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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On August 03 2017 04:32 Reaps wrote:
To be honest the whining wasn't much better in this thread during seasons 1-3 either.
Can't help but feel people make the mistake of comparing a tv show to a book and expect the same amount of nuance.
Why do you think we're making mistakes by comparing a tv show vs a book? That's our high standarts, we want things better not worse. Earlier seasons had less quality then books sure, but not for much, those seasons had much more complicated plotlines in comparison to what we got now, it is just different.
And honestly you can't make a fair comparison between this season and any other weird tv series like Spartacus. But if you do - GoT wins flawlessly in every aspect, even in terms of complexity.
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On August 03 2017 06:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 04:32 Reaps wrote:
To be honest the whining wasn't much better in this thread during seasons 1-3 either.
Can't help but feel people make the mistake of comparing a tv show to a book and expect the same amount of nuance. Why do you think we're making mistakes by comparing a tv show vs a book? That's our high standarts, we want things better not worse. Earlier seasons had less quality then books sure, but not for much, those seasons had much more complicated plotlines in comparison to what we got now, it is just different. And honestly you can't make a fair comparison between this season and any other weird tv series like Spartacus. But if you do - GoT wins flawlessly in every aspect, even in terms of complexity.
Because the books by definition will always be more thought out, more detailed. Books don't have a time limit unlike tv shows, imagine if GRRM had only one year to write each book.
I just never understood how people can really compare the two media like that.
My point is, given the circumstances, the majority of the complaints in this thread just comes across as whining, and its always the same whining every week. Of course there are also legitimate complaints but honestly a lot just seems to be bitching for the sake of it.
Personally, although the show has certainly dropped off a little since S4, they are doing a decent job for the time and budget they are given, but that's just me.
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On August 03 2017 07:06 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 06:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On August 03 2017 04:32 Reaps wrote:
To be honest the whining wasn't much better in this thread during seasons 1-3 either.
Can't help but feel people make the mistake of comparing a tv show to a book and expect the same amount of nuance. Why do you think we're making mistakes by comparing a tv show vs a book? That's our high standarts, we want things better not worse. Earlier seasons had less quality then books sure, but not for much, those seasons had much more complicated plotlines in comparison to what we got now, it is just different. And honestly you can't make a fair comparison between this season and any other weird tv series like Spartacus. But if you do - GoT wins flawlessly in every aspect, even in terms of complexity. Because the books by definition will always be more thought out, more detailed. Books don't have a time limit unlike tv shows, imagine if GRRM had only one year to write each book. I just never understood how people can really compare the two media like that. My point is, given the circumstances, the majority of the complaints in this thread just comes across as whining, and its always the same whining every week. Of course there are also legitimate complaints but honestly a lot just seems to be bitching for the sake of it. Personally, although the show has certainly dropped off a little since S4, they are doing a decent job for the time and budget they are given, but that's just me.
Fair point.
Although I'm not sure how can we separate constrctive critique from whining or vice versa. That's because we all got our unique definition of whining and critique. To make a fair comparison we need something close to similar at this point, but it's hard to find something like GoT.
Mostly people around this topic are bitching about Euron/Victarion symbiote and his ubiquitous navy, which is reasonable at least. Small mistakes and holes are still enjoyable though, because we love GoT.
I don't remember for sure but it wasn't the same amount of whining after red wedding episode for example. It wasn't even close back in days i'd say, but i'm too lazy to check it 
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On August 03 2017 07:19 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 07:06 Reaps wrote:On August 03 2017 06:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On August 03 2017 04:32 Reaps wrote:
To be honest the whining wasn't much better in this thread during seasons 1-3 either.
Can't help but feel people make the mistake of comparing a tv show to a book and expect the same amount of nuance. Why do you think we're making mistakes by comparing a tv show vs a book? That's our high standarts, we want things better not worse. Earlier seasons had less quality then books sure, but not for much, those seasons had much more complicated plotlines in comparison to what we got now, it is just different. And honestly you can't make a fair comparison between this season and any other weird tv series like Spartacus. But if you do - GoT wins flawlessly in every aspect, even in terms of complexity. Because the books by definition will always be more thought out, more detailed. Books don't have a time limit unlike tv shows, imagine if GRRM had only one year to write each book. I just never understood how people can really compare the two media like that. My point is, given the circumstances, the majority of the complaints in this thread just comes across as whining, and its always the same whining every week. Of course there are also legitimate complaints but honestly a lot just seems to be bitching for the sake of it. Personally, although the show has certainly dropped off a little since S4, they are doing a decent job for the time and budget they are given, but that's just me. Fair point. Although I'm not sure how can we separate constrctive critique from whining or vice versa. To make a fair comparison we need something close to similar at this point, but it's hard to find something like GoT. Mostly people around this topic are bitching about Euron/Victarion symbiote and his ubiquitous navy, which is reasonable at least. Small mistakes and holes are still enjoyable though, because we love GoT. I don't remember for sure but it wasn't the same amount of whining after red wedding episode for example. It wasn't even close back in days i'd say, but i'm too lazy to check it
To be honest, the Red Wedding was one of the few scenes i actually enjoyed in the TV show more over the books, it was just so much more brutal.
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On August 03 2017 07:21 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 07:19 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On August 03 2017 07:06 Reaps wrote:On August 03 2017 06:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On August 03 2017 04:32 Reaps wrote:
To be honest the whining wasn't much better in this thread during seasons 1-3 either.
Can't help but feel people make the mistake of comparing a tv show to a book and expect the same amount of nuance. Why do you think we're making mistakes by comparing a tv show vs a book? That's our high standarts, we want things better not worse. Earlier seasons had less quality then books sure, but not for much, those seasons had much more complicated plotlines in comparison to what we got now, it is just different. And honestly you can't make a fair comparison between this season and any other weird tv series like Spartacus. But if you do - GoT wins flawlessly in every aspect, even in terms of complexity. Because the books by definition will always be more thought out, more detailed. Books don't have a time limit unlike tv shows, imagine if GRRM had only one year to write each book. I just never understood how people can really compare the two media like that. My point is, given the circumstances, the majority of the complaints in this thread just comes across as whining, and its always the same whining every week. Of course there are also legitimate complaints but honestly a lot just seems to be bitching for the sake of it. Personally, although the show has certainly dropped off a little since S4, they are doing a decent job for the time and budget they are given, but that's just me. Fair point. Although I'm not sure how can we separate constrctive critique from whining or vice versa. To make a fair comparison we need something close to similar at this point, but it's hard to find something like GoT. Mostly people around this topic are bitching about Euron/Victarion symbiote and his ubiquitous navy, which is reasonable at least. Small mistakes and holes are still enjoyable though, because we love GoT. I don't remember for sure but it wasn't the same amount of whining after red wedding episode for example. It wasn't even close back in days i'd say, but i'm too lazy to check it To be honest, the Red Wedding was one of the few scenes i actually enjoyed in the TV show more over the books, it was just so much more brutal.
Yea, can't say I did enjoy it, but it was spectacular for sure, shocking and totally unexpected for me.
The same thing was with Viper vs Mountain :O
I've read all the books after s4 so it was like four very interesting seasons for me, sometimes brutal but still exciting.
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On August 03 2017 07:06 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 06:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On August 03 2017 04:32 Reaps wrote:
To be honest the whining wasn't much better in this thread during seasons 1-3 either.
Can't help but feel people make the mistake of comparing a tv show to a book and expect the same amount of nuance. Why do you think we're making mistakes by comparing a tv show vs a book? That's our high standarts, we want things better not worse. Earlier seasons had less quality then books sure, but not for much, those seasons had much more complicated plotlines in comparison to what we got now, it is just different. And honestly you can't make a fair comparison between this season and any other weird tv series like Spartacus. But if you do - GoT wins flawlessly in every aspect, even in terms of complexity. Because the books by definition will always be more thought out, more detailed. Books don't have a time limit unlike tv shows, imagine if GRRM had only one year to write each book. I just never understood how people can really compare the two media like that. My point is, given the circumstances, the majority of the complaints in this thread just comes across as whining, and its always the same whining every week. Of course there are also legitimate complaints but honestly a lot just seems to be bitching for the sake of it. Personally, although the show has certainly dropped off a little since S4, they are doing a decent job for the time and budget they are given, but that's just me.
I agree with you. Everytime I go into this thread there is always whining and from the same people saying nearly the same thing as the previous week. "The writing is so weak, so awful." Pretty annoying, wish we could just discuss the episode and not always the same "Writing is weak, if only the books had been done this would be better."
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Nobody is stopping you guys from starting a discussion, the fun thing about normal forums instead of reddit is that you can simply read all the stuff because nothing is up-/downvoted.
I only ever see complaints about the complaints which then say you would love to simply discuss it, well then do so.
There surely would be people joining when they read it.
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What if they just showed up every week and critiqued the negative posters with the exact same criticisms over and over?
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On August 03 2017 09:05 Plansix wrote:
What if they just showed up every week and critiqued the negative posters with the exact same criticisms over and over?
They can do whatever they want but at least criticizing the show is on topic. Saying it is the same criticism over and over again, well if the new episode has similar weaknesses then it's legit to point it out.
Especially when it is actually important to the plot and not "nobody is wearing a hat". I don't know if you actually believe that the criticism is on that nitpicky level though, i kinda doubt it because it's obviously not (for the most part).
Again, anybody who actually wants to discuss specific things should simply do so, i am sure people would join in.
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The not wearing a hat joke is a shot at people who complain about realism and logic being thrown away. In reality, the Starks have no ears due to poor headwear.
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I realize that it's a joke, but your joke misses the point
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Just a heads up the HBO hack seems to have been far worse that realize so Spoilers are sure to surface if that is the case. Be wary.
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On August 03 2017 10:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I realize that it's a joke, but your joke misses the point
My joke is on point, it isn't my fault your sense of humor is broken. Don't get me started on the Unsullied's comically large shield and renaissance fair armor with no equipment and one spear each. Only one tiny spear and huge shield.
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On August 03 2017 03:24 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 02:27 MassHysteria wrote:
Is this the best season of the series so far? I don't think so...My favorite quality of the show has always been the character development and dialogue between them. But I also think that the people who like it or have nothing bad to say about it have just learned to avoid this thread.
Criticism is an easy thing to do IMO (this thread shows that) and people posting good things about a show can only go so long (not interesting). It's quite possible to write extremely interesting criticisms without being negative at all. It's just an exploration of the text. Like think of any classic novel or book of poetry and find all the essays and books of criticism written about them. It's not inherently negative. The problem is someone can say "I thought this scene was great because it portrayed X by doing Y and Z" then you get a response from someone saying "No that whole scene was stupid because of this 1+1=3 element in it" despite the fact that that element is inessential and irrelevant. I have seen so much uninteresting negativity. Just because you can make a logical argument that a flaw exists does not mean you've discovered an interesting critique. Flaws are left in on purpose out of convenience and viewers who can't learn when to overlook them are just not the right audience.
I agree, I actually deleted the word "negative" from my original post b/c it wouldn't convey the sentiment I was going for. I should have also changed "criticism" to "critiquing" on second thought, as the first one kind of implies negativity.
Edit:added full post
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I try to go through this thread reading the comments of like minded (mostly positive) people but the overload of negativity and people arguing about how only an idiot could like this kinda ruins the episodes for me.
Its like having a fancy 8 course dinner with a bunch of people and everyone enjoyed the first few courses thoroughly and everyone knows that it all became a bit less refined after the 4th/5th course but most people just want to enjoy the rest of the evening and the good parts of the food but you have like 3 people sitting their angrily saying how the food sucks, the chefs are hacks, and the service is horrible after every bite they take. You might ignore it at first but at some point you're like ffs would you give it a rest and let at least some of us enjoy it? It which point they would say you're not obliged to listen to them but to people like us talking about it is half the fun.
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On August 03 2017 10:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Just a heads up the HBO hack seems to have been far worse that realize so Spoilers are sure to surface if that is the case. Be wary.
Yea, someone leaked a lot of information, not the whole episodes though, I've seen Olenna "spoiler" before ep3 but never took it seriously :/
It needs to be very careful with surfing internet right now, and never touch any GoT video on YT and other places, just to make sure
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On August 03 2017 10:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 10:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I realize that it's a joke, but your joke misses the point My joke is on point, it isn't my fault your sense of humor is broken. Don't get me started on the Unsullied's comically large shield and renaissance fair armor with no equipment and one spear each. Only one tiny spear and huge shield.
TBH I don't get the point; the point that sticks out would be that you can't tell the difference between things that are illogical for convenience or cinematic purposes and things that are illogical or character inconsistent that drive the plot.
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On August 03 2017 23:51 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 10:41 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2017 10:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I realize that it's a joke, but your joke misses the point My joke is on point, it isn't my fault your sense of humor is broken. Don't get me started on the Unsullied's comically large shield and renaissance fair armor with no equipment and one spear each. Only one tiny spear and huge shield. TBH I don't get the point; the point that sticks out would be that you can't tell the difference between things that are illogical for convenience or cinematic purposes and things that are illogical or character inconsistent that drive the plot.
Because those are subjective. Just because a lot of people in the thread say “that is so out of character, look at my logic and reason” doesn’t make the statement less subjective. Look at the discussion about the secret entrance to the sewer. People say it is out of character for Tyrion to build it, that he wanted to please his father. But his father also didn’t approve of whoring, so why did Tyrion do that at all? Maybe he designed the fortress and also secretly wanted to screw over his father? Maybe that is why he hatched the terrible plan to attack the Rock in the first place, for the joy of knowing his father’s castle would be sacked? You can argue both sides of this and they can both be true, because that is how motivation works.
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On August 04 2017 00:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2017 23:51 Logo wrote:On August 03 2017 10:41 Plansix wrote:On August 03 2017 10:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I realize that it's a joke, but your joke misses the point My joke is on point, it isn't my fault your sense of humor is broken. Don't get me started on the Unsullied's comically large shield and renaissance fair armor with no equipment and one spear each. Only one tiny spear and huge shield. TBH I don't get the point; the point that sticks out would be that you can't tell the difference between things that are illogical for convenience or cinematic purposes and things that are illogical or character inconsistent that drive the plot. Because those are subjective. Just because a lot of people in the thread say “that is so out of character, look at my logic and reason” doesn’t make the statement less subjective. Look at the discussion about the secret entrance to the sewer. People say it is out of character for Tyrion to build it, that he wanted to please his father. But his father also didn’t approve of whoring, so why did Tyrion do that at all? Maybe he designed the fortress and also secretly wanted to screw over his father? Maybe that is why he hatched the terrible plan to attack the Rock in the first place, for the joy of knowing his father’s castle would be sacked? You can argue both sides of this and they can both be true, because that is how motivation works.
It's subjective if the complaint is valid, but that doesn't mean it's subjective if the complaint is of the same nature as wearing a hat or not wearing a hat. Even if the complaint isn't a good one or people disagree, it's still a complaint over Tyrions character which is relevant to the story where hats are just... not.
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EPT
