EPTStar Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 48
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 08 2013 09:03 Bleak wrote: I think bringing balance meant breaking the dominance of Dark Side influence on the Force that has been gathering ever since Palpatine rose to power and the troubles with Naboo began. If you remember, Yoda and the Jedi Council was having trouble looking into the future through the Force, because Palpatine's power and his influence was so immense, his grasp and control over the Force was hampering the Jedi's ability to use the Force. He was so powerful that he did all this while he was right in front of the Jedi Order, day in and day out. By making sure that the next Master is powerful than the last one, Bane's Order would one day reach the most powerful Sith Lord that would end the Jedi Order. I think bringing Balance in this sense meant breaking the Sith dominance over the Force by defeating the greatest Sith Lord ever lived. Palpatine was the only Sith Lord belonging to Darth Bane's Sith Order that succeeded the Master Plan by orchestrating the Jedi Purge and establishing Sith dominance and rule over the galaxy. Not even the Grand Master of the Order managed to defeat him. Luke could not defeat him either, don't tell me about him bringing out the good in Vader and then defeating Palpatine. Luke did nothing, Vader did all the work because he actually hated Palpatine on the inside for what he did to him, and also because he loved his son. There was actually good in him. In the end, what Vader did doesn't even matter, because Darth Sidious effectively defeated himself by not seeking out and training a suitable and powerful apprentice so that one day he can hand over the reins. Vader was a shadow of Anakin Skywalker, because Force comes through life, and Vader was pretty much all mechanical. This meant he would never reach his true potential. I would say that if Obi-Wan did not win the duel on Mustafar in such a commanding fashion, the Luke would have even harder time facing his father. Sidious should have replaced Vader with a more suitable apprentice. He had Luke in his mind, but he should have realized that this was too risky since he underestimated the Vader's hatred towards him and also his affection towards his son. He might have thought that this is a very low risk, but it is still something a Sith Lord of Sidious' caliber should not have ignored. Sidious thought he was untouchable and that caused his fall. He fucked up at the worst possible moment, his death ended the millenia long Order that Darth Bane created. Except the Sith didn't end with Sidious. Putting the One Sith and the Lost Tribe aside, there's still Lumiya skulking around, and all those other wannabe Vaders like Hethrir (ugh that book sucked but w/e). Unless you meant that Rule of 2 ended with Sidious and Vader, in which case you would be mostly correct. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On February 08 2013 09:10 Whitewing wrote: Except the Sith didn't end with Sidious. Putting the One Sith and the Lost Tribe aside, there's still Lumiya skulking around, and all those other wannabe Vaders like Hethrir (ugh that book sucked but w/e). Unless you meant that Rule of 2 ended with Sidious and Vader, in which case you would be mostly correct. I know about Lumiya's Sith, One Sith and the Lost Tribe, however to me (and also from Bane's point of view) they are all doomed to fail. Bane's plan (which was actually inspired by / taken from Revan's Holocron), the Rule of Two has some very simple framework: 1) It is inevitable for Masters to be defeated by their Apprentices.. Jedi have always cooperated together in large groups. Sith never managed to do this, as quest for greater power is inherent to Sith philosophy, which would mean eventually the Sith would fight each other to gain dominance. This would weaken the Sith, and since Jedi always stick together, Sith would be defeated. 2) Becoming as large and numerous as Jedi paints a large target that screams "Come fight us!" By staying small, only Master and Apprentice, and working in shadows, Sith can avoid Jedi until the Master Plan is realized. 3) By making sure the Apprentice has to defeat the Master and then earn the title of Master, the Bane's Order ensures Masters that don't deserve the title, or Apprentices that are unworthy will be eliminated. In this case, all these other Sith are doomed to fail in defeating the Jedi unless Jedi themselves fuck up. Sidious waited long enough for Vader to challenge him in combat, however this never happened. Sidious should have killed Vader for being unworthy then sought out a useful apprentice. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On February 08 2013 09:19 Bleak wrote: I know about Lumiya's Sith, One Sith and the Lost Tribe, however to me (and also from Bane's point of view) they are all doomed to fail. Bane's plan (which was actually inspired by / taken from Revan's Holocron), the Rule of Two has some very simple framework: 1) It is inevitable for Masters to be defeated by their Apprentices.. Jedi have always cooperated together in large groups. Sith never managed to do this, as quest for greater power is inherent to Sith philosophy, which would mean eventually the Sith would fight each other to gain dominance. This would weaken the Sith, and since Jedi always stick together, Sith would be defeated. 2) Becoming as large and numerous as Jedi paints a large target that screams "Come fight us!" By staying small, only Master and Apprentice, and working in shadows, Sith can avoid Jedi until the Master Plan is realized. 3) By making sure the Apprentice has to defeat the Master and then earn the title of Master, the Bane's Order ensures Masters that don't deserve the title, or Apprentices that are unworthy will be eliminated. In this case, all these other Sith are doomed to fail in defeating the Jedi unless Jedi themselves fuck up. Sidious waited long enough for Vader to challenge him in combat, however this never happened. Sidious should have killed Vader for being unworthy then sought out a useful apprentice. Why? Sidious had everything he wanted. He had achieved what every Sith Lord for 5 millennia wanted but could never claim: virtually complete mastery of the galaxy. He didn't need a new apprentice, because he planned on living forever. He doesn't believe in the Rule of Two as some ideal; for a true Sith, there is no ideal beyond the self. And Sidious had nothing to gain by taking on a new apprentice. He was the ultimate Sith Lord; that's the end as far as he's concerned. Vader was a useful apprentice. He was loyal. He was powerful. And for a man who planned on living forever as the immortal Emperor of the galaxy, that's all he needed: someone who would do what he wanted and would be powerful enough to get the job done. So long as Vader served those needs, he would be kept around. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On February 08 2013 10:01 NicolBolas wrote: Why? Sidious had everything he wanted. He had achieved what every Sith Lord for 5 millennia wanted but could never claim: virtually complete mastery of the galaxy. He didn't need a new apprentice, because he planned on living forever. He doesn't believe in the Rule of Two as some ideal; for a true Sith, there is no ideal beyond the self. And Sidious had nothing to gain by taking on a new apprentice. He was the ultimate Sith Lord; that's the end as far as he's concerned. Vader was a useful apprentice. He was loyal. He was powerful. And for a man who planned on living forever as the immortal Emperor of the galaxy, that's all he needed: someone who would do what he wanted and would be powerful enough to get the job done. So long as Vader served those needs, he would be kept around. Disregarding DE, which is ridiculous and poorly written, he had no way to be the immortal emperor. If he had Darth Andeddu's Holocron, maybe, but he did not have it, Dooku found it but kept it for himself. So he needed an Apprentice that would eventually replace him because he did not have the knowledge of eternal life. Bane's Sith Order would die with him as Vader was not capable of recruiting and training a strong enough apprentice. And I doubt that Sidious did not care about the Sith Order. If your point is that Sidious was arrogant and he disregarded the Rule of Two because he thought his reign would never end you would be right, as this caused his downfall. But tell me, if he did not want an apprentice why did he try to lure Luke to Dark Side? He wanted to replace Vader as Luke was stronger and someone that could one day replace him. You might also say that Rule of Two completed its mission and therefore had no importance after the Jedi Purge and the establishment of the Empire. In this case, an apprentice would only have practical uses to Sidious, as he would never obey the rule and let himself be replaced. This could be the better theory about his thought process, because nothing else fits. If he was still obeying the Ro2, he would try to recruit Luke to replace Vader, and if he did not care about the Ro2 anymore, he would just want Anakin Skywalker v2.0 to become his henchman. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zxtqQMh.jpg) This movie is going to blow. | ||
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Fulla
United Kingdom519 Posts
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OKMarius
Norway469 Posts
With beard, and a bit of computer manipulation, I'm sure they could make Hamill look like a badass old jedi: ![[image loading]](http://strangersandaliens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Mark.jpg) | ||
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Chronos.
United States805 Posts
Still, I really hope they do include the original cast in the movie. Obviously they won't be the main characters, that would be pretty ridiculous, Luke will probably have more of a Yoda role and such. I'm pretty excited for it either way. Also, I hope they have a gray Chewbacca to go with the rest of the old-timers XD | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
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DisneylandSC
Netherlands435 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Caz2cdT.jpg) | ||
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AlgeriaT
Sweden2197 Posts
This is going to be a farce. Officially dropping all my hopes now and forgetting about the whole thing. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On March 06 2013 18:46 AlgeriaT wrote: http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/5/4069004/carrie-fisher-confirms-princess-leia-return-for-star-wars-episode-vii This is going to be a farce. Officially dropping all my hopes now and forgetting about the whole thing. Good thing you aren't overreacting... | ||
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Craze
United States561 Posts
On March 06 2013 18:46 AlgeriaT wrote: http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/5/4069004/carrie-fisher-confirms-princess-leia-return-for-star-wars-episode-vii This is going to be a farce. Officially dropping all my hopes now and forgetting about the whole thing. What's the big deal? You expect an older Princess Leia to still look great in her slave outfit? | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11112 Posts
On March 07 2013 05:05 Craze wrote: What's the big deal? You expect an older Princess Leia to still look great in her slave outfit? As long as the next gen wears said slave outfit we're all good here. | ||
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Kaal
Djibouti2585 Posts
It would be so awesome. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
Star Wars creator George Lucas says the films' original megastars -- Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher -- "have already signed" on to return to the screen for Star Wars: Episode VII. Lucas told Bloomberg Businessweek that the signings came even before Disney bought LucasFilm in December. "We had already signed Mark, Carrie and Harrison -- or we were pretty much in the final stages of negotiation. So I called them to say, 'Look, this is what's going on,'" Lucas said in the interview before realizing that he might be spoiling a big Disney announcement. "Maybe I'm not supposed to say that," he added. "I think they want to announce that with some big whoop-de-do, but we were negotiating with them." Lucas: 'Star Wars VII' to reunite original stars | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
Together they will face their toughest foe yet: Darth Ritis | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
If this is a smaller role this is great, but I'm not sure I want the geriatric force as the heroes of this story. | ||
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