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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16707 Posts
There was a hint of hope in Sci Fi movies that involved space travel that we soon would be regularly engaged in space travel throughout the solar system. Here is Buzz Aldrin stating in 1994 that humans will be back on the moon by 2010. Today, is a much more cynical time. This puts a damper on a film maker trying to create a futuristic movie that is about hope and optimism. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18407 Posts
It sure did help for star wars but its not the reason the OT is so huge, its because they are great films | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
Edit: just forgot some other gem from TFA: a black guy who main objective is to breath harder and harder. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25315 Posts
On December 24 2019 02:53 LegalLord wrote: Blaming the poor quality of Youtube reviews on Youtube reviewers being of a very low standard of quality is fair game, though. Overall, the reviews for this movie seem to be about what would be expected for a so-so movie. Taking RT as an example - a generally poor critical reception, but a mostly positive audience one. The opposite of TLJ (though I have no goddamn idea why critics seemed to love that movie). Seems like people generally liked it, but didn't think it was a great movie. The "Youtube consensus" seems pretty far removed from that, with folks who benefit from generating a "worst movie EVER" headline doing just that. Certainly does warrant an eye-roll for all the reviews of that form being spammed here without too much desire to explain one's own take on how the movie was, though. Do you really even have to imagine? People cite that RedLetterMedia "review" of the prequels as if it were an authoritative takedown, when it is little more than a lengthy romp that goes on for hours and fails to really get a meaningful point across (often advertised as "it's lengthy, but you just HAVE to watch it" because of its supposed credibility). Arguably this entire generation of Star Wars bashing is just seeking to recreate the fame that that prequel review managed to garner. Points mostly taken, although I do think the RLM videos do a good job in being legitimate criticism sprinkled with things for entertainment’s sake. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17257 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25315 Posts
On December 24 2019 06:22 Manit0u wrote: I guess that the general consensus among hardcore SW fans will be that they'll just not consider ep 7-9 as canon and disregard them completely. I'm not a hardcore fan and even for me those movies now simply do not exist and I can keep my happy SW memories intact. I'm writing it all off as something like the Christmas Special, where it belongs. What is a hardcore SW fan though? They don’t exist in any singular form. Are the prequels non-canon too? How does this all work? I’m not casting aspersions on anyone, this is what happens when you have a giant franchise encompassing all sorts of actually different things. I know guys who proclaim to be huge Star Wars fans for example, but who don’t like the original trilogy. They like all the EU stuff and tend to like the Prequels | ||
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KelianQatar
303 Posts
On December 24 2019 06:33 Wombat_NI wrote: What is a hardcore SW fan though? They don’t exist in any singular form. Are the prequels non-canon too? How does this all work? I’m not casting aspersions on anyone, this is what happens when you have a giant franchise encompassing all sorts of actually different things. I know guys who proclaim to be huge Star Wars fans for example, but who don’t like the original trilogy. They like all the EU stuff and tend to like the Prequels I work with a guy who is a HUGE STAR WARS fan. And by that I mean, he loves all the movies, the lore, the fan fiction and any show related. He will voice if he has any issues, but they are fairly minor. He dresses up in character to see the movie premiers. He took off work last Thursday and Friday to see the latest movie several times. He has the largest Star Wars tattoo that I know of, and I wouldn't be surprised if its a world record, since it takes up his entire back. His office is decorated entirely of star wars items. Maybe we should differentiate between "Huge Star Wars Fans" and "Star Wars Fanatics" ? Other Star wars fans I know, love to talk about the franchise flaws, the inconsistencies, the "sell out", etc. They are still going to pay money to watch this latest movie in the theater. The Star Wars Fan spectrum is Broad and diverse!! | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17257 Posts
Unfortunately for SW George Lucas created an awesome universe but didn't have enough knowledge and/or discipline to keep it together. He's also a control freak so that's why PT turned out how it did. Clone Wars and Rebels, hell, even Rogue One have shown that if you put competent people at the helm you can get a lot of mileage out of the setting. Disney screwed it up big time. They got handed one of the biggest franchises in the world on a silver platter, with a big and interesting universe to build upon. You've got the Jedi, bounty hunters, smugglers, the Hutts, Mandalorians, a metric ton of lore and extra materials to lean upon and you're telling me that this new trilogy, which should have been the icing on the cake to get the hype and money train really rolling is all they could come up with? I would be seriously surprised if some heads at the top wouldn't roll for it, because now SW is probably losing Disney more money than it's making. Seriously, how do you fuck this up? You'd probably have to seriously hate it and try to sabotage it on purpose to get it to the state it's in now. Instead of the biggest payout ever, breaking all of the box office records etc. you've divided your fandom (source of income), estranged a big part of it and got yourself into a corner that will be hard to get out of. It's a fuckup of massive proportions and it'll probably resonate for years in film classes (on how to not go about making a trilogy) and business lessons (on how not to manage a newly acquired existing IP). I'm truly sad about it, because I got some big hopes for Star Wars universe as I kinda like the lore and some of the stories but now I just don't care about it any more. Way to go Disney. Disney will be in a lot of trouble if they don't get their shit together and bring back the creativity. All they're doing now is buying everything out and just releasing live action remakes of old cartoons. I bet Little Mermaid with a black lead will bring them fame and fortune... | ||
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Sermokala
United States13927 Posts
The funny thing is that the same thing happened to the DCEU. They wanted to rush it, copy something without the person they're copying, and lacked the single overall vision of the model they were trying to emulate. Now they've unhooked themselves from the skywalker trilogy of trilogies they can easily just make another trilogy as long as they stick with the "phase" model from marvel. Joh favreau and dave Filoni are the saviors they are looking for. Keep in mind Grand daddy Iger is leaving soon. Big changes are going to be possible soon even for the massive house of mouse. | ||
Falling
Canada11350 Posts
From the sounds of things, the final act of Rise of Skywalker is a big battle with the Emperor's brand new fleets. Is anything done about the First Order fleets (like maybe they collect ALL their ships around the galaxy for the final hurrah- given that the FO has a tendency to put all their eggs in one basket.) Or, did the movie forget about the "First Order reigns supreme" like they forgot about the hyperspace trackers at the end of TLJ? In other words, from the opening crawl of TLJ, the FO has taken over the entire galaxy with their magical fleet- was that fact dealt with or is the rest of the galaxy still under the control of the FO and the movie simply doesn't remember? | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
Putting political agenda in an art piece is not fundamentally wrong, it's been done a million times with varying success. If you screw up the plot and atmosphere and create a myriad of shallow, non-believable characters BECAUSE you sent a political message, then you'll get backlash both for the political stuff and the bad writing. That's what TLJ was and I expect more of the same in episode IX. So any and all spoilers about the positive aspects of the movie besides the good visuals and score are welcome. Please, I don't want to hate SW. I love the extended universe and was so pissed that Disney destroyed the canon. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On December 24 2019 05:45 Wombat_NI wrote: Points mostly taken, although I do think the RLM videos do a good job in being legitimate criticism sprinkled with things for entertainment’s sake. Lol they are the epitomize of toxic incels who follow the trend of "George Lucas raped my Childhood" and the reason why we got a shitty remake. There are one of the main reason sw fanbase is in this reactionnary, toxic state with all the bullying against the actors. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25315 Posts
On December 24 2019 21:41 stilt wrote: Lol they are the epitomize of toxic incels who follow the trend of "George Lucas raped my Childhood" and the reason why we got a shitty remake. There are one of the main reason sw fanbase is in this reactionnary, toxic state with all the bullying against the actors. That’s not really a fair reflection of their content at all. Their ‘Nerd Crew’ series is entirely about parodying a segment of such fanbases, for example. Mike who did the aforementioned prequel reviews is much more of a fan of Star Trek anyway, as is Rich Evans. Jay is pretty ambivalent to both and is more into art house indie fare. Thinking the prequels are bad doesn’t mean you are somehow responsible for the Disney trilogy dropping the ball, never mind all the toxic behaviour you’re talking about. Even if everything you said was correct, which it very much isn’t do we really have to call everything we dislike in terms of ‘incels’, seems the slur de jour coming into 2020 | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25315 Posts
I haven’t seen Solo yet, not the Mandalorian, I thought Rogue One was really good, albeit flawed too. I liked that they injected the element of ruthlessness in the Rebels, as realistically such a group facing an Empire of such power would have to be. I’ve heard really good things about the Thrawn trilogy so intend to get reading that too. One problem of both the Prequels and especially the new trilogy is they have escalated force powers to a crazy degree. I think Vader massacring the rebels at the end of Rogue One is where I personally think is a good balance between a force user being potent and terrifying, but not hitting Neo from the Matrix levels. The possibilities with the universe are insane and it’s baffling how they haven’t really utilised it, hopefully they can do interesting things. I think different shows for people of different tastes is probably the way to go, with the odd movie thrown in. Especially with Disney Plus it seems they’re looking that direction. House of Cards only it’s the rise of Palpatine would be a show I’d watch the shit of for example. Unfortunately there’s prequel canon there so I’m not sure you’d get around it. A romantic comedy centring around C3PO and R2D2 would be delightful. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 24 2019 18:24 TaardadAiel wrote: Haven't watched it yet and for the first time I doubt I ever will. TLJ was one of the worst movies I've seen in the last decade and I'm downright scared of seeing another fiasco like this one. Putting political agenda in an art piece is not fundamentally wrong, it's been done a million times with varying success. If you screw up the plot and atmosphere and create a myriad of shallow, non-believable characters BECAUSE you sent a political message, then you'll get backlash both for the political stuff and the bad writing. That's what TLJ was and I expect more of the same in episode IX. So any and all spoilers about the positive aspects of the movie besides the good visuals and score are welcome. Please, I don't want to hate SW. I love the extended universe and was so pissed that Disney destroyed the canon. I don't know what kind of Star Wars fan you are, or how critical you'd be of its faults. What perhaps might give you some pause is that the consensus seems to be that if you hated TLJ, you probably will like (but not love) this movie - whereas most people who had a favorable opinion of TLJ would be less fond of this one. I personally thought TLJ was abominable, and that this movie, for all its flaws, was quite alright. RoS definitely isn't a politically preachy movie, it's just the more traditional Star Wars done alright but not phenomenally. Its biggest flaw is the pacing, and its most direct analogue in the existing Star Wars fandom is the Dark Empire series. My recommendation is, don't look for spoilers. I made the mistake of reading like 3-4 of them, which kind of ruined the immersion by making me try to anticipate the plot points. The story ended up better than the spoilers in isolation made it look. If you're not the kind of fan who seeks to nitpick every fault, there's going to be a lot of cool stuff to enjoy. It doesn't fail fundamentally as a cinematic work the way that TLJ does; it merely "has faults." JJ, in his usual style, does better with characters than with plot. Almost all the characters get a send-off worthy of their design by the end. My favorite one: + Show Spoiler [Tags just for fun] + Hux. Didn't really like the way he was relegated into a joke role in Ep 8, but this movie rolled with it in a surprisingly amusing way. Demoted in the First Order command and clearly upset about it. Ends up as the spy, with a line that I felt really perfectly encompasses his character: "I don't care if you win, I just want Kylo Ren to lose!" Much as I hate the original character assassination Johnson did, that follow-up is just so perfectly Hux that I can't help but love it. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 24 2019 23:55 Wombat_NI wrote: Tangent here but where does Disney go next? I haven’t seen Solo yet, not the Mandalorian, I thought Rogue One was really good, albeit flawed too. I liked that they injected the element of ruthlessness in the Rebels, as realistically such a group facing an Empire of such power would have to be. I’ve heard really good things about the Thrawn trilogy so intend to get reading that too. What I was actually thinking after watching Ep 9 is that a "Thrawn in the Unknown Regions" work would be really cool. The timeline would put it between the new-canon "Thrawn" book (one of the best works Zahn has done, just about on par with his original trilogy and better than the vast majority of the rest of his books) and the new movie. It could very well be written to tie in the missing link between Thrawn being banished to the Unknown Regions (now, I guess, as a result of Rebels) and Palpatine's master plan playing out on Exegol. I know that a book would 100% be the most competent work on that plot point, but on some level I'd really want a movie or mini series. The only time Disney put Thrawn on "the screen" in any form was the unfortunately very kiddy series that was Rebels. Yes, he was quite a good addition to that series, but there wasn't enough substance to that series to have enough to work with in the first place. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16707 Posts
On December 24 2019 18:24 TaardadAiel wrote: Putting political agenda in an art piece is not fundamentally wrong, it's been done a million times with varying success. If you screw up the plot and atmosphere and create a myriad of shallow, non-believable characters BECAUSE you sent a political message, then you'll get backlash both for the political stuff and the bad writing. That's what TLJ was and I expect more of the same in episode IX. So any and all spoilers about the positive aspects of the movie besides the good visuals and score are welcome. Please, I don't want to hate SW. I love the extended universe and was so pissed that Disney destroyed the canon. ya, The Superman movie franchise was extremely strong at first. It weakened somewhat with Superman3. After that "Superman 4: The Quest For Peace" was quite political and they ended up fucking the Superman movie franchise into the ground for almost 20 years. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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