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On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2019 05:09 Garbels wrote:
Whats up with the ending?
It seems to me like the intended conclusion they want to give the audiene is that the good guys won while in reallity Palpatine got what he wanted, no?
He might not have died exactly like he ordered but I find it hart to believe that his 30 year masterplan war luring someone into his lair with no preparation and hope that they kill you in some speciffic way. How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not.
How is destroying a droid control Center worse than defeating a luke-trained Jedi turned sith in her very first battle? Yeah...
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2019 05:09 Garbels wrote:
Whats up with the ending?
It seems to me like the intended conclusion they want to give the audiene is that the good guys won while in reallity Palpatine got what he wanted, no?
He might not have died exactly like he ordered but I find it hart to believe that his 30 year masterplan war luring someone into his lair with no preparation and hope that they kill you in some speciffic way. How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not.
Didn't the droids kill a bunch of Jedi in the arena on Geonosis? I mean, sustained fire from enough points should be a death sentence for 95% of the Jedi.
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On December 26 2019 01:10 TaardadAiel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2019 05:09 Garbels wrote:
Whats up with the ending?
It seems to me like the intended conclusion they want to give the audiene is that the good guys won while in reallity Palpatine got what he wanted, no?
He might not have died exactly like he ordered but I find it hart to believe that his 30 year masterplan war luring someone into his lair with no preparation and hope that they kill you in some speciffic way. How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not. Didn't the droids kill a bunch of Jedi in the arena on Geonosis? I mean, sustained fire from enough points should be a death sentence for 95% of the Jedi.
The droids almost wiped the jedi out on Geonosis and tons of Jedi died in the clone wars. Wombat_NI is just a prequel hater, you should ignore what he says imo
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Canada8988 Posts
On December 25 2019 10:44 Sermokala wrote:
But they did try to explain the political aspect of it. The whole core of the trilogy is that Palpatine is able to overthrow the republic and turn it into an empire with him and vader through this trade war, with the clone army as his enforcers. This trade war in the first is given massive unexplained importance, why does padme need to sign a treaty, why does a weeklong blockade of an unindustrialized planet equal starvation, the whole way the no-confidence vote is put through is beacuse people want to makes sure something is actually going on with the blockade (wildly reasonable) yet don't believe the two jedi, yet then when the jedi go back (with anikin for some reason) they only send two jedi, the same jedi they apparently don't trust. Politics is at the core of the prequels and its terrible because of it and all the inane shot-reverse shot conversations about it.
I only started in on the first one for the most part because I'd be here all day and write pages and pages if I didn't stop myself at some point. Why does no one question the mysterious clone army? How do they pay for the army and its upkeep? If the separatists were really concerned over trade route taxes why does no one see the fact that its obviously cheaper to compromise on taxes instead of paying for a massive military. Why is everyone okay with the fact that this new clone army is literally a copy of Mandalorians (who devastated the republic in an age past) Why is the jedi suddenly okay with being pressed into being the generals for this army? Ironically the last time the jedi participated in a war like this they had a massive backlash as the jedi who went to war became sith in the same war with the Mandalorians they are now fighting beside.
Again planets are being destroyed and billions apon billions are dieing and for what? oh but thats too much poltiics I guess. Don't even get me started on the worst ever romance and worst ever friendship.
The fact that the hole SW series is launch because of an obsucre conflict about taxation of trade routes and decentralization of the republican system is profoundly funny, we never even get to know for what anyone is fighting for, except that senator ominous phrases is behind it.
The trade federation aren't even that terrible at the start, they just blocade a planet in retaliation to... something? They don't kill anyone until after the planet monarch decided to retake her throne and a 8 years old blew them up. Well ok they try to kill two jedi, that ain't great.
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On December 26 2019 01:15 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2019 01:10 TaardadAiel wrote:On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2019 05:09 Garbels wrote:
Whats up with the ending?
It seems to me like the intended conclusion they want to give the audiene is that the good guys won while in reallity Palpatine got what he wanted, no?
He might not have died exactly like he ordered but I find it hart to believe that his 30 year masterplan war luring someone into his lair with no preparation and hope that they kill you in some speciffic way. How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not. Didn't the droids kill a bunch of Jedi in the arena on Geonosis? I mean, sustained fire from enough points should be a death sentence for 95% of the Jedi. The droids almost wiped the jedi out on Geonosis and tons of Jedi died in the clone wars. Wombat_NI is just a prequel hater, you should ignore what he says imo
I said it was a shared problem with the prequels and the new trilogy, but you chose to focus your point on me disliking the prequels specifically.
How did the droids even do that when outside of that specific scene for the entire rest of the trilogy 1-2 Jedi are basically invincible and chop through droids like they’re casually preparing a meal? Or leap into fast moving space traffic from a great height, fight around ridiculously perilous obstacles floating on lava etc etc? Then in Nu Wars we have Jedi stalling ships mid-flight, Palpatine is apparently capable of destroying the biggest fleet ever assembled by himself etc etc.
Unless basically all of the Jedi who the plot follows in the Prequels are just pretty shit as Jedi go it’s even more jarring to see them all get massacred by the exact same type of troops that are shown to be cannon fodder in most of the rest of the franchise any time a Jedi is about. It’s like they turned off the god mode cheat for a couple of scenes.
Nothing that happens in the Clone Wars redeems the Prequels as stand-alone films, or main films within that franchise.
If anything I dislike the Prequels more having seen the Clone Wars because the latter does a good job on the elements that should have been the focus/executed better in the Prequels and makes the failure to use the opportunity that much more irritating.
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On December 26 2019 02:09 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2019 01:15 sharkie wrote:On December 26 2019 01:10 TaardadAiel wrote:On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not. Didn't the droids kill a bunch of Jedi in the arena on Geonosis? I mean, sustained fire from enough points should be a death sentence for 95% of the Jedi. The droids almost wiped the jedi out on Geonosis and tons of Jedi died in the clone wars. Wombat_NI is just a prequel hater, you should ignore what he says imo I said it was a shared problem with the prequels and the new trilogy, but you chose to focus your point on me disliking the prequels specifically. How did the droids even do that when outside of that specific scene for the entire rest of the trilogy 1-2 Jedi are basically invincible and chop through droids like they’re casually preparing a meal? Or leap into fast moving space traffic from a great height, fight around ridiculously perilous obstacles floating on lava etc etc? Then in Nu Wars we have Jedi stalling ships mid-flight, Palpatine is apparently capable of destroying the biggest fleet ever assembled by himself etc etc. Unless basically all of the Jedi who the plot follows in the Prequels are just pretty shit as Jedi go it’s even more jarring to see them all get massacred by the exact same type of troops that are shown to be cannon fodder in most of the rest of the franchise any time a Jedi is about. It’s like they turned off the god mode cheat for a couple of scenes. Nothing that happens in the Clone Wars redeems the Prequels as stand-alone films, or main films within that franchise. If anything I dislike the Prequels more having seen the Clone Wars because the latter does a good job on the elements that should have been the focus/executed better in the Prequels and makes the failure to use the opportunity that much more irritating.
Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi Wan ran away from two droidekas in the first movie, Obi Wan was captured by a few flying aliens on geonosis. That's just two scenes where the Jedi were not invincible as you claim in the prequels sheesh...
Did you even watch the prequels after the first time or are you just hating on bad memories?
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So now we not only have the OT crowd which views everything after with different standards, the prequels also get defenders who can handwave away potential flaws but not have the same ability for the sequels.
It's just humorous for someone like me who thinks that these films more or less are all about the same (well prequels are actually worse  ) with small variances in strengths / weaknesses.
"They ran away and obi wan got captchured!" apparently counts here while you'd probably not let similar arguments count when it comes to rey and her perceived opness. (and i'd even agree that she could have been written with a little more physical struggle to make her arc better)
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Bulgaria750 Posts
Guys like Obi-Wan, Yoda, Windu and obviously Anakin are considered extremely high-skilled and therefore capable of such feats. The feats themselves weren't particularly interesting in the movies, the high-altitude jump was dumb imo and the duel on Mustafar was exceedingly long so I didn't like them, but I don't think they break the way the universe works or at least not to such extent. Luke did some pretty crazy shit during the speeder bike chase on Endor, too.
Leia floating in hard vacuum and other such stuff is a completely different kind of dumb. The things I mentioned were just not exciting (and they were meant to be, so bad job by the team), this is outrageous. Palpatine destroying a whole fleet with force lightning? What the actual F?
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All I'm hoping for in SW universe right now is that they make a proper show about Quinlan Vos. A Jedi master who was bending the rules, succumbed to the dark side when infiltrating the Sith, had a love affair with Sith Assassin etc. That's an interesting character.
Another interesting one would be Cade Skywalker (Luke's grandson), who got addicted to drugs when he abused them constantly in order to suppress his force powers.
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On December 26 2019 05:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:So now we not only have the OT crowd which views everything after with different standards, the prequels also get defenders who can handwave away potential flaws but not have the same ability for the sequels. It's just humorous for someone like me who thinks that these films more or less are all about the same (well prequels are actually worse ) with small variances in strengths / weaknesses. "They ran away and obi wan got captchured!" apparently counts here while you'd probably not let similar arguments count when it comes to rey and her perceived opness. (and i'd even agree that she could have been written with a little more physical struggle to make her arc better)
"small variances in strengths / weaknesses"? Small? Force lightning entire fleets is small? If that had existed in ep 1-6 there would have been no need for any soldiers
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I was talking about movie quality there, i guess that wasn't clear enough. The only film which stands out a little is ESB and even that one is not nearly as good as people make it out to be.
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On December 26 2019 00:40 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2019 05:09 Garbels wrote:
Whats up with the ending?
It seems to me like the intended conclusion they want to give the audiene is that the good guys won while in reallity Palpatine got what he wanted, no?
He might not have died exactly like he ordered but I find it hart to believe that his 30 year masterplan war luring someone into his lair with no preparation and hope that they kill you in some speciffic way. How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not. How is destroying a droid control Center worse than defeating a luke-trained Jedi turned sith in her very first battle? Yeah...
Because he does it basically by accident? And it’s really silly?
Unless it’s in a film that’s played for comedy, I really hate the ‘someone oblivious or clumsy saves the situation’ trope and the bigger the situation the more irritating I find it. Hence why it’s my least favourite section in the cinematic saga. As I said personal taste.
Also I specifically compared Rey being a good pilot to Anakin being a good pilot. Anakin is less inexplicably OP throughout the whole prequel trilogy though.
At the end of Phantom Menace Anakin, a child has won a pod
race (fine by me), built a robot, destroyed a space station.
Rey is worse in this sense across the trilogy for sure but criticism was right there from when there was only TFA that Rey was totally inexplicably overpowered as if Episode 1 never happened
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The problem with Rey is that with Anakin it was established that he was a good pod pilot despite his age (most likely an affinity Luke inherited). With Rey there's no indication that she can pilot anything since she's just a broke junk-collector and she probably hasn't been anywhere near a working spacecraft her entire life and all of a sudden she's outmaneuvering trained pilots flying top-of-the-line interceptors in an outdated freighter on her first try? Please...
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On December 26 2019 05:41 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2019 00:40 sharkie wrote:On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2019 05:09 Garbels wrote:
Whats up with the ending?
It seems to me like the intended conclusion they want to give the audiene is that the good guys won while in reallity Palpatine got what he wanted, no?
He might not have died exactly like he ordered but I find it hart to believe that his 30 year masterplan war luring someone into his lair with no preparation and hope that they kill you in some speciffic way. How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not. How is destroying a droid control Center worse than defeating a luke-trained Jedi turned sith in her very first battle? Yeah... Because he does it basically by accident? And it’s really silly? Unless it’s in a film that’s played for comedy, I really hate the ‘someone oblivious or clumsy saves the situation’ trope and the bigger the situation the more irritating I find it. Hence why it’s my least favourite section in the cinematic saga. As I said personal taste. Also I specifically compared Rey being a good pilot to Anakin being a good pilot. Anakin is less inexplicably OP throughout the whole prequel trilogy though. At the end of Phantom Menace Anakin, a child has won a pod race (fine by me), built-up a robot, destroyed a space station. Rey is worse in this sense across the trilogy for sure but criticism was right there from when there was only TFA that Rey was totally inexplicably overpowered as if Episode 1 never happened
You make a very good point about Anakin blowing the control ship basically by accident. It was dumb and it was a very unnecessary throwback to Luke blowing up the first Death Star.
But I feel we're criticizing a different kind of bad here. Anakin was, somewhat ineptly, set up as being a great pilot and a mechanical prodigy. He actually spent time on both piloting and making stuff. I wouldn't criticize Rey for being a good pilot herself. But defeating a wannabe Vader with Skywalker blood (midichlorians, what a dumb concept lol) in his veins and Skywalker training with basically no background is something else. Jedi Masters of the Old Republic do extreme feats with a shitload of training at a time where training is done systematically and not by an old, rusty Master on a backward planet. And only the very best of them. Rey just goes OP like that.
Plus, Anakin is not OP as a Force user in TPM. He's an unusually bright child with quick reflexes and a knack for building stuff. He didn't best Maul in a lightsaber duel. And he really did not know what he was doing when he destroyed the control ship. It was dumb and unnecessary, but did not make him OP.
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Which as I said opens actual holes. The Empire in the original trilogy have Stormtroopers who are regular dudes. They have an officer class, some of whom are quite old.
Psh, if you consider that to be a plot hole then hyperspace ramming must have blown your brains out.
This false equivalency argument of "the prequels were bad too" is so old and not even valid. For everything else the prequels did, AT LEAST they told an original story. Not only are the sequels terrible but their plots are almost beat for beat ripped out of the OT.
Force Awakens? Its plot is almost identical to A New Hope, the only thing that's different is who is the mentor role and the fact that the heroine wins her first lightsabre duel in this movie (which is a bad thing from a narrative perspective.)
The Last Jedi, is like a bad parody of Empire Strikes Back. The same general plot is exactly the same with a slight detour to canto bight and with the Throne Room Scene from Return mixed in.
It's too easy to compare Rise of Skywalker to Return of the Jedi when they had to bring back the fucking Emperor just for one more go around.
At least the prequels get credit for not just repeating what the OT did. Like what they did or not they at least get to stand on their own as something unique. These sequels are just bad reboots. There's no rewatchability to any of them when you can just rewatch the OT and have the same story told better.
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On December 24 2019 23:36 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2019 21:41 stilt wrote:On December 24 2019 05:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 24 2019 02:53 LegalLord wrote:On December 24 2019 01:49 TomatoBisque wrote:
Blaming reception to this movie not being good on youtube reviewers being nitpicky or TLJ is just trying to shift blame and not be critical (although I agree youtube "critics" are generally bad and have created a poor culture). Blaming the poor quality of Youtube reviews on Youtube reviewers being of a very low standard of quality is fair game, though. Overall, the reviews for this movie seem to be about what would be expected for a so-so movie. Taking RT as an example - a generally poor critical reception, but a mostly positive audience one. The opposite of TLJ (though I have no goddamn idea why critics seemed to love that movie). Seems like people generally liked it, but didn't think it was a great movie. The "Youtube consensus" seems pretty far removed from that, with folks who benefit from generating a "worst movie EVER" headline doing just that. Certainly does warrant an eye-roll for all the reviews of that form being spammed here without too much desire to explain one's own take on how the movie was, though. On December 24 2019 00:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
Can you imagine the Prequels launching in the era of YouTube as we have it now? Do you really even have to imagine? People cite that RedLetterMedia "review" of the prequels as if it were an authoritative takedown, when it is little more than a lengthy romp that goes on for hours and fails to really get a meaningful point across (often advertised as "it's lengthy, but you just HAVE to watch it" because of its supposed credibility). Arguably this entire generation of Star Wars bashing is just seeking to recreate the fame that that prequel review managed to garner. Points mostly taken, although I do think the RLM videos do a good job in being legitimate criticism sprinkled with things for entertainment’s sake. Lol they are the epitomize of toxic incels who follow the trend of "George Lucas raped my Childhood" and the reason why we got a shitty remake. There are one of the main reason sw fanbase is in this reactionnary, toxic state with all the bullying against the actors. That’s not really a fair reflection of their content at all. Their ‘Nerd Crew’ series is entirely about parodying a segment of such fanbases, for example. Mike who did the aforementioned prequel reviews is much more of a fan of Star Trek anyway, as is Rich Evans. Jay is pretty ambivalent to both and is more into art house indie fare. Thinking the prequels are bad doesn’t mean you are somehow responsible for the Disney trilogy dropping the ball, never mind all the toxic behaviour you’re talking about. Even if everything you said was correct, which it very much isn’t do we really have to call everything we dislike in terms of ‘incels’, seems the slur de jour coming into 2020
Ok fair enough, incel, even if used by liberals and feminists might contain some toxic masculanity.
That said, how do you call a bunch of unhealthy 40-50 yo nerds without cinephile culture who are a spending a (very) large part of their time criticizing with a maximum of bad faith and negativity one of the few things they got in their lives ? It's even becoming their revenue, a revenue based on a resentment toward a saga (filling it with millions of persons) they are supposed to love for god sake, it's both insanely creepy, pathetic and crazy whatever you want to think about it.
And what I say is unfair ? Their fanbase on reddit is the worst of all, just a bunch of 40-50 yo lost in the 80s who deeply hate everything else. These people are the reason why Disney didn't take any risk with TFA and so, you got a bad remake of something which wasn't the masterpiece some ppl born in the 80s think it is. (I am pretty sure I gonna trigger some people here by calling a good and entertaining a familal movie 'not a masterpiece") Just look at the reactions when it came out "oh it really feels like SW 5/5", then ppl realized they were robbed.
The funny thing is reading the review and the fans on the internet surprised me because 90% of the people around me who watched it were baffled to see how bad it was regardless of their age.
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On December 26 2019 05:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:So now we not only have the OT crowd which views everything after with different standards, the prequels also get defenders who can handwave away potential flaws but not have the same ability for the sequels. It's just humorous for someone like me who thinks that these films more or less are all about the same (well prequels are actually worse ) with small variances in strengths / weaknesses. "They ran away and obi wan got captchured!" apparently counts here while you'd probably not let similar arguments count when it comes to rey and her perceived opness. (and i'd even agree that she could have been written with a little more physical struggle to make her arc better)
How dare you, the OT are perfect films!
Nah but being serious, was exactly my point, the finding flaws in one/ignoring them in another. That said one can’t be 100% consistent because despite similarities there are differences (sort of)
OT is solid, good characters, really memorable looking aesthetic. It is simple, the Empire is the Empire and are bad, Rebels are good. There’s this thing called the Force. That’s about it
Prequels. Good moments I do like, but largely horrific dialogue destroys the characters. Tries to expand the universe but in certain areas actively detracts from what I like (Midochlorians and the mystery of the force) or is a convoluted and confusing mess that’s paced horribly (a lot of the rest of the plot). Ewan McGregor’s performance as Obi-Wan as the one relatable human being in this universe is rated highly but really underrated if you consider how bad they’d be without him.
Nu-Wars. Makes zero sense whatsoever. Unlike the OT where there just is an Empire, it has to explain why there is an Empire 2.0 after the last one got destroyed, and subsequently the Empire 3.0 that’s even bigger and more eviller. They don’t even attempt to explain these things. There’s also no consistency of direction whatsoever within even the trilogy itself, never mind the wider universe. Adam Driver basically carries the whole thing as the only vaguely interesting character and his performance is bloody solid.
For me anyway I can rewatch OT and think it holds up pretty well + nostalgia bonus, I just wish there was a high definition version of the original theatrical release. Prequels I like parts but just find mostly bad because of the pacing and dialogue and bad characters, although I haven’t rewatched in a while. New trilogy I enjoyed them all as dumb popcorn flicks in the cinema, but they make zero sense especially when you step out and think about it after. Big chunks don’t even make sense at the time but I did feel the kind of ‘feel’ of Star Wars was at least there.
I have seen TFA and I legitimately don’t know what happens in the film, basically outside a few scenes. If it wasn’t for it being A New Hope 2 I’d have close to zero idea whatsoever.
I think all 3 trilogies are surface level obviously similar but rather different in how their flaws manifest.
OT the only universe we know is the OT and it’s simple. Prequels try to expand it but it’s boring (for me), new trilogy is ‘exciting’ but destroys any kind of consistency or rules of the universe
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On December 26 2019 09:50 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2019 23:36 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 24 2019 21:41 stilt wrote:On December 24 2019 05:45 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 24 2019 02:53 LegalLord wrote:On December 24 2019 01:49 TomatoBisque wrote:
Blaming reception to this movie not being good on youtube reviewers being nitpicky or TLJ is just trying to shift blame and not be critical (although I agree youtube "critics" are generally bad and have created a poor culture). Blaming the poor quality of Youtube reviews on Youtube reviewers being of a very low standard of quality is fair game, though. Overall, the reviews for this movie seem to be about what would be expected for a so-so movie. Taking RT as an example - a generally poor critical reception, but a mostly positive audience one. The opposite of TLJ (though I have no goddamn idea why critics seemed to love that movie). Seems like people generally liked it, but didn't think it was a great movie. The "Youtube consensus" seems pretty far removed from that, with folks who benefit from generating a "worst movie EVER" headline doing just that. Certainly does warrant an eye-roll for all the reviews of that form being spammed here without too much desire to explain one's own take on how the movie was, though. On December 24 2019 00:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
Can you imagine the Prequels launching in the era of YouTube as we have it now? Do you really even have to imagine? People cite that RedLetterMedia "review" of the prequels as if it were an authoritative takedown, when it is little more than a lengthy romp that goes on for hours and fails to really get a meaningful point across (often advertised as "it's lengthy, but you just HAVE to watch it" because of its supposed credibility). Arguably this entire generation of Star Wars bashing is just seeking to recreate the fame that that prequel review managed to garner. Points mostly taken, although I do think the RLM videos do a good job in being legitimate criticism sprinkled with things for entertainment’s sake. Lol they are the epitomize of toxic incels who follow the trend of "George Lucas raped my Childhood" and the reason why we got a shitty remake. There are one of the main reason sw fanbase is in this reactionnary, toxic state with all the bullying against the actors. That’s not really a fair reflection of their content at all. Their ‘Nerd Crew’ series is entirely about parodying a segment of such fanbases, for example. Mike who did the aforementioned prequel reviews is much more of a fan of Star Trek anyway, as is Rich Evans. Jay is pretty ambivalent to both and is more into art house indie fare. Thinking the prequels are bad doesn’t mean you are somehow responsible for the Disney trilogy dropping the ball, never mind all the toxic behaviour you’re talking about. Even if everything you said was correct, which it very much isn’t do we really have to call everything we dislike in terms of ‘incels’, seems the slur de jour coming into 2020 Ok fair enough, incel, even if used by liberals and feminists might contain some toxic masculanity. That said, how do you call a bunch of unhealthy 40-50 yo nerds without cinephile culture who are a spending a (very) large part of their time criticizing with a maximum of bad faith and negativity one of the few things they got in their lives ? It's even becoming their revenue, a revenue based on a resentment toward a saga (filling it with millions of persons) they are supposed to love for god sake, it's both insanely creepy, pathetic and crazy whatever you want to think about it. And what I say is unfair ? Their fanbase on reddit is the worst of all, just a bunch of 40-50 yo lost in the 80s who deeply hate everything else. These people are the reason why Disney didn't take any risk with TFA and so, you got a bad remake of something which wasn't the masterpiece some ppl born in the 80s think it is. (I am pretty sure I gonna trigger some people here by calling a good and entertaining a familal movie 'not a masterpiece") Just look at the reactions when it came out "oh it really feels like SW 5/5", then ppl realized they were robbed. The funny thing is reading the review and the fans on the internet surprised me because 90% of the people around me who watched it were baffled to see how bad it was regardless of their age.
I agree entirely as per most of your post, just not if you’re referring to Red Letter Media specifically. They literally make fun of that culture all the time.
Their opinion on TFA, which correlates pretty strong to mine was largely positive about TFA as a safe ‘feels like Star Wars’ reboot to the franchise. At the time anyway.
Subsequently given the other two films much less positive because they didn’t do anything from a solid enough, safe return to the franchise.
The Last Jedi didn’t fit at all but it was the only one I found interesting in terms of any ideas, even in badly executed form but alas.
Granted I am not well versed in the Extended Universe, where these ideas are also expressed, but as a mainline entry.
People didn’t answer the Rebels call? Maybe most people don’t really care as life under the First Order is largely fine in the galaxy, or Rey can be a powerful force wielder despite lacking any kind of Skywalker (or Palpatine as it turned out)
I actually liked the Luke stuff too, not 100% of how it played out execution wise in the film but the idea that a man whose seen the destruction of the force going into isolation and being more potent as a symbol than as an actual person etc.
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On December 26 2019 00:40 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:On December 23 2019 05:09 Garbels wrote:
Whats up with the ending?
It seems to me like the intended conclusion they want to give the audiene is that the good guys won while in reallity Palpatine got what he wanted, no?
He might not have died exactly like he ordered but I find it hart to believe that his 30 year masterplan war luring someone into his lair with no preparation and hope that they kill you in some speciffic way. How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not. How is destroying a droid control Center worse than defeating a luke-trained Jedi turned sith in her very first battle? Yeah...
Rey is the most OP character ever in the SW universe, she didnt learn a single thing , she knew everything from before, and once she gets some training (even from Leia , whaaattt..? lol) it was like watching Dragon Ball but Over 90000000
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On December 26 2019 06:13 TaardadAiel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2019 05:41 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 26 2019 00:40 sharkie wrote:On December 26 2019 00:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 23:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 25 2019 19:54 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 25 2019 09:49 Erasme wrote:On December 23 2019 15:24 Sermokala wrote:Your post makes me think you didn't understand what was going on in the prequels. The people who were blockading the planet for some unspecified reason other then "Trade" are the same people who ignited the galaxy-spanning war spread out over thousands of planets with billions and billions dead. Why is everyone cool with going along with this massive war over a single planet thats bearly industrialized? And again this war, the war at the core of the prequels, is never elaborated on or explained in any real way. The clone army (that was based on mandalorians who were what boba fet was based on, that turned into the stormtroopers) was straight up Hitler Jugend. The two (really just the one because the final order fleet was made on the sith ice planet) massive fleet came from the fact that the empire was literally a galactic sprawling empire that didn't just poof out of existence after the death star blew up. those fleets had to go somewhere. SW was always like that. the first and third movies where basicaly the same but with different steps. the prequels were total abominations. How much time did they spend with the pod racing scene that makes no sense (god solve the whole betting shenanigans they go through to reach "if we win we get the boy and the parts if we lose you get the rest of the ship") The sheer ammount of lazy "lets sit and talk" scenes that never approch any of the major themes like the actual war. Jar Jar alone should be enough to explain to you why the prequels were so bad. I genuinely need like a few hours to find out why you think the prequels are good. You're lieing to yourself if you think the prequels had a frame with how wildly different the first and the next two were. A brand new stock villian with a lame gimmick lightsaber but at least he talks and has as nonexistent of a backstory. On December 23 2019 09:57 Garbels wrote:On December 23 2019 08:17 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
How did palpatine get what he wanted? his force lightning reflected back onto him and the sith temple was collapsed with his "last order" fleet being destroyed. He wanted rey to kill him and she did. He does not care about the rest. Sure maybe he was banking an his followers to say 7 ave marias to complete the ritual. Since they couldn't he is now dead. Seems so silly but totally in line with the rest of the movie. He wanted her to follow the ritual and "strike him down". I'm not saying its not silly but you need to give it some wiggle room for it trying to create a finale out of the mess that TLJ was. i cba to reply to everything so i'll just take your major points: Jarjar is only seen in the first movie (except for one scene in the 2nd and one in the third) so taking him to say the rest is shit is definitly a bad argument Dont understand why you would shit on the pod racing tho So ye, you take 1h of the first movie to shit on everything else, then you wonder why people don't agree with u, big surprise Theres a scene in the 4th i believe where they explain that a ton of planets got destroyed during the clone wars Trade federation was under the control of Palpatine The prequels had a frame since it was about the rise of anakin and his fall While i agree that the reason of the trade wars arent explained, i'm fairly sure you'd be shitting on the political aspect of it if they spent any amount of time explaining it. I guess most people defending the prequels are just tired of people shitting on it thanks to a youtube video The first hour of the film is pretty illustrative of the Prequels problems though, the pacing is really messy. Phantom Menace takes forever to get going, conversely there isn’t enough stuff fleshing out the central frame as you like to call it, or doing it badly. If they gave more time to Anakin and Obi-Wan together, likewise Padme and do it better then his fall is more believably tragic. Clone Wars did a way, way better job there. What does Palpatine have to offer the Trade Federation anyway? Given that nobody appears to know who he actually is, what cards is he playing with here? Fair play to Lucas for doing something other than good guys have to stop the bad guys and their planet destroying machine, just a pity the films weren’t better. There was plenty of potential squandered because nobody reined him in. Do we get the brash, headstrong, arrogant Jedi doomed to fall to the dark side to leap out of a window into space traffic, or jump into a room of battle droids saying ‘hello there’ or do we get the Jedi who’s supposed to be the wise and reserved one to do it? I’m sure plenty are regurgitating stuff from certain videos now. When I first watched the original RLM it was in the early years of YouTube and it was more cathartic retreading of something I hadn’t lived up to my young hype when I saw it in the cinema and hadn’t quite put my finger on why. I mean like the Prequels by all means of course, just I think they are deeply flawed. Seeing an increasing amount of defence that seems very hipster like (not here just in general), where people criticise the new trilogy for the exact same things the Prequels do which they say are good (Mary Sue characters, out of tone bad attempts at humour etc). That or people who really like the EU tend to defend the Prequels a lot more, perhaps some of the plot holes and weird logic are filled in more if you’ve more exposure to that. I definitely don't see how the prequels and sequels have the same problems. In fact, I'd say their problems are quite different. I don't see a Mary Sue in the prequels that is anything close Rey, nor do I see any mind-numbing pacing problems in the sequels like you do with the political storylines in the prequels. These are just two of many examples. In general I think they don’t tend to share the same core problems, agreed there. Anakin gets his ass kicked throughout the trilogy for sure, and massacres innocents but within the Phantom Menace he has built a functioning protocol droid, destroyed a Droid Control Centre (my personal least favourite thing in all 9 films tbh), so adult Rey being a capable pilot isn’t too crazy, to take a common complaint. I think one actually shared problem is the escalation of force users to being ridiculously overpowered, There is basically no time outside of facing a Sith where a Jedi feels in any kind of peril to any other foe or environmental hazard, I’ve had people claim this is only a new problem with the new trilogy and the Prequels handled it better, which they absolutely did not. How is destroying a droid control Center worse than defeating a luke-trained Jedi turned sith in her very first battle? Yeah... Because he does it basically by accident? And it’s really silly? Unless it’s in a film that’s played for comedy, I really hate the ‘someone oblivious or clumsy saves the situation’ trope and the bigger the situation the more irritating I find it. Hence why it’s my least favourite section in the cinematic saga. As I said personal taste. Also I specifically compared Rey being a good pilot to Anakin being a good pilot. Anakin is less inexplicably OP throughout the whole prequel trilogy though. At the end of Phantom Menace Anakin, a child has won a pod race (fine by me), built-up a robot, destroyed a space station. Rey is worse in this sense across the trilogy for sure but criticism was right there from when there was only TFA that Rey was totally inexplicably overpowered as if Episode 1 never happened You make a very good point about Anakin blowing the control ship basically by accident. It was dumb and it was a very unnecessary throwback to Luke blowing up the first Death Star. But I feel we're criticizing a different kind of bad here. Anakin was, somewhat ineptly, set up as being a great pilot and a mechanical prodigy. He actually spent time on both piloting and making stuff. I wouldn't criticize Rey for being a good pilot herself. But defeating a wannabe Vader with Skywalker blood (midichlorians, what a dumb concept lol) in his veins and Skywalker training with basically no background is something else. Jedi Masters of the Old Republic do extreme feats with a shitload of training at a time where training is done systematically and not by an old, rusty Master on a backward planet. And only the very best of them. Rey just goes OP like that. Plus, Anakin is not OP as a Force user in TPM. He's an unusually bright child with quick reflexes and a knack for building stuff. He didn't best Maul in a lightsaber duel. And he really did not know what he was doing when he destroyed the control ship. It was dumb and unnecessary, but did not make him OP.
Points taken.
I guess it’s just much more jarring to have both a child, but also a child who doesn’t seem to know what the fuck is going on doing such things to me.
But yes you’re right that’s kind of a different complaint to ‘being OP’
Personally I’d have done the Prequels starting from the Clone Wars. Or they begin in full form say halfway through the first film. Anakin is like 17, Obi-Wan and maybe Qui-Gon come to help out on Tatooine to bail out some resistance and Anakin is the only survivor holding out or something, and showcases his force potential there, but maybe does something questionable morally, so the two Jedi have something tangible to debate over whether they should train this guy.
Perhaps the Jedi showed up late and Smi died accordingly so he’s got that bitterness going on about the order and is more skeptical and susceptible to influence. Then perhaps Maul does what he does in the actual Prequels at some point, only an untrained Anakin is hiring. Giving him a chance to witness the potency of the Sith first hand.
Just spitballing fan fic after Christmas booze, and this isn’t even from my extensive note file I have on the topic, new stuff.
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