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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 06 2019 00:45 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2019 11:15 Erasme wrote:On December 05 2019 08:26 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 05 2019 08:20 Erasme wrote:
IDK
at least the new movies will elevate the prequels to a masterpiece If you think any of the new movies are worse than the prequels you need to sit in a room and try to watch those awful prequels again. At least they use sets and stunt performers in the new ones and the directors actually understand how action scenes should be filmed. Lol ahahahah Sets and stunt performers over story and characters.. ? Congrats on the priorities my man The prequels have a story that somewhat holds up, with characters that arent total dumbasses (except the jedis in the 2nd) ewan mcgregor is better alone than anything in the new universe But i'd agree with you, the fact that they used a green screen is definitly why the prequels are worse than the new ones  + Show Spoiler +I mean, ultimately film is a visual medium. When so much of a movie is okay for the time (now bad) CGI, it makes it tough for me to take a film seriously in 2019. Infinite money combined with Lucas' laziness "vision" to create something that aged very poorly. A New Hope's miniatures and matte paintings look like a movie more than 40 years later. The droids and clones...do not. And it certainly didn't help the actors' performances.
If a movie looks bad, it needs a great script or compelling performances. PT has neither of those. For every Ewan McGregor there's three Haydens and Samuels and Natalies. I'm also not sure I would agree the story of the prequels holds up at all (first movie is pointless, second movie is nonsense, third movie's opener makes very little sense without external context, Anakin is never actually a good dude onscreen), but I don't think that discussion would go anywhere.
Yeah, the Anakin change was done very poorly. He massacres a whole Tusken village and in E3 NOBODY CARES. Like... seriously? This is the Republic? This is the Jedi order, peacekeepers and protectors? Even if we accept that Tatooine isn't in the Republic jurisdiction - nobody in the order cares? Also fear/hate brings you to the dark side, that's why we antagonize this youngling(E1) by refusing him so he can go towards the dark side? Jedi council, do you even have brains?
Anyway, in this sense I have to agree, it was lazy-ish, but that comes from the point it had to be continuous with the old trilogy and Lucas isn't a great writer.
Edit> Screw that. Nobody cared in E2 either!!!!! Peace. Keepers. Of. The. Galaxy. Tell that to the dead Tuskens.
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On December 06 2019 18:51 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2019 00:45 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 05 2019 11:15 Erasme wrote:On December 05 2019 08:26 TheTenthDoc wrote:On December 05 2019 08:20 Erasme wrote:
IDK
at least the new movies will elevate the prequels to a masterpiece If you think any of the new movies are worse than the prequels you need to sit in a room and try to watch those awful prequels again. At least they use sets and stunt performers in the new ones and the directors actually understand how action scenes should be filmed. Lol ahahahah Sets and stunt performers over story and characters.. ? Congrats on the priorities my man The prequels have a story that somewhat holds up, with characters that arent total dumbasses (except the jedis in the 2nd) ewan mcgregor is better alone than anything in the new universe But i'd agree with you, the fact that they used a green screen is definitly why the prequels are worse than the new ones + Show Spoiler +I mean, ultimately film is a visual medium. When so much of a movie is okay for the time (now bad) CGI, it makes it tough for me to take a film seriously in 2019. Infinite money combined with Lucas' laziness "vision" to create something that aged very poorly. A New Hope's miniatures and matte paintings look like a movie more than 40 years later. The droids and clones...do not. And it certainly didn't help the actors' performances.
If a movie looks bad, it needs a great script or compelling performances. PT has neither of those. For every Ewan McGregor there's three Haydens and Samuels and Natalies. I'm also not sure I would agree the story of the prequels holds up at all (first movie is pointless, second movie is nonsense, third movie's opener makes very little sense without external context, Anakin is never actually a good dude onscreen), but I don't think that discussion would go anywhere. Yeah, the Anakin change was done very poorly. He massacres a whole Tusken village and in E3 NOBODY CARES. Like... seriously? This is the Republic? This is the Jedi order, peacekeepers and protectors? Even if we accept that Tatooine isn't in the Republic jurisdiction - nobody in the order cares? Also fear/hate brings you to the dark side, that's why we antagonize this youngling(E1) by refusing him so he can go towards the dark side? Jedi council, do you even have brains? Anyway, in this sense I have to agree, it was lazy-ish, but that comes from the point it had to be continuous with the old trilogy and Lucas isn't a great writer. Edit> Screw that. Nobody cared in E2 either!!!!! Peace. Keepers. Of. The. Galaxy. Tell that to the dead Tuskens.
Could anyone in the Republic really have known though? Seemed like Anakin only really confessed to Padme about it. Yoda felt that Anakin was going through some emo business, but didn't seem to know or probe beyond that. The village itself was out in the middle of nowhere on a planet in the periphery. It's not like they could even have picked up rumors when war was about to break out.
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If were talking about every single bad moments, lets talk on how the 8th movie destroyed space battles. Or how the second half of that movie was due to everyone being dumber than a rock.
There are 0 interesting characters in the new franchise.
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Finland955 Posts
On December 07 2019 05:21 Erasme wrote:
If were talking about every single bad moments, lets talk on how the 8th movie destroyed space battles. Or how the second half of that movie was due to everyone being dumber than a rock.
There are 0 interesting characters in the new franchise.
Or how the 1st movie destroyed super weapons.
Or how the 2nd movie destroyed big twists.
Or how the 3rd movie destroyed Force powers.
Or how the 4th movie destroyed how to become a Jedi.
Or how the 5th movie destroyed relationships.
Or how the 6th movie destroyed droids.
What a horrible franchise.
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Canada11382 Posts
None of those are true in any meaningful sense.
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On December 08 2019 14:35 Falling wrote:
None of those are true in any meaningful sense.
Not sure if you're including mine as well, so i'll clarify.
What's the point of building big ships when you can just strap on an hyperdrive on a piece of junk, and send it through the enemy fleet ?
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When the original creator of a successful//popular//great franchise "cashes out" very often the most hardcore fans have an extremely negative view of the new material made by the money machine that bought franchise.
The OT is clearly the vision and creation of one person. These last few movies were created by a committee.
Too many cooks spoil the broth.
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Finland955 Posts
On December 08 2019 14:35 Falling wrote:
None of those are true in any meaningful sense.
Exactly.
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Canada11382 Posts
I don't include yours Erasme. Guess I should have added a @hexhaven.
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On December 09 2019 04:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
When the original creator of a successful//popular//great franchise "cashes out" very often the most hardcore fans have an extremely negative view of the new material made by the money machine that bought franchise.
The OT is clearly the vision and creation of one person. These last few movies were created by a committee.
Too many cooks spoil the broth.
There would be nothing wrong if the committee was competent. As it was they've picked mediocre directors at best and chose someone who has 0 idea about the franchise to be the head of it (Kathleen Kennedy didn't even know there was any source material besides the OT/Prequels, and I'm not sure she even saw that).
The lack of any real plan or overarching vision (and a way to enforce it) also didn't help, which allowed Ruin Johnson to pretty much just ignore what Jar Jar Abrams set up, throw a monkey wrench into the cogs and waste budget on his nonsensical plot twists and stuff that could just as well be left out of the movie (the entire casino scene). Now Jar Jar is back and has to somehow tie up this mess.
Judging from what he said in the interviews it seems like he just wants to be done with it as soon as possible so he can move on to destroy the DCU over at WB. It's like he doesn't even give a fuck any more with sentences like "Ruin has shown me the way, I don't need to be scared any more as I can do whatever I want even though it will aggravate some people."
This movie is dumpster fire in the making.
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Why should a director give a fuck about a franchise where the company ordering the movies have no clue, just want a cash grab and don't have a vision of their own? He gets to cash out anyway. You could call him out on his integrity, but this blatant profit hunting just kind of leans to not caring, or am I wrong here?
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On December 09 2019 20:44 Uldridge wrote:
Why should a director give a fuck about a franchise where the company ordering the movies have no clue, just want a cash grab and don't have a vision of their own? He gets to cash out anyway. You could call him out on his integrity, but this blatant profit hunting just kind of leans to not caring, or am I wrong here?
Well, it really depends on how you look at it. If you have cash to spend (like Disney) you could either use it to hire a very competent director and screenwriters, then regardless of their interest in the SW universe you'd get a good movie anyway and have protected your newly acquired franchise, or you could just give the money to random dudes and let them do whatever, which is pretty much what happens.
I mean, it probably wouldn't be all that bad if you had very good screenwriters who'd have done the entire trilogy or at least the first part and have basic outlines for the other 2 and then handed it over to the directors while they polish/finish the script for the rest. They had Kasdan, but he hasn't done anything significant in the past 30 years, JJ and Arndt aren't really good screenwriters either. Then for the second (and very important) act you get someone who's done just 3 movies so far. Granted, 2 of them were relatively good but he's still just writing for himself and you have no idea how he can handle an existing project and if he can play well with others (obviously he can't).
It's super stupid of Disney in my opinion. If you want to protect your new investment the least you could do is hire competent people, regardless of how enthusiastic they are about the franchise. Take your sweet time to properly build it up and then go with it. Instead they just rushed out of the gate without any plan and doing whatever, thinking that'll satisfy the fans.
Unfortunately for Disney SW has a very big and very old fandom, of which quite a bit are hardcore fanatics and they won't let you slide with mediocre stuff (see outrage at the prequels, which weren't as bad as the new trilogy). If handled well, the new trilogy movies would break records left and right, each one of them topping Avengers. Instead you have movies that barely sure made some money but have angered a lot of fandom so your primary sources of revenue for the franchise (merch) has plummeted.
We'll have to wait and see what happens after the dust settles. Disney already know they've made a mistake and have backed off of some SW projects. Let's see how much this trilogy will hurt them in the long run and if they can correct the mistakes in the future.
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Canada11382 Posts
On December 09 2019 20:44 Uldridge wrote:
Why should a director give a fuck about a franchise where the company ordering the movies have no clue, just want a cash grab and don't have a vision of their own? He gets to cash out anyway. You could call him out on his integrity, but this blatant profit hunting just kind of leans to not caring, or am I wrong here?
Only if you are about short term gains and are okay burning your bridges. But there's a lot more money to be made if one makes excellent movies thereby building a reputation for oneself. At this point, I will see any film by Nolan, for instance. He has a very solid track record.
For Disney, why did they plan out trilogy, nevermind 10 films in advance? Why is only the third film in the continuing saga already being called "The End"? This should be the beginning of a multi-movie story, setting up plot lines five films in advance. But they're just waffing around and then closing it down after 5 films? (Now of course, I don't actually believe them. Never Say Die/ if you can't Sequel it, then Prequel it, and if neither, then Reboot.)
But the sky is the limit to how expansive the storytelling is- and instead we're stuck with a rehash of ANH and a Frankenstein rehash of Empire and Return, resurrect the Emperor one last time to kill him again and we're done? If they were after cash, they got it alright, but there's a lot more in that bank.
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And whydo you think theyd be thinking of long term?
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On December 10 2019 07:57 sharkie wrote:
And whydo you think theyd be thinking of long term?
Because if you want a lot of money, like marvel, you make a lot of movies in one universe that somewhat make sense
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On December 10 2019 19:16 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2019 07:57 sharkie wrote:
And whydo you think theyd be thinking of long term? Because if you want a lot of money, like marvel, you make a lot of movies in one universe that somewhat make sense
You forgot to add that you also want to expand your fandom and not divide and destroy it. In my opinion if the new SW trilogy would be actually good then it would bring new people into the fold while retaining all the old fans who are really driving this franchise as they're the ones buying all the merch. But I guess it's impossible for Disney to abandon their agenda pushing (you can do it, but don't be so obnoxious about it) as being prime motivator instead of good story.
All they had to do is give a proper send-off to the old cast and introduce 2-3 new characters to serve as a kernel for your new epic saga that you can expand upon later. What they did instead was ruin all the old characters and introduce us to some new ones that no one gives a damn about because of how bland and uninteresting they are.
They had all the things to make it work. With Finn I could totally dig storm trooper going AWOL, but they've decided to make him a comic-relief character. Poe being an awesome pilot and such also had potential, but then they made him just crack stupid jokes and be dull. Rey... Rey would be fine if she weren't a total Mary Sue. Like, give her some obstacle she can't tackle and maybe needs help from the others to overcome. Make the villain actually be a threat to her etc.
Really, if you think about it they had all the tools they needed, they just didn't know how to handle them... Take Kylo for example. I could totally dig sith apprentice throwing temper tantrums. I could totally dig this mind-link he had with Rey, which if handled correctly could be turned into a gripping emotional backdrop of a love-hate relationship between the two, but for that we'd need to actually care about Rey and her being able to express some emotions. I would be OK with him killing Solo, if only they focused some more on Solo in this first part, so the nostalgia could really sink in. They should also make him a good father and not a bad one.
Just imagine this alternate plot for the Force Awakens:
We start off with Han and Chewie roaming the galaxy, trying to find Kylo, who has disappeared from Luke's academy for some reason. Leia can't participate because she has governments to run while Luke has his other apprentices. On the way there they meet Rey who they save from the slavers or something. They also come across mysterious stranger who desperately needs transportation off the planet (meet Finn). They have adventures, stuff happens, they meet Kylo who kills Han and the others flee because he's way too scary and strong for them to handle.
Some very important distinctions here: we start off with old cast, who will slowly give way to the younglings. Han is a good and loving father and not some washout, making it much harder for Kylo to actually kill him, and by developing their relationship throughout the film (we can do that now since we follow Han, not Rey) we give the scene a lot more emotional impact and Han a proper sendoff.
From then on it's also much easier to transition into Leia and then Luke. After Han's death Chewie takes Rey to Leia, she senses the Force in her and sends her to Luke. Natural freaking progression. Then you have FO kill Leia at the end of the movie while Rey is training with Luke. Then at the beginning of the third movie you get Kylo with his knights attack Luke's academy, kill him and injure Rey (Hitchcock style, begin with the earthquake and then continue building suspense). Now the third movie is about her gathering allies (Finn, Poe), getting instruction from ghost Luke and finally overcoming Kylo in the end.
One of the ways it could've been done. No bullshit, real simple story, but also one that probably everyone would like to see more than what we got. It took me like 2 minutes to come up with it too as I was making it up as I was typing. I don't want to believe that Disney can't find people in Hollywood who do that kind for a living and can actually get you a cohesive, polished and interesting story for a movie trilogy in like a year's time. Now they're telling us that 4 years after the release of the first movie they're doing re-shoots for the third movie because they haven't decided on how it's going to end? That's some real crap right there...
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i think its dumb when the Star Wars actors/creative-team-members yap away about Trump.
Were George Lucas, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher yapping away about Reagan or Carter or the US hostages in Iran? What was Carrie Fisher's view on stag-flation?
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On December 11 2019 04:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:i think its dumb when the Star Wars actors/creative-team-members yap away about Trump. Were George Lucas, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher yapping away about Reagan or Carter or the US hostages in Iran? What was Carrie Fisher's view on stag-flation?
Mark Hamill? The Mark Hamill who made parody recordings of Donald Trump tweets using his Joker voice while Last Jedi was in production? That Mark Hamill?
Yeah if he had access to today's technology he'd probably have "yapped away" about a thing or two back in the day.
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On December 11 2019 04:52 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2019 04:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:i think its dumb when the Star Wars actors/creative-team-members yap away about Trump. Were George Lucas, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher yapping away about Reagan or Carter or the US hostages in Iran? What was Carrie Fisher's view on stag-flation? Mark Hamill? The Mark Hamill who made parody recordings of Donald Trump tweets using his Joker voice while Last Jedi was in production? That Mark Hamill? Yeah if he had access to today's technology he'd probably have "yapped away" about a thing or two back in the day.
Today's tech ain't that advanced. Lucas, Hamill, Ford, and Fisher got interviewed 87 bazillion times and did the entire late night talk show circuit several times each.
If they wanted to whine they could have. Johnny Carson and David Letterman had lots of guests that had all kinds of negative things to say about politicians. Usually it was part of their over all schtick.. but not always.
Who needs R2 D2? we've got that White and Orange Round thing now! Only $9 In Canadian money or $6 in US Funds.
Skip Starbucks and pick up a life size Star Wars side kick robot instead!
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/eBjFT1h.jpg)
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Maybe they weren't old/secure enough to say w/e they really thought at the time.
So "if they were silent at the time (even tho they shouldn't) they should be silent now" ?
Amazing logic.
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EPT
