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This is a thread that is dedicated to discussing Dragon Ball Super. Do not read this thread if you are not currently caught up as there are spoilers in here. If a chapter or an episode has already been officially released, then it is not necessary to post using spoilers. If you have knowledge on a chapter that has been released or a chapter/episode that has not been officially released yet, do NOT post it in this thread without spoilers. Ignoring this public note will result in a mod action. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On April 22 2017 05:20 andrewlt wrote: The bolded part contradicts your earlier arguments about the importance of raw strength in Dragonball. No it doesn't. Power matters in that insufficient power makes you useless, but it's not just a clear "more powerful = you win" game of power levels. | ||
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MoneyHypeMike
Canada305 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Dragon Ball doesn't need a remake. It's fine as is. Also I think it had a smaller viewerbase. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
Before Cell died the first time, Gohan was clearly superior, power, technique etc... After he came back, had Gohan not been injured due to rescuing Vegeta, he likely would've been on par with Cell. In the final confrontation, even though they seemed even, Gohan was giving it all he had and Cell was pushing him back. Vegeta caused that little distraction, at which point with Goku's help, Gohan was able to push out some more power and in that instance, overwhelmed Cell. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On April 22 2017 06:06 LegalLord wrote: No it doesn't. Power matters in that insufficient power makes you useless, but it's not just a clear "more powerful = you win" game of power levels. Your argument is that other people in this thread overstate the importance of raw strength. But there, in that sentence, you admitted that there a minimum acceptable level of power that characters must have before strategy, tactics and all that jazz can come into play. Furthermore, you admitted that during the end of the Cell saga, only people at Vegeta's level or above are at that minimum threshold of power since Vegeta was barely not obsolete by power creep. Well, the Buu saga and the early episodes of Dragon Ball Super later, after even more power creep, why would the people who were behind Vegeta during the Cell saga not be even more obsolete? Non-Saiyans did not exactly get power ups in the interim. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On April 22 2017 09:28 andrewlt wrote: Your argument is that other people in this thread overstate the importance of raw strength. But there, in that sentence, you admitted that there a minimum acceptable level of power that characters must have before strategy, tactics and all that jazz can come into play. Furthermore, you admitted that during the end of the Cell saga, only people at Vegeta's level or above are at that minimum threshold of power since Vegeta was barely not obsolete by power creep. Well, the Buu saga and the early episodes of Dragon Ball Super later, after even more power creep, why would the people who were behind Vegeta during the Cell saga not be even more obsolete? Non-Saiyans did not exactly get power ups in the interim. non-sayians, if anything got weaker. They were training hardcore mode during frieza and cell saga. Come buu aside from vegeta and goku no one is doing any training (until the tourny, and then only for a brief moment) they all are just smashed by buu later on. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
@andrew: Yes, power is important and more power makes you stronger. Duh. My argument was with the use of the "multipliers" and "power level" depictions as a very definitive measure of who beats whom - which was shown quite often to be useful but insufficient - which is very closely tied to the concept of raw strength. Like transforming SSJX doesn't simply make you Y times stronger; there's more to it than that. And stronger characters lose to weaker ones based on strategy or scorched earth tactics (e.g. blow everything up) plenty often within Z/S. Power matters but it's clearly not the end-all be-all unless you just want to pretend everything can be boiled down to one number like all the characters in-universe who assumed power levels are a perfect indicator of everything. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6257 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 23 2017 20:17 RvB wrote: These episodes are boring. Hopefully we get the tournament soon. you mean, you didn't like + Show Spoiler + Beerus waking up and screaming from his nightmare about Goku dying or seeing Goku/17 gang up on what are essentially, small fry?  | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
DBS will need a Kai-esque cleanup in the future. All the pieces are there but DBS doesn't quite "work" overall yet. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
Post-gravity training Goku was able to strike Rekoom in the stomach numerous times without even being seen by Vegeta. Let's be incredibly conservative here by saying Goku is only twice as fast as he was after gravity training. This dumbass poaching dip shit was never a risk. He was never able to explode too early or something. Android 17 should have been able to snatch that remote, incinerate it, then snap the poacher's neck in less than half a second. I'm so tired of all these ridiculous situations that make no sense. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On April 24 2017 05:14 LegalLord wrote: What pissed me off the most about this two-episode part was how they trolled us with A17's wife and kids. They know we want to know what they look like and teased us but gave us nothing. What the fuck? I guess I'm alone in giving zero shits about his family. His side story has been so unfathomably bad that I just don't care. I almost want him to just die in the beginning of the tournament as punishment for his terrible sub-arc. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 24 2017 05:34 Mohdoo wrote: I guess I'm alone in giving zero shits about his family. His side story has been so unfathomably bad that I just don't care. I almost want him to just die in the beginning of the tournament as punishment for his terrible sub-arc. haha well, I do care too. I was hoping we'll see pics or something but like you guys, I'm a bit disillusioned by how they are playing out this 17 mini-arc. The whole he's on par with SSB is complete bullshit and the same with that remote as mentioned previously... | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On April 24 2017 05:38 LegalLord wrote: Doesn't matter if he dies though, cuz magic orbs of magic. Fine. Zeno says "fuck this dude's garb haircut" and then erases him. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On April 24 2017 05:55 Mohdoo wrote: Fine. Zeno says "fuck this dude's garb haircut" and then erases him. Zeno has no sense of scale and his only power is "destroy EVERYTHING" as a result. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On April 24 2017 06:02 LegalLord wrote: Also, I wanted to give a short rant since magic balls. I know a fair few people said they liked the "abuse of dragonballs" subplot of GT that was its final season. Well in and of itself it isn't too bad, but in the context it was just really fucking bad. There was a definite attempt in GT to minimize use of the dragonballs - but we as savvy long-term DB people don't buy any of it because we know that if anyone dies they can just return using the magical plot device. The attempt to not use it looked really fucking artificial in the actual context of how GT started and finished. Zeno has no sense of scale and his only power is "destroy EVERYTHING" as a result. I take the perspective of "Don't care, because it made the show better for it". Similar to what DBS is now struggling with, sometimes you gotta just slit the Achilles tendon of some dynamic. The idea of "Dragon balls were well intended, and a crucial part of the show, but it went overboard and now the final struggle for survival is against the repercussions of misusing the dragon balls" was a very, very satisfying ending to the show. I was totally on board. I agree that the details were eh, but being able to remove the dragon balls from common use going forward was a net positive. Heh, let me put it this way. Choose one: A bad guy finally wishes for immortality, or dragon balls become a bad guy? Obvious answer. Zeno...sigh. DBS...sigh. | ||
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