On November 21 2015 07:24 andrewlt wrote: There is a lot of exaggeration going on. I didn't think the originals were that good or the prequels that bad. The prequels did have their problems but some were in the originals as well.
I don't think personal opinions can be exaggerated. People can like things to different degrees.
On November 21 2015 07:24 andrewlt wrote: There is a lot of exaggeration going on. I didn't think the originals were that good or the prequels that bad. The prequels did have their problems but some were in the originals as well.
I don't think personal opinions can be exaggerated. People can like things to different degrees.
This wine is literally the best thing I've ever tasted. I feel like I'm in heaven. You could overdose my brain to death on oxytocin and it wouldn't feel as good as having one drop of this sublime ambrosia on my tongue.
On November 21 2015 07:24 andrewlt wrote: There is a lot of exaggeration going on. I didn't think the originals were that good or the prequels that bad. The prequels did have their problems but some were in the originals as well.
I don't think personal opinions can be exaggerated. People can like things to different degrees.
This wine is literally the best thing I've ever tasted. I feel like I'm in heaven. You could overdose my brain to death on oxytocin and it wouldn't feel as good as having one drop of this sublime ambrosia on my tongue.
I could claim that is hyperbolic, but I have zero evidence to dispute your personal experience.
Of course personal opinions can be exaggerated. The problem is whether you can ever know it to be true for them or not. But in the context of Star Wars, I think it is very much a case of different people simply have different personal opinions rather than exaggerations.
On November 21 2015 07:24 andrewlt wrote: There is a lot of exaggeration going on. I didn't think the originals were that good or the prequels that bad. The prequels did have their problems but some were in the originals as well.
I don't think personal opinions can be exaggerated. People can like things to different degrees.
Euh? This isn't about personal opinions, people actually STATE that the films are horrible, the worst films ever and other nonsense. There is a difference between personal opinion and objectivity. Nobody wants to say that people have to like the movies or something similar. I bet some people actually think the new movies are great, good for them but that would be just as 'wrong' as the other extreme.
I love the theory. And yes, considering the fact that Jar Jar does all this weird shit and is 100% scripted, it might have been GL's original plan. I can totally see him chickening out once everyone of the old guard, who are supposed to like this plot twist, backlash like crazy.
I don't think Disney is going to use that. I mean if I'm not totally wrong, the story is going to be the one of the books. And I highly doubt that the original new sith master is JJ in the books.
And why should Disney give a f*ck about redeeming the old movies?
Also the shitstorm of all the people who didnt read the theory would be immense. Like a Jupiter's red spot level shitstorm.
On November 21 2015 10:18 Blackfeather wrote: I love the theory. And yes, considering the fact that Jar Jar does all this weird shit and is 100% scripted, it might have been GL's original plan. I can totally see him chickening out once everyone of the old guard, who are supposed to like this plot twist, backlash like crazy.
I don't think Disney is going to use that. I mean if I'm not totally wrong, the story is going to be the one of the books. And I highly doubt that the original new sith master is JJ in the books.
And why should Disney give a f*ck about redeeming the old movies?
Also the shitstorm of all the people who didnt read the theory would be immense. Like a Jupiter's red spot level shitstorm.
While I think the probability that Jar Jar is a Sith Lord approaches 0, this story is not based on the books. I don't think they've even reused a single character name from the Expanded Universe. The only thing that I can see that seems possibly similar + Show Spoiler +
is if Kylo Ren and what's-her-name main character are Han/Leia's kids, but I'm skeptical of that.
in the books, and I feel like by ~ 25 years after Yavin the New Republic and Empire are almost at uneasy-ceasefire levels because of the whole + Show Spoiler +
aliens from outside the galaxy that screw up the force obliterating everything in their path
. Someone with better knowledge of the EU would be able to verify.
I couldn't believe what I was feeling after reading this!
In general, I think a healthy dose of Occam's Razor applied to movies would be a good thing.
Not only that, but I've seen these sorts of elaborate theories before in other series, but they really only develop in the context of a lot negative criticism. If Jar Jar was accepted with criticism, the Darth Jar Jar seems such a bizarre interpretation. When elaborate theories are put up in defense of significant criticism, you can pretty much guarantee we're dealing with fan fiction.
I couldn't believe what I was feeling after reading this!
In general, I think a healthy dose of Occam's Razor applied to movies would be a good thing.
Not only that, but I've seen these sorts of elaborate theories before in other series, but they really only develop in the context of a lot negative criticism. If Jar Jar was accepted with criticism, the Darth Jar Jar seems such a bizarre interpretation. When elaborate theories are put up in defense of significant criticism, you can pretty much guarantee we're dealing with fan fiction.
Nah that is not true. I remember elaborate theories in breaking bad and GoT. Also mr. robot was figured out pretty much on day one but one can argue that was not an elaborate theory. The hard part about finding more examples is not the theories but finding content that is not heavily negatively criticized by some. 'Defensive fanfic' seems to get more traction though.
I couldn't believe what I was feeling after reading this!
In general, I think a healthy dose of Occam's Razor applied to movies would be a good thing.
Not only that, but I've seen these sorts of elaborate theories before in other series, but they really only develop in the context of a lot negative criticism. If Jar Jar was accepted with criticism, the Darth Jar Jar seems such a bizarre interpretation. When elaborate theories are put up in defense of significant criticism, you can pretty much guarantee we're dealing with fan fiction.
Nah that is not true. I remember elaborate theories in breaking bad and GoT. Also mr. robot was figured out pretty much on day one but one can argue that was not an elaborate theory. The hard part about finding more examples is not the theories but finding content that is not heavily negatively criticized by some. 'Defensive fanfic' seems to get more traction though.
I think you will find there is a categorical difference between elaborate theories for unfinished series, which is more 'omg, what is going to happen?' vs finished series, which is more 'omg, this is how it is secretly good if you think about it in a really, really bizarre way.' Of course an unsatisfying ending to an unfinished series can spawn the latter sort of theories, but you will find significant criticism separating the two very different forms of elaborate theories... the latter is definitely, as you said a defensive sort of fanfic.
I couldn't believe what I was feeling after reading this!
The prequels could have been so amazing
Darth Jar Jar could have been the greatest plot twist in cinema history.
Darth Jar Jar would have brewed the biggest shitstorm ever. The community hated him so much that making them understand that it was all a front without them feeling betrayed was next to impossible.
I could totally understand GL's decision if there was any and prefer to delude myself thinking that the story of the first was actually a lot better than I thought. Because I'm actually a star wars nerd who likes episode 1, despite some obvious flaws like the fact that the character to identify with is 10 years old, who is a child without father, enslaved, superhuman and appears like half time in the move.
It also gives me a legitimate excuse why episode 2 was so terrible and boring and why episode 3 at times was really clunky.
I couldn't believe what I was feeling after reading this!
In general, I think a healthy dose of Occam's Razor applied to movies would be a good thing.
Not only that, but I've seen these sorts of elaborate theories before in other series, but they really only develop in the context of a lot negative criticism. If Jar Jar was accepted with criticism, the Darth Jar Jar seems such a bizarre interpretation. When elaborate theories are put up in defense of significant criticism, you can pretty much guarantee we're dealing with fan fiction.
Nah that is not true. I remember elaborate theories in breaking bad and GoT. Also mr. robot was figured out pretty much on day one but one can argue that was not an elaborate theory. The hard part about finding more examples is not the theories but finding content that is not heavily negatively criticized by some. 'Defensive fanfic' seems to get more traction though.
I think you will find there is a categorical difference between elaborate theories for unfinished series, which is more 'omg, what is going to happen?' vs finished series, which is more 'omg, this is how it is secretly good if you think about it in a really, really bizarre way.' Of course an unsatisfying ending to an unfinished series can spawn the latter sort of theories, but you will find significant criticism separating the two very different forms of elaborate theories... the latter is definitely, as you said a defensive sort of fanfic.
Not sure, the theory is pretty good. I could doubt the entire mind control tricks, but the fighting stances? On an entirely animated cgi character? The immense agility at times but the obvious goofyness at other times? I mean he does this weird superhuman jump, dodges a laser and catches the droid that is sneeking up behind him in the midst of a battlefield, but steps into poo and stuns his tongue with something he's been warned about a few moments earlier? The lack of common sense that is so extreme that whenever someone tells him not to do something, he guaranteed does it 5 seconds later and escapes disaster by a hairsbreadth each time?
Also let's be honest, fanfic would have been something to write after the movie came out and got a lot of hate. Not 16 years later when everyone has calmed down, has mostly forgotten their disappointment and is semi-hyped for the sequel of the old series. Say "Jar Jar" to a fan of the old series and you can be sure that his blood pressure is hitting unhealthy values within seconds.
lol the Jar Jar talk makes me remember the good old times
Friend of mine is a movie director and flew to the US for the premiere of Episode I. It took years until he was able to laugh about it with us, the experience was quite traumatic for some time.
On November 22 2015 08:00 AngryMag wrote: lol the Jar Jar talk makes me remember the good old times
Friend of mine is a movie director and flew to the US for the premiere of Episode I. It took years until he was able to laugh about it with us, the experience was quite traumatic for some time.
Yeah that's exactly what I mean by gigantic shitstorm. A lot of the people adored the old star wars movies a littlebit too much and the hype was pretty crazy. So a lot of people felt like Jar Jar was just a disgrace to their holy grail, like a caricature . So I can totally see GL dropping the idea that the character that hurt feelings the most should play a major part in the story.
Not to say that the old ones weren't way better in terms of story-writing, acting and especially creating characters the viewers can identify with, but Jar Jar is essentially C3P0 for people ~2 years younger. Blaming him for everything that's wrong with the newer movies is pretty ridiculous.
I didn't really hate Jar Jar at all; he wasn't a character who did all that much wrong and he is quotable in a good way. Little Anakin is far more mediocre (he should ideally have been 15+ from the start, have notable mental instabilities, and have real pilot skills rather than just podracing), and the storytelling of Ep 1 is the real killer. Sheev's story in the background is pretty solid:
Finally, I think having Darth Maul reappear in one of the later episodes would have been a good idea. Dooku was better than Maul, but it's still a solid character wasted.
On November 22 2015 08:55 LegalLord wrote: I didn't really hate Jar Jar at all; he wasn't a character who did all that much wrong and he is quotable in a good way. Little Anakin is far more mediocre (he should ideally have been 15+ from the start, have notable mental instabilities, and have real pilot skills rather than just podracing), and the storytelling of Ep 1 is the real killer. Sheev's story in the background is pretty solid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEOn_1wQJ5k
Finally, I think having Darth Maul reappear in one of the later episodes would have been a good idea. Dooku was better than Maul, but it's still a solid character wasted.
Yeah the story really would have needed an outsider, so that someone asks questions like "Why are the trade federation attacking? Who are they? Why is there no reaction when a queen enters the senate and tells them, with eye-witnesses, that her planet was attacked? And in episode 2: Why are neither Jedi nor senators allowed to marry? Obi-Wan is too old and knowledgeable and Anakin is too young (and seems to know a lot anyways) and later on too integrated into society. Overall I still like some parts of episodes 1-3 more than 4-6, mainly the depicting of the universe. The senate and Palpatine's rise to power sound believable, there are lots and lots of aliens being depicted, we get to see more planets that are habitable etc. The universe in episode 4-6 feels very dead, the empire very stiff. It feels like GL put lots of time into the background, but not a lot of time into thinking about how a person who doesn't have his knowledge understands the story.
I thought Darth Maul was fine, he wasnt very interesting, but he was kinda cool. I'm not sure if I would have liked him to just win vs Quai Gon and disappear, but after he was cut in half I thought him dead. So I'm happy that he didnt reappear.
Count Dooku feels weird as a pupil. He has a more or less even fight vs Joda and seems to have a large amount of authority. He's closer to a master than a pupil. Yet he seems to see no hope to fight against Palpatine. I disliked Greevious a lot more tbh, I would have kept Dooku and used the beheading scene later on, closer to Anakin's fall. Greevious himself came out of nowhere and I totally didnt get why the movie even needs him.
EPT
