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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On June 15 2015 18:37 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2015 18:21 BluzMan wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously discussing if Stannis is not dead. He's no use to anyone now, he has zero assets and no friends to ransom, his Red Priestess abandoned him, and, above all, Brienne is a remorseless killer who swore to see him dead. Stannis is gone for good, this is the only way his story makes any sense. Keeping him alive in any manner would be a kick in the balls both to the viewer and to the God of Common Sense. Then what was the point of his storyline throughout the entire season? It changed nothing.
What was the point of Robb Stark's whole rebellion? Red Wedding itself was the point, that's what, it's good enough on it's own to be a worthy conclusion. The point of Stannis' storyline was to make the viewer feel a certain way, which, judging from the amount of people who defend an obviously irrational version of events, it accomplished fully.
The only magic Melisandre ever worked was poison immunity and the assassination of Renly. While grand feats for a person, those a relatively little on the realm scale. Other than that, the only thing she made well was promises and we're now witnessing the consequences of believing in promises backed only by what you see in the fire.
If anything, Stannis got Melisandre to castle Black, where the real champion for the Lord of Light lies (khem..) in wait.
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On June 15 2015 18:49 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2015 18:37 Spaylz wrote:On June 15 2015 18:21 BluzMan wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously discussing if Stannis is not dead. He's no use to anyone now, he has zero assets and no friends to ransom, his Red Priestess abandoned him, and, above all, Brienne is a remorseless killer who swore to see him dead. Stannis is gone for good, this is the only way his story makes any sense. Keeping him alive in any manner would be a kick in the balls both to the viewer and to the God of Common Sense. Then what was the point of his storyline throughout the entire season? It changed nothing. What was the point of Robb Stark's whole rebellion? Red Wedding itself was the point, that's what, it's good enough on it's own to be a worthy conclusion. The point of Stannis' storyline was to make the viewer feel a certain way, which, judging from the amount of people who defend an obviously irrational version of events, it accomplished fully. The only magic Melisandre ever worked was poison immunity and the assassination of Renly. While grand feats for a person, those a relatively little on the realm scale. Other than that, the only thing she made well was promises and we're now witnessing the consequences of believing in promises backed only by what you see in the fire. If anything, Stannis got Melisandre to castle Black, where the real champion for the Lord of Light lies (khem..) in wait.
To move the story forward. To put the Boltons as Wardens of the North. To show the consequences of breaking one's oath.
Stannis in S5? Most everything he does is related to taking Winterfell.
- Stays at Castle Black to rest his troops and prepare
- Marches on to take Winterfell
- Burns his daughter to gain the favor of the Lord of Light, thus saving his army and a lot more people (at least in his mind)
- Reaches Winterfell. Dies.
What has changed? His entire house is wiped out. That's about it. The Boltons' situation does not change. His men die, the others leave. He saved the Wall, but that was the previous season. Sansa and Theon seemingly escape, but he's dead so they're not going to him.
I fail to see what his death brings here. It just looks like a ministory within the season with little to no impact. The only other impact I can think of is it gets Davos/Melisandre to the Wall, but meh. One step forward two steps back.
I'm not saying he can't be dead. He likely is. I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense for him to die. Doesn't bring much at all.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On June 15 2015 18:57 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2015 18:49 BluzMan wrote:On June 15 2015 18:37 Spaylz wrote:On June 15 2015 18:21 BluzMan wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously discussing if Stannis is not dead. He's no use to anyone now, he has zero assets and no friends to ransom, his Red Priestess abandoned him, and, above all, Brienne is a remorseless killer who swore to see him dead. Stannis is gone for good, this is the only way his story makes any sense. Keeping him alive in any manner would be a kick in the balls both to the viewer and to the God of Common Sense. Then what was the point of his storyline throughout the entire season? It changed nothing. What was the point of Robb Stark's whole rebellion? Red Wedding itself was the point, that's what, it's good enough on it's own to be a worthy conclusion. The point of Stannis' storyline was to make the viewer feel a certain way, which, judging from the amount of people who defend an obviously irrational version of events, it accomplished fully. The only magic Melisandre ever worked was poison immunity and the assassination of Renly. While grand feats for a person, those a relatively little on the realm scale. Other than that, the only thing she made well was promises and we're now witnessing the consequences of believing in promises backed only by what you see in the fire. If anything, Stannis got Melisandre to castle Black, where the real champion for the Lord of Light lies (khem..) in wait. To move the story forward. To put the Boltons as Wardens of the North. To show the consequences of breaking one's oath. Stannis in S5? Most everything he does is related to taking Winterfell. - Stays at Castle Black to rest his troops and prepare - Marches on to take Winterfell - Burns his daughter to gain the favor of the Lord of Light, thus saving his army and a lot more people (at least in his mind) - Reaches Winterfell. Dies. What has changed? His entire house is wiped out. That's about it. The Boltons' situation does not change. His men die, the others leave. He saved the Wall, but that was the previous season. Sansa and Theon seemingly escape, but he's dead so they're not going to him. I fail to see what his death brings here. It just looks like a ministory within the season with little to no impact. The only other impact I can think of is it gets Davos/Melisandre to the Wall, but meh. One step forward two steps back. I'm not saying he can't be dead. He likely is. I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense for him to die. Doesn't bring much at all.
It makes even less sense for him to live. Maybe Stannis being irrelevant in the end is the very message the show tried to deliver?
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OK finally a good episode again.
I will start with my Jon Snow theory: All the Starks got their own direwolf in season one. Theese wolves share their destiny with their owners. Aryas wolf is lost, like she is. Sansas was sacrificed to satisfy the king like Sansa was. Robbs was betrayed and killed in a cage, like Robb was locked in the wedding and killed. We did not see Ghost in this episode, thus I'm not sure Jon is dead. Mellisandre might revive him.
Dannny dropped something before the Khalessar surrounded her. I belive it was her wedding ring? The Khalessar probably will join her, or she will marry their Khal, since she's technically single atm.
But what annoyed me the most was Arya/Sansa. What happened to them. In my eyes Sansa and reek comitted suicide, but i understand that others say they survived. Im not sure. And will Arya now be a blind assassin? Could work. However I knew at once that she was the last girl in that scene. And it was as awesome as I hoped. But what will become of them? We will know in 10 months.
Stannis is probably dead. Like Oberyn last season this season built him up as a great character, only to have him die by his biggest characterflaw. Oberyn was overconfident. Stannis would not be stopped by anything in his quest to be king.
And i think the Cersei scene was worse then the rape scenes in this show so far.
Anyways, Bran the dragonrider will save the day next season  Or die miserably. One can only hope
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I fail to see what his death brings here. It just looks like a ministory within the season with little to no impact. The only other impact I can think of is it gets Davos/Melisandre to the Wall, but meh. One step forward two steps back.
I'm not saying he can't be dead. He likely is. I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense for him to die. Doesn't bring much at all.
Well the death of Stannis was by Briennes hand. Brienne held her word to Renly. It solidifies her character. She will keep trying to hold her word to Sansas mother also. I think the death of Stannis is good for Briennes character development
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 15 2015 18:57 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2015 18:49 BluzMan wrote:On June 15 2015 18:37 Spaylz wrote:On June 15 2015 18:21 BluzMan wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously discussing if Stannis is not dead. He's no use to anyone now, he has zero assets and no friends to ransom, his Red Priestess abandoned him, and, above all, Brienne is a remorseless killer who swore to see him dead. Stannis is gone for good, this is the only way his story makes any sense. Keeping him alive in any manner would be a kick in the balls both to the viewer and to the God of Common Sense. Then what was the point of his storyline throughout the entire season? It changed nothing. What was the point of Robb Stark's whole rebellion? Red Wedding itself was the point, that's what, it's good enough on it's own to be a worthy conclusion. The point of Stannis' storyline was to make the viewer feel a certain way, which, judging from the amount of people who defend an obviously irrational version of events, it accomplished fully. The only magic Melisandre ever worked was poison immunity and the assassination of Renly. While grand feats for a person, those a relatively little on the realm scale. Other than that, the only thing she made well was promises and we're now witnessing the consequences of believing in promises backed only by what you see in the fire. If anything, Stannis got Melisandre to castle Black, where the real champion for the Lord of Light lies (khem..) in wait. To move the story forward. To put the Boltons as Wardens of the North. To show the consequences of breaking one's oath. Stannis in S5? Most everything he does is related to taking Winterfell. - Stays at Castle Black to rest his troops and prepare - Marches on to take Winterfell - Burns his daughter to gain the favor of the Lord of Light, thus saving his army and a lot more people (at least in his mind) - Reaches Winterfell. Dies. What has changed? His entire house is wiped out. That's about it. The Boltons' situation does not change. His men die, the others leave. He saved the Wall, but that was the previous season. Sansa and Theon seemingly escape, but he's dead so they're not going to him. I fail to see what his death brings here. It just looks like a ministory within the season with little to no impact. The only other impact I can think of is it gets Davos/Melisandre to the Wall, but meh. One step forward two steps back. I'm not saying he can't be dead. He likely is. I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense for him to die. Doesn't bring much at all. It's almost like it wasn't the story of Stannis, but the story of Melisandre and the red god.
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hilarious, u people have learn't nothing from watching this show. John snow is dead 99%, not coming back ever. Stannis is dead 95% chance, not coming back. The starks still have rickon and sansa. It seems like that if sansa is saved, she will go to the wall because she thinks john snow is there and still alive.
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On June 15 2015 19:09 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2015 18:57 Spaylz wrote:On June 15 2015 18:49 BluzMan wrote:On June 15 2015 18:37 Spaylz wrote:On June 15 2015 18:21 BluzMan wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously discussing if Stannis is not dead. He's no use to anyone now, he has zero assets and no friends to ransom, his Red Priestess abandoned him, and, above all, Brienne is a remorseless killer who swore to see him dead. Stannis is gone for good, this is the only way his story makes any sense. Keeping him alive in any manner would be a kick in the balls both to the viewer and to the God of Common Sense. Then what was the point of his storyline throughout the entire season? It changed nothing. What was the point of Robb Stark's whole rebellion? Red Wedding itself was the point, that's what, it's good enough on it's own to be a worthy conclusion. The point of Stannis' storyline was to make the viewer feel a certain way, which, judging from the amount of people who defend an obviously irrational version of events, it accomplished fully. The only magic Melisandre ever worked was poison immunity and the assassination of Renly. While grand feats for a person, those a relatively little on the realm scale. Other than that, the only thing she made well was promises and we're now witnessing the consequences of believing in promises backed only by what you see in the fire. If anything, Stannis got Melisandre to castle Black, where the real champion for the Lord of Light lies (khem..) in wait. To move the story forward. To put the Boltons as Wardens of the North. To show the consequences of breaking one's oath. Stannis in S5? Most everything he does is related to taking Winterfell. - Stays at Castle Black to rest his troops and prepare - Marches on to take Winterfell - Burns his daughter to gain the favor of the Lord of Light, thus saving his army and a lot more people (at least in his mind) - Reaches Winterfell. Dies. What has changed? His entire house is wiped out. That's about it. The Boltons' situation does not change. His men die, the others leave. He saved the Wall, but that was the previous season. Sansa and Theon seemingly escape, but he's dead so they're not going to him. I fail to see what his death brings here. It just looks like a ministory within the season with little to no impact. The only other impact I can think of is it gets Davos/Melisandre to the Wall, but meh. One step forward two steps back. I'm not saying he can't be dead. He likely is. I'm just saying that it doesn't make much sense for him to die. Doesn't bring much at all. It's almost like it wasn't the story of Stannis, but the story of Melisandre and the red god.
That only really works though if Jon isnt dead though becuase otherwise Melisandre and the red god have nowhere else to go next season.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Mel arriving back at the wall, with her idea of Stannis as Azor Ahai shattered, is just too convenient to pass off as coincidence.
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Yes, but as a general rule, the obvious is the least likely to happen in Game of Thrones.
Maybe Melisandre tries to resurrect Jon but is discovered while doing it.
Or she tries it and nothing happens.
Also, who needs an Azor Ahai if they have Bran??
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Stannis suffered total defeat. He must be dead but dunno why they didnt show him getting gutted. Myrcella is dead or what ?
Got spoiled like ages ago of Jons death on twitch chat, but i still think he could be resurrected. So convenient the red witch is in the keep right now.
Overall not a great season. Not bad but certainly one of my least favorite seasons.
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The more i think about the jon snow situation the more confused i get, reading everyones thoughts on here both sides seem to make sense, like red lady needing someone to lead the fight against the whitewalkers so therefore brining back jon would work.
Also i have this little theory where like its like a rpg game resurrecting people costs mana, burning people (kings blood) gives you mana and the developes make it that by burning there is no body left for u to resurrect therefore u cant just have infinte mana so long as the mana u get from the body is less than casting the spell, rofl so basically if he wants jons blood for w/e killing him like that is not really good.
But then i also wonder what really pushed alister over the edge to do that, as much as he is a dick i didnt really see him as one to break oaths (i imagine killing a brother of the night watch is against the oath) like he let jon take over, he let jon kill that bald dude and even seem to show some approval, he opened the gates too. It looked like he was going along with it even tho he hated it.
Doesnt not opening the gates and killing him like this become kind of the same thing probably even worse cause now the wildlings are on the other side, unless the nightswatch is going to backstab the wildlings next season and try to kill them all.
So maybe the firelady did push alister on to the side of killing jon, im very torn on whats going to happen jon coming back alive i think would be nice as i really like him like what is going to happen to the whole nights watch now, blame it on the wildlings? i forgot to mention i totally belive the bejen story i even thought that it would be bejen in wildling clothes but then i saw the tratior sign and i thought oh shit they beat up bejen for going to the wildling side...then jon got stab and i was sad 
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Oh wow. As much as I critizised ep09, ep10 made up for it. Game of Thrones manages to render me speechless like no other show or movie.
I didn't expect Stannis to be roflstomped like nobody's business. He was overrun by his own cavalry mercenaries, right? Did the Boltons buy them off, or was it actually... Littlefinger? If it was Littlefinger, he might use them to backstab the Boltons and take Winterfell for himself. We may see Melisandre's vision of burning Bolton banners come true after all.
Cersei got off fairly easily. I thought she was going to be sentenced to death, with only perhaps a trial by combat with the zombie Mountain as a way out. Instead, she got a haircut and walked through town naked. Humiliating, yes, but it could have been worse. Cersei was shown having sex a few times, but she was never naked. Now, they overdid it with a fully nude scene that was three times longer than it needed to be. Weird.
Jon Snow's death took me by surprise. I was convinced he had plot armor. My mistake. Some think he'll be resurrected, and I have to agree. There's still the Wall, the wildlings and the White Walkers to be covered. With Jon dead and Sam in the academy, there would be no plot device to show that, nobody even recognizing the Walker threat, and Melisandre and Davos would just be left without a purpose.
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Wow fantastic finale I love it!
Arya: Very cool that she finished the job on stupid Meryn and I loved all the stabbing. She did a great job acting out that scene. I am a little bit confused on the faceless man stuff but eh I like that there's some imagination left for the viewer. Her story has been awesome so far and nothing should change in the next season.
Bran/Rickon: Like I said before, completely weird timeline. Uninteresting story for me so don't really care.
Jon: WHY?? T_T Fucking I hate Olly and Alister Thorne so much, Thorne especially, tied most hated character with Jofferey when he was still alive. I also believe he might come back, but if not, RIP. It was real Jon Snuh and now you can join Ned and hopefully find out about your mother.
Sam: Fuck yes on becoming a maester.
Stannis: Good fitting death for him, and I don't believe he's coming back. That's the last Baratheon then, wonder what will happen to his House? Who will fight to control Dragonstone and Storm's End?
Davos: Who will he serve now? Poor man I feel for him.
Melisandre: She looks kind of broken, perhaps doubting her own abilities.
Sansa/Theon: Sad hot bitch #1 Miranda died but happy for Reek --> Theon, though it happend kinda fast. The way they held each other's hands and the looks they had on their faces, it was almost as if they made the same jump before when they were kids playing in the snow. Not sure if Theon will still try to go home and get in contact with his sister.
Boltons: I wonder what will happen next episode on #keepingupwiththeboltons
Brienne/Podrik aka "The man, the myth, the legend": Don't really like her that much tbh, guess she'll probably run into Sansa and Theon.
Jaime: Man what a fucking scene, I was so happy for him, then...gg daughter
Dorne: I suppose war is coming, though I thought the whole Dorne thing was kind of poorly done. But bad pussy girl = my new favorite now that Miranda is dead.
Khaleesi: SO FUCKING PUMPED the Dothraki are back! No idea if the horde she encountered is friend or foe. Also Drogon is a badass dragon.
Mereen cast: I love Tyrion and Varys, so glad they are back together talking on the castle walls. Just like old times  Greyworm lines are always kinda cringe-worthy. I see him in my head as a leader, and not how they portray him in the show. It's like he just learned to talk everytime he says something.
Cersei: Not sure wtf happened but now she's back, and with Ser Gregor 2.0, we should see plenty of these annoying fatih militant fuckers getting slaughtered next season. I dislike King's Landing's populace in general, what a shitty place.
Margaery: Hottest prisoner alive. No idea what to expect of the Tyrells.
Littlefinger: Eagerly awaiting his next plot
That's all the characters we have left I think. Thanks for a great season guys, see you next year!
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On June 15 2015 19:48 Nesserev wrote:
Hmmm, I think Stannis received an almost-perfect ending, and his story throughout the season was fairly well written. A lot of people seem to want him go down swinging, but the man lost his battle a long time ago. He was already broken in spirit, and in the end, also physically broken. A heroic dead would not have been fitting. If you want to complain: Brienne magically popping up, and the way that they portrayed his death (POV + black screen) were kinda lame.
The big problem of this episode was that they pushed (almost?) all storylines, too fast, taking away 'gravity' from the scenes.
I was a stannis fan but i thought his ending was appropriate as well. His defeat was to be expected, even if he won he would presumably get crushed by the vale. I also like how they made Shireens sacrifice all for nothing. That seemed realistic to me, but i would have thought they would get a little more out of it than just some weather changing. (unless that was not magic and just a coincidence.)
I thought Brienne popping up was ok, she just scoured the battlefield after the battle had finished and managed to find Stannis, which isn't too unlikely considering he only had about 500men left. It is kind've strange that Stannis managed to escape into the woods after the cavalry rolled over him though.
Also, it doesn't seem like a good idea for darrio and lord friendzone to go off on a trip with each other.
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I just want Jon Snow to become a white walker leader and conquer Westeros with the wights. Dragon girl is the fire, so he has to be the ice. Jon Snow coming back through Melisandre would be ok too I guess, he might lead the wildlings and at least get back Winterfell, the night's watch obviously released him from his duty as Lord Commander. Not sure of Bran helping Jon in some way is possible. Anyway Jon Snow will be back I think, but it might take while.
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Oh boy, where to begin.
Sad that Stannis came to such a sudden and short end. He deserved better for being the last of the actual kings.
They could have atleast given Sansa a rope. Esp after the other girl fell to her death, we are now to believe the snow caught her fall from a 10 foot wall?
Arya blind, oh well she will find a way to deal with it.
Tyrion back to doing what he does best, yay.
Only Dany can manage to be snuck up on by an entire khalasar and not notice.... Atleast I guess she will gain another army to complement her unsullied.
Cersei gets the most time out of all the storylines? Ofc there was nude I guess but kinda sad when everyone else could use the time so much more.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO JOHN!!!!! fu bastards, may the walkers take you all.
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Rough 2 weeks for Team Stannis...
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does recently falling snow actually act as like some kind of pillow? i the only time ive experienced snow walking around it was much harder than i thought ur feet sank a bit but not much more than sand on a beach and it was pretty hard after the first 2cms imagine landing down would at the least break ur legs like it did to bran (but he didnt have snow?)
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EPT
