EPTDragon Ball Super Discussion - Page 79
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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing Dragon Ball Super. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If a chapter or an episode has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has been released or a chapter/episode that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread without spoilers. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9025 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Now I've got some questions as I've seen most of the series but missed a few episodes and now that I know the outcome I don't really want to watch them. Is goku red (super saijan god) stronger than blue? I thought SSBlue originally was called "super saijan god super saijan" or some terrible name like that? How did goku and vegeta achieve that? I know they trained with Wiss for a while before facing Freeza, is that all? Also, why Goten and Trunks/future trunks arent considered? I know they don't even tell them about the tournament but I must have missed why they don't invite them? They are way stronger than all the humans on Team 7. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On June 27 2017 14:28 [Phantom] wrote: While watching the fight between 17 and Goku and what came after I had the impression Goku was way stronger and just wanted to test 17. The reason he doesn't go into SS3 is because that is dead and I'm pretty sure we'll never see that again as goku can just transform into blue and don't use all his strenght, which I believe is what happened. Now I've got some questions as I've seen most of the series but missed a few episodes and now that I know the outcome I don't really want to watch them. Is goku red (super saijan god) stronger than blue? I thought SSBlue originally was called "super saijan god super saijan" or some terrible name like that? How did goku and vegeta achieve that? I know they trained with Wiss for a while before facing Freeza, is that all? Also, why Goten and Trunks/future trunks arent considered? I know they don't even tell them about the tournament but I must have missed why they don't invite them? They are way stronger than all the humans on Team 7. SSB now is stronger than the Super Saiyan God Red. Goku had gotten that much stronger since. Well, Goku basically got it from that time while Vegeta trained with Whis. Goten and Trunks are still kids, immature. They would never be able to compete in such a high stakes tournament. Look at their little stunt coming in as Gotenks then defusing after pissing off Freeza lol. Future trunks doesn't matter, he went back home remember? They can't just call him to help them out here. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On June 27 2017 14:34 BigFan wrote: SSB now is stronger than the Super Saiyan God Red. Goku had gotten that much stronger since. Well, Goku basically got it from that time while Vegeta trained with Whis. Goten and Trunks are still kids, immature. They would never be able to compete in such a high stakes tournament. Look at their little stunt coming in as Gotenks then defusing after pissing off Freeza lol. Future trunks doesn't matter, he went back home remember? They can't just call him to help them out here. The red form iirc is the result of the ritual, goku taps into that new "god" ki/energy and transforms with that slimmer look and red hair. After that ritual they begin to train with whis, goku and vegeta both learn to tap into the god ki without the ritual and thats the blue form which is just simply stronger than the red form. However this is all from the anime. The manga version ill put in the spoiler below + Show Spoiler + In the manga the two forms had difference in power ups that it gives, while both forms increase power and speed they also favour one over the other, red being speed and blue being power. They often show that goku and vegeta master the transformation allowing them to go red form which doesnt consume as much energy due to the light body so they use that increase in speed to reach and dodge the opponent and then quickly switch into the blue form for an attack and switch out after the attack is finished so they maximise energy consumption while getting the best out of both forms. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9025 Posts
SSB is ki controlled SSG. In the manga, + Show Spoiler + Vegeta switches between it very rapidly to overpower Goku Black. Goku, in the manga, actually perfects SSB to where it doesn't drain him as quickly I'd have to go back to be sure. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15736 Posts
On June 27 2017 13:58 BigFan wrote: Good point shock regarding the parts. Maybe they got an initial boost as we saw but then the parts were the limit. Then again, freeza was stronger after he was re-put back together haha. I think I got a bit lost. You're saying Freeza is more talented than 17 but we have also been shown that androids have an inherent advantage due to the alteration therefore, even though 17 would still be below Freeza's level, it's not a stretch for him to reach a close level with a much longer training session? Yes. If Freeza can be accepted, 17 should be easy to accept because Freeza's talent is much higher. 10 years is 20x longer than 6 months. 17 advancing 5% as quickly as Freeza is believable. | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On June 27 2017 15:22 Mohdoo wrote: Yes. If Freeza can be accepted, 17 should be easy to accept because Freeza's talent is much higher. 10 years is 20x longer than 6 months. 17 advancing 5% as quickly as Freeza is believable. frieza is a biological alien that was able to enslave entire worlds, 17 is a human (aka limited potential) plus mechanical parts (also limited). As much as 17 can train to improve reaction, techniques and a bit of strength its hard to imagine that they can improve sooo much given that they are the design of dr.gero who believed a non-ssj goku was the pinnacle of strength and thus wanted to overcome that. Frieza is much more easier to accept than 17, who knows what training frieza did, regardless he had the pressure of space and different worlds to train on or w/e. Maybe he even did some gravity training on that ship-he mentioned he trained harder than ever before. While 17...even if he is able to train to an infinite potential what has he been training against? Surely not just poachers thats insignificant, the creatures??? doubt it, the only other option is mediating training which i think highly depends on the battles that you have fought already because how can you imagine a speed or strength reliably to train against when u havnt encountered it at all, hes only ever vsed the sayaisn in ssj and ssj2 and cell. With Cell being the strongest, so lets say he has practiced vs cell a million times and has surpassed cell...thats still no where close to where the goku, vegeta hell even gohan is atm. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9025 Posts
In about 5 years our time, we'll have the biggest tournament involving all of the current universes. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Another problem with your fanfiction is that it creates another tournament arc, how many tournament arcs do we really want. It's a pretty bland and uncreative way to make people fight. So yeah not a big fan  | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9025 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I doubt it will happen like that, but personally i would prefer somethign along those lines because there would actually be a big consequence | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On June 27 2017 22:52 LegalLord wrote: I don't see a necessity to always escalate upward in strength and scope. Especially scope - Freeza was a galactic adventure but Cell saga was a homegrown Earth adventure. I don't quite understand your point here. Dragonball was always about fighting stronger opponents. That's realistically also the only thing it can do with how fighting works in this world. In other fighting shonen you can be a lot more reasonable with your power scaling because warriors rather are technique based and not so much about pure strength. So i absolutely believe that we need stronger opponents every single time for it to work. Dragonball super increased the scope to a level which is kinda absurd already, we have multiple universes, gods, and the master of it all. All that stuff was completely unnecessary, but now we are here and you have to do somethign with it. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
DBS is, unlike DBZ, partially about nonlinear scaling in strength and about winning with more than just power. A downward scaling in scope is not necessarily bad as long as it leads somewhere meaningful. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On June 27 2017 23:11 LegalLord wrote: We have gods who won't be beat by the end of the series. We had an immortal serial killer who murdered all the gods. Hell, the very first "villain" of DBS is the strongest to date, stronger than all the ones that followed. DBS is, unlike DBZ, partially about nonlinear scaling in strength and about winning with more than just power. A downward scaling in scope is not necessarily bad as long as it leads somewhere meaningful. I mean i don't want anyone to be able to beat the gods, i hope it is there as a "max power" limit of some sorts. I want the characters to interact with other characters out of the other universes. I am simply stating how dragonball works as a story up to this point. But that's the problem, you cannot tell a story over years and years where it's clear that at the end of the day "power" is really the only thing that matters and then suddenly decide that you kinda wanna change that. It simply doesn't work, the story has to stay coherent. That's exactly the reason people complained about the fillers, nothing in there was developed naturally, we just have to accept that's the way the writers wanna go. That's bad writing. I am not saying that the concept itself is bad, it works wonderfully in other fighting shonen like HxH for example, but these stories worked like that since page one (more or less). | ||
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MyLovelyLurker
France756 Posts
On June 27 2017 23:11 LegalLord wrote: We have gods who won't be beat by the end of the series. We had an immortal serial killer who murdered all the gods. Hell, the very first "villain" of DBS is the strongest to date, stronger than all the ones that followed. DBS is, unlike DBZ, partially about nonlinear scaling in strength and about winning with more than just power. A downward scaling in scope is not necessarily bad as long as it leads somewhere meaningful. Fully agreed, and yet arguably Goku, Freeza and maybe Gohan are just about one power-up away from full on Godmode at this point. Therein lies the contradiction - the tournament's gonna make everyone stronger, so we gonna have a Saint Seiya problem soon. Expect many more episodes full of 'ninge... kami... nani ? tatakai', like against Zamasu. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15736 Posts
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