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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing Dragon Ball Super. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If a chapter or an episode has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has been released or a chapter/episode that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread without spoilers. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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MoneyHypeMike
Canada305 Posts
On April 16 2017 18:05 HolydaKing wrote: Indeed.. next episode is probably gonna be painful. Anyway I had to laugh when No. 17 was able to effordlessly match blue Goku. And he wasn't at maximum power! | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Just when we thought god ki power-ups were the shit, 17 comes around and shows us that the true path to power is the park ranger power-up. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6326 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
The power gap between then and now is enormous if not say 100 or 1000 fold. Sure, 17 could've trained a lot and maybe get to SSJ2 level. 17 doesn't have any transformations or other gimmicks that would've given him a power jump so seeing him matched with SSJB just made no sense. The only two major factors that 17 (and 18) have is undetectable energy and limitless stamina due to being androids. Neither helps against the SSJB power gap in any meaningful way. It also seems Goku's way of testing someone is to blast them with a SSJB Kamehameha and hope they don't get vaporized? Also, the aliens showing up at the end aiming for that one animal that was *just* introduced along with 17 is extremely convenient. Obviously they'll do something bad and 17 will be convinced to join the tournament. Meh. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
w/e i just want them to reach the tournament, at least we can hope these minor characters basically get shoved aside and we can forget about them as the sayians fight someone interesting. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 16 2017 22:19 Thezzy wrote: Pffft.... As far as I know, SSJB is something that goes somewhat near Beerus level of power. Beerus, who one-shotted SSJ3 Goku with a single tap on the shoulder without even trying. And 17 is from the era of regular SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan all the way at the end of the Cell saga. The power gap between then and now is enormous if not say 100 or 1000 fold. Sure, 17 could've trained a lot and maybe get to SSJ2 level. 17 doesn't have any transformations or other gimmicks that would've given him a power jump so seeing him matched with SSJB just made no sense. The only two major factors that 17 (and 18) have is undetectable energy and limitless stamina due to being androids. Neither helps against the SSJB power gap in any meaningful way. It also seems Goku's way of testing someone is to blast them with a SSJB Kamehameha and hope they don't get vaporized? Also, the aliens showing up at the end aiming for that one animal that was *just* introduced along with 17 is extremely convenient. Obviously they'll do something bad and 17 will be convinced to join the tournament. Meh. Agreed 100%. This is just madness at this point. Was DBZ a science that was totally consistent? No, but it was at least somewhat roughly so. This is just out of control. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10989 Posts
Its not like dbz was ever really consistent or even good written when compared to modern shounens "early" arks. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
The only somewhat stand out one is when picolo merges with kami and becomes stronger than vegeta when he just reached ssj. Which you could argue why didnt they just do that and beat frieza? Personally for me i think the answer is somewhere around that picolo's base strength at that time wasnt enough for the merge to be powerful enough and the lost of kami meant no earth dragon balls. Vegeta showed that he can over come the jump in power that picolo gets by training in ssj form. Having trunks warn them about the androids let the story say look knowing this they then spent the next few years training their butts off because they are going to die if they dont. So its reasonablr for everyone to get jump in power. | ||
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sertas
Sweden890 Posts
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Antipathy
United States222 Posts
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Xarles
459 Posts
On April 17 2017 08:25 Antipathy wrote: I just tell myself Goku is practicing holding back while in SSB, because he's not allowed to kill anyone during the tournament. But I know I'm just making excuses for the writers. There's also the part where they're so powerful that they can destroy stuff by hitting air, or stuff like the way Vegeta killed the Saibaman back then. If this was just somewhat consistent, someone as far down the power level ladder as Roshi, would die from one of the countless opponents missing a shot on each other. | ||
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Xarles
459 Posts
On April 16 2017 22:19 Thezzy wrote: Pffft.... As far as I know, SSJB is something that goes somewhat near Beerus level of power. Beerus, who one-shotted SSJ3 Goku with a single tap on the shoulder without even trying. And 17 is from the era of regular SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan all the way at the end of the Cell saga. The power gap between then and now is enormous if not say 100 or 1000 fold. Sure, 17 could've trained a lot and maybe get to SSJ2 level. 17 doesn't have any transformations or other gimmicks that would've given him a power jump so seeing him matched with SSJB just made no sense. The only two major factors that 17 (and 18) have is undetectable energy and limitless stamina due to being androids. Neither helps against the SSJB power gap in any meaningful way. It also seems Goku's way of testing someone is to blast them with a SSJB Kamehameha and hope they don't get vaporized? Also, the aliens showing up at the end aiming for that one animal that was *just* introduced along with 17 is extremely convenient. Obviously they'll do something bad and 17 will be convinced to join the tournament. Meh. Pretty sure that 17 didn't receive any special training from Whis either! I'd feel a lot better about this arc, if they had done a training arc prior to it, where they buffed up the rest of the cast. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
In the Cell saga, we see SSJ2 is much stronger than SSJ. In the Buu saga, we see SSJ3 is much, much stronger than SSJ2. Beerus knocks a heavily trained SSJ3 Goku out in 1 hit. Blue Goku trades well with Beerus but is ultimately not as strong. When you consider where Android 17 fits into this, him getting even remotely close to blue Goku is nothing short of madness. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
I don't subscribe to the "power multiplier" appraisal of transformations honestly. They have very much proven to have nonlinear power scaling. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 17 2017 10:08 LegalLord wrote: Easier point of reference: Trunks. A good example of about how strong a naturally talented individual with a strong training regimen can become in the allotted time. I don't subscribe to the "power multiplier" appraisal of transformations honestly. They have very much proven to have nonlinear power scaling. I dunno what there is to not subscribe to. There are numerous times that power is expressed as multiples or 10x or a percentage. Android 17 isn't some naturally talented individual. He was made into a android as an orphan or something. Also, Akira Toriyama gives indications in instances like this: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/ | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
There have been plenty of indications that the SSJ forms aren't very simple "power multipliers." Vegeta, Goku, Trunks, etc., have very different strengths at that transformation and it isn't because they are just so different in base form strength. And it should be noted that the characters in-universe who actually relied on power level measures were always the ones who consistently underestimated their opponents. Yea, Toriyama does make little commentary like that 6-10-15 comment which is now an infamous one in the game of power level assignment. But he also has spoken out against power levels in the past, and whether or not you think about them, it's important to note that he has pretty much flat out said that he himself does not. Plus there's the whole arc of Cell where they showed that it wasn't just about strength (a very direct correspondence to multipliers). Strength alone wasn't enough. Tl;dr: no, multipliers are stupid. | ||
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Xarles
459 Posts
With this power scaling, 17 should've been helping out if not taken down Buu by himself, especially when he can take advantage of his Infinite Energy. | ||
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