EPTYou quote a lengthy post and your only reply is 'The prequels are shit though'.
You value a trilogy that doesn't make any sense over one who had a real frame. But hey, new CGI is better than old CGI, that's apparently sufficient for some.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED - Page 8
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
You quote a lengthy post and your only reply is 'The prequels are shit though'. You value a trilogy that doesn't make any sense over one who had a real frame. But hey, new CGI is better than old CGI, that's apparently sufficient for some. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27340 Posts
On December 23 2019 11:03 Erasme wrote: Kamino got destroyed. You're hating a lot on stuff you apparently don't understand. Maybe you should rewatch the prequels. You quote a lengthy post and your only reply is 'The prequels are shit though'. You value a trilogy that doesn't make any sense over one who had a real frame. But hey, new CGI is better than old CGI, that's apparently sufficient for some. Me? I said plenty else besides that. What is it I’m not understanding? The Prequels have all of the flaws frequently cited nowadays about the new trilogy and others beside that. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14207 Posts
And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote: He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote: He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. Sorry, but that is bullshit. The ending is what JJ Abrams wanted. He specifically shoved the emperor down our throats, because he wanted the story to go that way. That is the main reason this movie is a complete mess. JJ obviously didn't like how TLJ went, so he decided to basically retcon everything and tell his story. As a result you have this pile of garbage that is completely disjointed with the previous movies (even with TFA) and doesn't even make sense on its own. I wonder why did he take the job at all. | ||
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On December 23 2019 16:07 Pr0wler wrote: Sorry, but that is bullshit. The ending is what JJ Abrams wanted. He specifically shoved the emperor down our throats, because he wanted the story to go that way. That is the main reason this movie is a complete mess. JJ obviously didn't like how TLJ went, so he decided to basically retcon everything and tell his story. As a result you have this pile of garbage that is completely disjointed with the previous movies (even with TFA) and doesn't even make sense on its own. I wonder why did he take the job at all. Well it wasn't going to make sense anyways after RJ did his retcon hack job. Might as well add to the incoherence. Rise of the Retcons indeed. Also, JJ couldn't do what he wanted (if he even knew. Mr Mystery Boxman.) I've said from the beginning, after hearing Palps laugh, the return of Palps is a demonstration that there is a Snoke-sized hole in the franchise. RJ killed Sauron in the Two Towers, made Saruman a child to be pitied, and the Ringwraith into punching bags. Would the film be materially different if there was no Palps, but Snoke on the throne and would it be materially different if Rey was the granddaughter of Snoke or some rando powerful Jedi? Probably not. Can't the same with Luke's final confrontation against his father- Lucas made that relationship count. On December 23 2019 11:03 Erasme wrote: Kamino got destroyed. You're hating a lot on stuff you apparently don't understand. Maybe you should rewatch the prequels. You quote a lengthy post and your only reply is 'The prequels are shit though'. You value a trilogy that doesn't make any sense over one who had a real frame. But hey, new CGI is better than old CGI, that's apparently sufficient for some. Not in the movies was Kamino destroyed. If you watch the movies straight through you would guess that the Empire still have clones at their disposal, except that no-one ever mentions clones except in the past tense of an old war. There's other errors- making Anakin actually from Tatooine isn't great as it seems like hiding on your father's planet is not the best idea- there are some ideas in the OT that needed to be massaged (I wrote a whole blog on it), but the prequels largely are just as likely to create new problems as not... but nothing on the scale of TLJ. The bigger problem is simply making the galaxy feeling tiny- 3PO and R2 are everywhere and Palpatine runs both sides of the chess board. Concerning TLJ, "unexpected" and "disrespecting the universe" are the main critics, it's not hard to postulate what was expected was a remake of the V with the same terrible writing/narrative. Too bad I am terrible in english, I'd have postulate as a scenarist, would have been ez money. It's crazy how people can become conservative and even reactionnary with any novelties when they begin to like something But that means in storytelling terms, it is also fairly conservative- it's just that it's a little more attractive to people that don't like some pretty key elements of what made Star Wars, well Star Wars. All that talk about the Force and the Jedi being 'problematic' because it's some sort of exclusive aristocracy- so those sorts of people loved the idea of the Sith and Jedi ending so that everyone in the galaxy has some sort of enhanced Force abilities. Great- but that's like ending wizards and witches in the Harry Potter universe so that all the muggles are vaguely more magical, but no one does the really powerful spells due to even distribution of magic. Interesting story, but not a Harry Potter story. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17843 Posts
On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote: the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. Why I agree that Jar Jar is very, very bad, I don't agree on the total abominations part. This new trilogy is a total abomination. The prequels had plenty of bad but they also had some good in it and with the exception of midichlorians and immaculate conception didn't shit on the OT characters. I could totally dig Anakin falling because he was rash and unruly teenager, also because he was too old when he started his training so wasn't completely brainwashed by the Jedi. Obi-Wan was awesome and it was good to see him both as padawan and master. Also, the OT had some pretty damn well made fight scenes, but most of all some semblance of a plot. The only good thing in the new films is that they got back to practical effects. That's it. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18742 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4383 Posts
Im so glad I was not the only one thinking that way...seeing the pre-release reviews one would think this was a great movie :/ | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27340 Posts
On December 23 2019 19:16 Manit0u wrote: Why I agree that Jar Jar is very, very bad, I don't agree on the total abominations part. This new trilogy is a total abomination. The prequels had plenty of bad but they also had some good in it and with the exception of midichlorians and immaculate conception didn't shit on the OT characters. I could totally dig Anakin falling because he was rash and unruly teenager, also because he was too old when he started his training so wasn't completely brainwashed by the Jedi. Obi-Wan was awesome and it was good to see him both as padawan and master. Also, the OT had some pretty damn well made fight scenes, but most of all some semblance of a plot. The only good thing in the new films is that they got back to practical effects. That's it. Anakin destroying the Droid Control Centre is in my view the worst thing in all the films, god. Dislike that more than even Jar Jar. It sort of did sort of shit on the OT by over explaining things or giving backstory that doesn’t quite mesh over, to my tastes anyway. If we had only the OT to go off and someone suggested the Jedi were a rigid order who won’t train anyone older than 9 or whatever because it’s too old to brainwash them and they’re not allowed to fuck people, does that really mesh with the mythical hippy vibe the two we see in OT give off? Or Vader being ‘space Jesus’ with Vader in the films, who seems more a general badass head henchman like a Jaws in a Bond film? There are decent elements but the Prequels are horrendously unfocused and fail to deliver on what they’re trying to do. If you’re going to try and do a hero’s fall from grace and a dictator’s rise to power with a collapse of a Republic you really need to execute it well, while still being Star Wars you have to really execute it bloody well or it’ll be a mess. Something tighter that cuts bloat and is more focused on Anakin and Obi-Wan would have been pretty good (to pick one example), as the latter is the most likeable character in the films by far and the former I think was good in the role but hamstrung by terrible dialogue. You could have the training elements, various adventures etc. Instead all the cool stuff you’d like to see is just mentioned by them in the past tense. It’s hard to just forget other properties one has seen. The Clone Wars show actually does show the heroic, rash side of Anakin that makes his fall from grace actually tragic but the Prequels in isolation really don’t execute that at all well. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17843 Posts
On December 23 2019 20:59 Wombat_NI wrote: Anakin destroying the Droid Control Centre is in my view the worst thing in all the films, god. Dislike that more than even Jar Jar. It sort of did sort of shit on the OT by over explaining things or giving backstory that doesn’t quite mesh over, to my tastes anyway. If we had only the OT to go off and someone suggested the Jedi were a rigid order who won’t train anyone older than 9 or whatever because it’s too old to brainwash them and they’re not allowed to fuck people, does that really mesh with the mythical hippy vibe the two we see in OT give off? Or Vader being ‘space Jesus’ with Vader in the films, who seems more a general badass head henchman like a Jaws in a Bond film? There are decent elements but the Prequels are horrendously unfocused and fail to deliver on what they’re trying to do. If you’re going to try and do a hero’s fall from grace and a dictator’s rise to power with a collapse of a Republic you really need to execute it well, while still being Star Wars you have to really execute it bloody well or it’ll be a mess. Something tighter that cuts bloat and is more focused on Anakin and Obi-Wan would have been pretty good (to pick one example), as the latter is the most likeable character in the films by far and the former I think was good in the role but hamstrung by terrible dialogue. You could have the training elements, various adventures etc. Instead all the cool stuff you’d like to see is just mentioned by them in the past tense. It’s hard to just forget other properties one has seen. The Clone Wars show actually does show the heroic, rash side of Anakin that makes his fall from grace actually tragic but the Prequels in isolation really don’t execute that at all well. Clone Wars and Rebels are the best thing to happen to Star Wars on the TV screen. Also, another review of RoS came in: | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
On December 23 2019 16:07 Pr0wler wrote:As a result you have this pile of garbage that is completely disjointed with the previous movies (even with TFA) and doesn't even make sense on its own. I wonder why did he take the job at all. The 1st director had already been fired. There is big, big money in rescuing failed projects. If you pull it off the reputation points you gain can last forever. Just ask Bob Fitch. I love rescuing failed projects. The money is stupid good and I wait until things are so FUBAR-ed its a "no lose" situation for me. The Toronto Raptors were down 85-55 going into the 4th quarter yesterday. The coach threw out 4 bench players with Kyle Lowry and concocted a bizarre double-on-the-ball full court press defense. Talk about fucked. It worked and the Raptors won. Had it failed no one would've cared. It worked. The coach is now a genius. Abrams probably positioned himself to be in a "no lose" situation in the eyes of the execs. Given the cards Abrams and the actors were dealt by upper management and given the current circumstances beyond their control I'd rate their collective performance a 9/10. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote: He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. She specifically didn't kill him, he killed himself with his own lightning. The movie was as good as I could had hoped for. Kylo Ren and Rey were really good and they kept the stupidness to a minimum. A solid 3 for me. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On December 23 2019 21:09 Manit0u wrote: Clone Wars and Rebels are the best thing to happen to Star Wars on the TV screen. Also, another review of RoS came in: + Show Spoiler + A video game reviewer didn't like the movie. This is big stuff. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
On December 23 2019 23:19 Longshank wrote: A video game reviewer didn't like the movie. This is big stuff. i guess this is what you get when Sci Fi movie fans who play video games are expecting "Gone With The Wind". Angry Joe did acknowledge that if you are not a hardcore Star Wars fan and you went into the movie hoping for a good action movie that RoS delivered on that level. Good move by him to acknowledge other perspectives. | ||
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KelianQatar
303 Posts
On December 23 2019 23:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i guess this is what you get when Sci Fi movie fans who play video games are expecting "Gone With The Wind". Baby Yoda would have fixed everything!! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27340 Posts
On December 23 2019 23:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i guess this is what you get when Sci Fi movie fans who play video games are expecting "Gone With The Wind". Angry Joe did acknowledge that if you are not a hardcore Star Wars fan and you went into the movie hoping for a good action movie that it delivered on that level. Good move by him to acknowledge other perspectives. Despite the backlash any time it’s mentioned the fans really are a problem, plus a cottage review industry on YouTube that either rates films as the best or worst things ever and say critics who review films as films are all out of touch. It’s all amplified in a way it didn’t use to be. Can you imagine the Prequels launching in the era of YouTube as we have it now? What do people even want? What even is a Star Wars fan when it encompasses things that are totally tonally different. There’s not enough good sci-fi in films for my particular tastes these days, but when there is something it tends not to do so well commercially. Blade Runner 2049 If people like the political intrigue elements of the Prequels, well if Denis Villeneuve’s upcoming Dune is executed half as well as BR 2049 that should be a great sci-fi film in that vein. The pessimist in me thinks even if it’s great people won’t go out and see it though, people would rather complain that x element isn’t in Star Wars instead of watching the things that are about x element. Abrams Star Wars to me is very like Abrams Trek really. Flawed but pretty enjoyable action fare. I prefer the Wars films because tonally they fit original Star Wars, whereas his Trek is really not like why I like Star Trek. But I still have the shoes to rewatch at least | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
On December 24 2019 00:27 Wombat_NI wrote: There’s not enough good sci-fi in films for my particular tastes these days, but when there is something it tends not to do so well commercially. Blade Runner 2049 interestingly, the 1982 Blade Runner has a very hard core cult following today. However, the 1982 Blade Runner was Harrison Ford's only movie that didn't make 87 Gazillion Bazillion Dollars when it was released. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
Why didn't Sheev just blast the entire rebel fleet out of the sky in episode 6? Apparently he can do that. What's to stop him from just resurrecting himself again? He got thrown into a radiator, was caught in the Death Star explosion which is the size of a moon, and then crashed into the moon of Endor and he came back. That's a lot more deadly than some lightning. Is he just gonna come back in Episode 10? It just further undermines everything accomplished in the OT, everything was meaningless because Sheev lived and still had a fuckhuge fleet that he could use to terrorize the galaxy. This trilogy had no artistic vision or direction from the start. It was obvious when Disney said they'd be having a different director for each movie which is just bound to bring problems because people have their own vision for where a story should go and their ego will make them retcon or throw away plot leads (which both Abrams and Johnson did) and will include spectacle creep because they want to make their own mark on the story. You see this in any kind of long running franchised series | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On December 24 2019 01:49 TomatoBisque wrote: Blaming reception to this movie not being good on youtube reviewers being nitpicky or TLJ is just trying to shift blame and not be critical (although I agree youtube "critics" are generally bad and have created a poor culture). Blaming the poor quality of Youtube reviews on Youtube reviewers being of a very low standard of quality is fair game, though. Overall, the reviews for this movie seem to be about what would be expected for a so-so movie. Taking RT as an example - a generally poor critical reception, but a mostly positive audience one. The opposite of TLJ (though I have no goddamn idea why critics seemed to love that movie). Seems like people generally liked it, but didn't think it was a great movie. The "Youtube consensus" seems pretty far removed from that, with folks who benefit from generating a "worst movie EVER" headline doing just that. Certainly does warrant an eye-roll for all the reviews of that form being spammed here without too much desire to explain one's own take on how the movie was, though. On December 24 2019 00:27 Wombat_NI wrote: Can you imagine the Prequels launching in the era of YouTube as we have it now? Do you really even have to imagine? People cite that RedLetterMedia "review" of the prequels as if it were an authoritative takedown, when it is little more than a lengthy romp that goes on for hours and fails to really get a meaningful point across (often advertised as "it's lengthy, but you just HAVE to watch it" because of its supposed credibility). Arguably this entire generation of Star Wars bashing is just seeking to recreate the fame that that prequel review managed to garner. | ||
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