EPTStar Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 47
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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Wardword
7 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 07 2013 12:14 Whitewing wrote: Dear god yes, on all accounts. Unfortunately, I don't think Traitor, as awesome as it is, really fits as a stand alone movie. You really need most of the rest of the NJO stuff for it to fit and make sense, and you really need a good sense of Jacen Solo's character going into it to really understand it. You can probably do the Yuuzhan Vong invasion (all 19 books of it) in about 6-7 movies if you cut out a ton of nonessential stuff. Oh yeah for sure. You could take out some of the books and make it like 6 movies. Would be epic as hell. To bad that will never happen :/. | ||
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TheFlock
United States389 Posts
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KwarK
United States43505 Posts
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Sanctimonius
United Kingdom861 Posts
Thrawn and Daala would be good ones to do, show that the Empire wasn't wiped out of existence with the death of the Emperor. There's still a lot of troops and ships out there that hate the Rebellion. And anything on Exar Kun or the KOTOR period would be fantastic, but I'm not expecting it. Way too early for the period they are concentrating on. I've been wanting to see some real development of the morality of the light and dark sides of the force. KOTOR did a decent job of introducing the themes but never really explored them. I can't see that it's so clear cut - any recs from people? edit: apparently it wasn't dark empire. Whatever one had them using droids to kill populations of planets, can't remember the title. | ||
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FromShouri
United States862 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:17 KwarK wrote: Just out of curiousity, how do the descendents of Luke and Leia fit in whatever it is that follows Return of the Jedi? I mean if you believe in the force then Anakin is basically Jesus, right? So you've got a presumably expanding family of messiahs. That's bound to cause some issues. Likewise if you want to found a stable democracy and you find out that basically every war ever has been fought as a proxy for these religious guys you'd not be sold on the whole principle. Nah the prophecy was never for anakin but rather luke, Luke is basically Jesus as he broke the sith upper hand and brought balance to the force through gaining power through his emotions but not at the cost of his principles like the sith or...something like that. | ||
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Brosy
United States254 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:17 KwarK wrote: Just out of curiousity, how do the descendents of Luke and Leia fit in whatever it is that follows Return of the Jedi? I mean if you believe in the force then Anakin is basically Jesus, right? So you've got a presumably expanding family of messiahs. That's bound to cause some issues. Likewise if you want to found a stable democracy and you find out that basically every war ever has been fought as a proxy for these religious guys you'd not be sold on the whole principle. Kind of reminds me of Dune. Where Paul is the Messiah and his son begins a slow transformation into a worm to try and stabilize space, because the original messiah didn't want to take the path. And eventually a desendant of Leto kills him and there's always small revolutions caused by an Atreides every time. | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:28 FromShouri wrote: Nah the prophecy was never for anakin but rather luke, Luke is basically Jesus as he broke the sith upper hand and brought balance to the force through gaining power through his emotions but not at the cost of his principles like the sith or...something like that. Actually, the prohpecy was definitely for Anakin. He's the one that killed the emperor, therefore bringing balance to the force. It's like saying Frodo was the real hero of LOTR. We all know it was Sam, because without him, Frodo would have failed. Without Anakin Skywalker stopping the Emperor from killing Luke, the Sith would have ruled the galaxy for who knows how long. | ||
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GARO
United States2255 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:49 hoby2000 wrote: Actually, the prohpecy was definitely for Anakin. He's the one that killed the emperor, therefore bringing balance to the force. It's like saying Frodo was the real hero of LOTR. We all know it was Sam, because without him, Frodo would have failed. Without Anakin Skywalker stopping the Emperor from killing Luke, the Sith would have ruled the galaxy for who knows how long. Then you remember that the Emperor didn't really die because he had a million clone bodies until DE, and that it wasn't a Skywalker who actually finished him off. "Expanded Universe" | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:19 Sanctimonius wrote: Are the NJO series any good? I think the last one I read was Dark Empire, whatever one had the strange stormtroopers. It was meh so I didn't continue, but I've heard good things about the NJO stuff. Thrawn and Daala would be good ones to do, show that the Empire wasn't wiped out of existence with the death of the Emperor. There's still a lot of troops and ships out there that hate the Rebellion. And anything on Exar Kun or the KOTOR period would be fantastic, but I'm not expecting it. Way too early for the period they are concentrating on. I've been wanting to see some real development of the morality of the light and dark sides of the force. KOTOR did a decent job of introducing the themes but never really explored them. I can't see that it's so clear cut - any recs from people? edit: apparently it wasn't dark empire. Whatever one had them using droids to kill populations of planets, can't remember the title. Well Thrawn continued fighting fo ra while i think, and there was basically Imperial warlords instead of just the empire or something. Dark Troopers was the Arc Hammer or whatever(that ship that made them i think) maybe im thinking completely wrong tho lol. | ||
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HornyHerring
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:19 Sanctimonius wrote: Are the NJO series any good? I think the last one I read was Dark Empire, whatever one had the strange stormtroopers. It was meh so I didn't continue, but I've heard good things about the NJO stuff. Thrawn and Daala would be good ones to do, show that the Empire wasn't wiped out of existence with the death of the Emperor. There's still a lot of troops and ships out there that hate the Rebellion. And anything on Exar Kun or the KOTOR period would be fantastic, but I'm not expecting it. Way too early for the period they are concentrating on. I've been wanting to see some real development of the morality of the light and dark sides of the force. KOTOR did a decent job of introducing the themes but never really explored them. I can't see that it's so clear cut - any recs from people? edit: apparently it wasn't dark empire. Whatever one had them using droids to kill populations of planets, can't remember the title. NJO is pretty good, imo the best aspect of it is that it takes SW away from the classic, done to death Jedi v. Sith business. There is a new enemy coming from a different galaxy, with impressive biotechnology and a ruthless culture based on pain. Jacen Solo is in the spotlight, he holds a big place in the entire conflict from beginning to end. It also spans 19 books, so there is a lot to read and that makes it enjoyable as it will take a long while to get through all of it. In terms of other characters, I really like Nom Anor. He's quite different from his people and that makes him a really interesting character. And also, Traitor is one fucking good book, as I've said it before. It's worth to read the whole series just to understand and enjoy that book. If you are interested about the morality of light/dark sides of the Force, then Traitor is the book you're looking for, and KOTOR 2 is the game you should play. On February 08 2013 05:55 GARO wrote: Then you remember that the Emperor didn't really die because he had a million clone bodies until DE, and that it wasn't a Skywalker who actually finished him off. "Expanded Universe" I like EU but if there is one piece I just ignore it's DE. It just destroys the whole story of RotJ, Luke going to Dark Side (WTF? I can take this but the reason is getting close to Emperor to finish him off...by disregarding the risk of potentially becoming something even worse than Palpatine), Palpatine with million clones, it's all over ridiculous and stupid. Don't regard all EU in this light though. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On February 08 2013 06:36 Bleak wrote: I like EU but if there is one piece I just ignore it's DE. It just destroys the whole story of RotJ, Luke going to Dark Side (WTF? I can take this but the reason is getting close to Emperor to finish him off...by disregarding the risk of potentially becoming something even worse than Palpatine), Palpatine with million clones, it's all over ridiculous and stupid. Don't regard all EU in this light though. I completely agree. DE is probably one of the most ridiculous arcs - and most disrespectful of the original trilogy - I've read in the EU. The two elements you mention (the Emperor coming back through clones and Luke going over to the Dark Side even though he precisely refused to do so in RotJ) are beyond stupid. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On February 08 2013 06:51 kwizach wrote: I completely agree. DE is probably one of the most ridiculous arcs - and most disrespectful of the original trilogy - I've read in the EU. The two elements you mention (the Emperor coming back through clones and Luke going over to the Dark Side even though he precisely refused to do so in RotJ) are beyond stupid. Just hearing about the plot to this arc was what stopped me from reading more EU books. Maybe it was an overreaction, but reading this, sounds like it wasn't =p. I wasn't a big fan of the X-Wing series either though, too Marty Stu for my taste. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:17 KwarK wrote: Just out of curiousity, how do the descendents of Luke and Leia fit in whatever it is that follows Return of the Jedi? I mean if you believe in the force then Anakin is basically Jesus, right? So you've got a presumably expanding family of messiahs. That's bound to cause some issues. Likewise if you want to found a stable democracy and you find out that basically every war ever has been fought as a proxy for these religious guys you'd not be sold on the whole principle. Warning: Spoilers ahead. + Show Spoiler + Luke starts up a New Jedi Order and goes on an epic quest for decades to find force sensitives and train them. His new order is changed dramatically from the old one, as he believes that abandoning love and attachment entirely is wrong, so his jedi are allowed to love. Luke's son and Leia and Han's Children become some extremely important characters. Lots of threats emerge, ranging from rebellions to the Imperial Remnant repeatedly attempting to reclaim control of the galaxy. The stories in the rest of the saga are vastly more interesting than the stories in the movies as well, and the characters tend to be more interesting. Jacen Solo is an incredibly introspective jedi who questions everything. Anakin Solo (named after his grandfather) is the pinnacle of what a jedi should be to most of them. There's a ton there that gets super interesting. I don't really want to spoil anything more than this. The character development in many of them is very well done, and the story goes to some extremely interesting places. Jaina Solo probably winds up being my favorite Star Wars character of all of them as of the most recent book series. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:55 GARO wrote: Then you remember that the Emperor didn't really die because he had a million clone bodies until DE, and that it wasn't a Skywalker who actually finished him off. "Expanded Universe" I mean as far as the six movies by themselves go, yeah Anakin was the real hero. He purged the Jedi, who were sticking to the old ways, too conservative for their own good and not looking to the future, and then purged the Sith, namely the Emperor and himself. So now when Luke goes to found the new Jedi Order he's able to start off with a blank slate, given the force ability of his father and the unorthodox (especially in episodes I and III) thinking/teaching of Obi-Wan. | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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Merany
France890 Posts
On February 08 2013 05:49 hoby2000 wrote: Actually, the prohpecy was definitely for Anakin. He's the one that killed the emperor, therefore bringing balance to the force. It's like saying Frodo was the real hero of LOTR. We all know it was Sam, because without him, Frodo would have failed. Without Anakin Skywalker stopping the Emperor from killing Luke, the Sith would have ruled the galaxy for who knows how long. I've always thought as the prophecy just being highly misinterpreted by the jedi (Yoda says something about iirc). In this case, balance would not mean "good guys win" but "there are as many bad guys as there are goood guys at the end of the day". Which applies pretty well to Anakin because by slaying almost all jedi, he reset the counters to 2 on each side: Vador + emperor vs Yoda + obiwan (+Luke? which kinda fuck up my theory...) | ||
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sacade
166 Posts
He brings balance | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
I think bringing Balance in this sense meant breaking the Sith dominance over the Force by defeating the greatest Sith Lord ever lived. Palpatine was the only Sith Lord belonging to Darth Bane's Sith Order that succeeded the Master Plan by orchestrating the Jedi Purge and establishing Sith dominance and rule over the galaxy. Not even the Grand Master of the Order managed to defeat him. Luke could not defeat him either, don't tell me about him bringing out the good in Vader and then defeating Palpatine. Luke did nothing, Vader did all the work because he actually hated Palpatine on the inside for what he did to him, and also because he loved his son. There was actually good in him. In the end, what Vader did doesn't even matter, because Darth Sidious effectively defeated himself by not seeking out and training a suitable and powerful apprentice so that one day he can hand over the reins. Vader was a shadow of Anakin Skywalker, because Force comes through life, and Vader was pretty much all mechanical. This meant he would never reach his true potential. I would say that if Obi-Wan did not win the duel on Mustafar in such a commanding fashion, the Luke would have even harder time facing his father. Sidious should have replaced Vader with a more suitable apprentice. He had Luke in his mind, but he should have realized that this was too risky since he underestimated the Vader's hatred towards him and also his affection towards his son. He might have thought that this is a very low risk, but it is still something a Sith Lord of Sidious' caliber should not have ignored. Sidious thought he was untouchable and that caused his fall. He fucked up at the worst possible moment, his death ended the millenia long Order that Darth Bane created. | ||
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