole plan of "blockade King's Landing" makes no sense if you aren't going to blockade ship too... That said the Dragonstone scenes were pretty great, the Jon/Dany/Tirion dynamics are the sort of thing that made the show really good in the first place and there's some intrigue around how the characters will continue to interact going forward (even though it's pretty obvious they'll eventually ally up)
I feel like the best explanation I can think of for how thoroughly and completely Dany's moves are being anticipated are that someone in her camp is a spy and they're saving that for a big reveal. Euron's and Cersei's moves just seem too perfectly executed to counter a somewhat irrational actor (imagine how catastrophically Cersei's moves would have gone if Dany had planned all this in Dorne and just moved all her forces as one).
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I really don’t find it that unrealistic or unbelievable. Invasion from across oceans are nearly impossible, historically. The entire season has been about how Dany's plans to avoid using the dragons has made her life harder. As everyone said, she could take kings landing if she wanted. But it would mean the deaths of countless people and likely cost a lot. The setbacks have been low hanging fruit and Jamie being willing to sack his own castle to pin down party of her army.
Prediction: Bet that big horse army rides to fight Jamie and his army head on with the dragons at their back. Maybe Jon Snow helps somehow.
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On August 01 2017 00:17 Plansix wrote:
I really don’t find it that unrealistic or unbelievable. Invasion from across oceans are nearly impossible, historically. The entire season has been about how Dany's plans to avoid using the dragons has made her life harder. As everyone said, she could take kings landing if she wanted. But it would mean the deaths of countless people and likely cost a lot. The setbacks have been low hanging fruit and Jamie being willing to sack his own castle to pin down party of her army.
Prediction: Bet that big horse army rides to fight Jamie and his army head on with the dragons at their back. Maybe Jon Snow helps somehow.
Yeah but the way they've written it is just so incredibly bad compared to a huge host of more plausible ways to write it, especially with how quickly they've had to move through the motions ruining any chance to ground the whole thing any better.
Like it was always in the plan to have the Tyrells march north and join the siege of King's Landing, but then why do the Dorne need to be shipped instead of just joining the two armies together? Why is Dany totally uninterested in the Stormlands considering they are/were Baratheon controlled (the show never mentions the castle post-Stannis) and would make a ton of military sense to conquer?
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EPT
