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On April 24 2012 03:51 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 02:48 Etrnity wrote:On April 24 2012 02:45 Clarity_nl wrote:On April 24 2012 00:42 LXenJin wrote:On April 23 2012 23:41 Clarity_nl wrote:On April 23 2012 21:46 valheru wrote:On April 23 2012 21:19 Etrnity wrote:On April 23 2012 15:32 GenericTerranPlayer wrote:On April 23 2012 15:25 darkmetal505 wrote:On April 23 2012 13:39 iTzSnypah wrote:
After watching the first 3 episodes there are somethings I don't like:
-Korra is a Waterbender however heavily favors Earthbending. Aang favored Airbending even after learning all 4 elements.
What? She has shown no specific affinity toward any bending discipline. if anything her most significant contributions have been using waterbending; she does it in the probending matches and she bended steam to help bolin escape The show establishes very quickly that she is an Earthbender by nature (the way the avatars are reborn Air -> Earth -> Water -> Fire...think about the order in the last series). The reason we see so much waterbending is because the person that she replaced in the probending matches was a water bender. Keeping to the rules she has to water bend in those matches. Hope this helps :D That's not the series it's air -> water -> earth -> fire as in autumn -> winter -> spring -> summer http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar Well that's the cycle of re-incarnation into different tribes not necessarily the cycle of elemental affinity. I agree she does indeed seem to be better suited to earth/fire rather than water I guess they wanted to have a protagonist of a different sort since water/air have similar personality types. EDIT: Maybe because of Aang's ice-cube time it screwed up the elemental avatar cycle with affinity and tribes? She was born a water bender but she has the personality traits of an earth bender (strong-willed, hot-tempered). This is why air bending is so difficult for her to master, since it is the opposite of earth. ("stand strong and fight" against "juke and dodge") This is actually explained in the first two episodes. The reason Aang had trouble with firebending wasn't be cause he's an airbender, it's because he was raised by the air nomads to avoid conflict and find compromises. Aang didn't have trouble firebending, he actually managed to be able to bend it even before he even mastered waterbending or even learned earthbending. He had trouble Earthbending, and as u said it was because he wanted to avoid conflict and find compromises while earthbending was trying to take things straight on. Personally I always felt that Korra has trouble with airbending instead of the usual firebending(due to her being from the water tribe was because she was raised as the avatar not as a waterbender and of course of her personality as well My mistake, yes. I meant earthbending I feel that's a nice way of looking at it. She was raised as the avatar so she became bold and confrontational, which is the opposite of airbending.  edit: love this show, so glad it's being made, wish I found out later though since now I'm waiting a week for every episode. The trouble with fire bending was not in Aang's inability, but that wind amplified fire! This means that Aang couldn't just use Air to defeat the fire lord, but had to possess the other abilities as well. This was the basis for his journey to learn all four in such a short time. This isn't Naruto man where wind makes fire stronger. In Avatar the elements don't beat each other like rock paper scissor.
I think he's talking about how fire uses oxygen as part combustion in our world. Therfore if there's more oxygen in an area then you can make a larger fire.
That and in the episode bitter work, Iroh talks about how the combination of elements in one person is what makes the avatar so powerful: the understanding of different bending techniques makes the bending techniques in one element stronger.
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On April 24 2012 03:05 Jell wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 12:11 TheBatman wrote:On April 23 2012 12:08 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On April 23 2012 12:04 Jell wrote:
So, we all know who the masked guy is right? I mean it's pretty obvious... who? I'm guessed it's one of Aangs sons but his backstory in episode 3 wouldn't match with it. I think he also a bender Aang had 3 kids, a waterbender, a airbender and a non-bender. Seeing as Aang was the only person who knew how to energy-bend it makes sense he taught it to his children, or even only to the non-bender kid.
Pretty sure Amon is not one of Aang's kids, unless he is Tenzin. Bumi and Kya both have Katara's darker skin tone and Amon's skin is white.
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On April 24 2012 04:00 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 03:05 Jell wrote:On April 23 2012 12:11 TheBatman wrote:On April 23 2012 12:08 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On April 23 2012 12:04 Jell wrote:
So, we all know who the masked guy is right? I mean it's pretty obvious... who? I'm guessed it's one of Aangs sons but his backstory in episode 3 wouldn't match with it. I think he also a bender Aang had 3 kids, a waterbender, a airbender and a non-bender. Seeing as Aang was the only person who knew how to energy-bend it makes sense he taught it to his children, or even only to the non-bender kid. Pretty sure Amon is not one of Aang's kids, unless he is Tenzin. Bumi and Kya both have Katara's darker skin tone and Amon's skin is white.
How did you see his skin color with his mask on?
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So I just watched the 3rd episode and I'm pretty disappointed with the current setup.
These are my theories:
Amon can remove bending, and that is unknown knowledge and makes it hard to give a plausible backstory (which sucks)
Amon is the Avatar and Korra is some new kind of bender that can bend 3 of the elements but not the 4th (cooler)
Amon and Korra are both Avatars because Aang's avatar cycle lasted too long because he was mia for so long (coolest)
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You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's.
double edit: For reference here is a screencap of Amon with his skin color clearly shown. Take my word for it it stays the same through the whole thing: http://i.imgur.com/djzmf.png
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On April 24 2012 04:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's.
They fucked up the timeline when making the story for Kyoshi. She doesn't look a day over 30. They were only thinking of having 2 avatars before Aang originally and later introduced another who died too early before Kyoshi or something.
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Amon's voice is way too deep to be a son of Aang!
+ Show Spoiler +Seriously though that guy voices SO MANY VOICES
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On April 24 2012 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 03:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Korra's struggles? When she was 3 years old she knocked a hole through the wall and started shooting elements at the White Lotus guys. Her personality is rooted specifically in her and has nothing to do with the rest of the backstory so far. Her character is that way purely because Michael and Bryan wanted it that way -- opposite Aang. It's very, very easy to compare them personality wise because their personalities were established before backgrounds and obstacles even mattered. Yes, her personality is rooted in herself and not on any pretenses, but from a storytelling standpoint, you are incorrect in saying that the writers simply "wanted it that way." The world around Korra is what makes her so interesting. The stark contrast in her personality to the situation she is put into is what makes her interesting to watch at all. They didn't want her to be that way because they thought it would be fun and different. They wanted her to be that way because the world she lives in needed her to be that way for us to care about it. The same goes for Aang. The plot revolved around a hundred year war in which the world was on the verge of destruction. Aang could have been like Korra, but he wasn't. Not because writers thought "the Avatar should be like this because ladeeda," but because that the most interesting drama would come from someone who didn't know what they were doing and weren't sure of whether they could do it or not. The characters of any story are shaped around the plot, not the other way around. You can think of it that way, but that leads to less depth in the viewing experience imo. edit: Reaching "way too hard" into a story is what makes it actually good. Do you follow Michael and Bryan's interviews? They're very good at world building but the concept of Korra's personality and approach to things came about before the plot. The creators have been asked this dozens of times and always respond with "we wanted an avatar who was very different from Aang." That's all the reason they need -- they're storytellers and they wanted to tell a different story, that's not as simple as "ladeeda" as you put it. And no, a story can be character driven instead of plot driven. Though I'd say right now it's too early to determine whether in TLoK the characters drive the plot or the plot drives the characters. In the first series it was obviously the latter as everything was pushed on by the invisible threat of war and imminent destruction instead of the character's own goals. I get the feeling Korra's gonna be the same. Nothing wrong with it, though, just stating a point. There's nothing wrong with reaching into a show to pick out personal meaning, but it's demonstrably false that Korra's personality has been dictated by the show's plot -- her actions in regard to the plot obviously have, but her original premise is not. That's the entire point of the scene where they find her, to establish her, beyond a shadow of a doubt as a rash and bullheaded character.
I will admit that I do not watch the interviews. I mean, I agree with you that they obviously didn't want to have a character that was similar to their previous leading role. That would make this series a sequel, which it clearly isn't. It's a whole new ball game.
That I can respect, but to say that a series like the Avatar is anything but plot driven is silly to me. I strongly believe that they couldn't even achieve a character such as Korra without the plot that was likely already brewing in the creators' minds. I believe their idea to create Korra as an antithesis of Aang was more rooted from the fact that they knew they had to make conflicts brewing in Republic City an antithesis of the Hundred-Year War, rather than the latter being stemmed from the former.
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On April 24 2012 04:19 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's. They fucked up the timeline when making the story for Kyoshi. She doesn't look a day over 30. They were only thinking of having 2 avatars before Aang originally and later introduced another who died too early before Kyoshi or something.
Who says the Avatar ages like a normal person? Perhaps he/she ages extremely slowly, along with the increased life-expectancy?
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On April 24 2012 04:22 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:19 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 24 2012 04:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's. They fucked up the timeline when making the story for Kyoshi. She doesn't look a day over 30. They were only thinking of having 2 avatars before Aang originally and later introduced another who died too early before Kyoshi or something. Who says the Avatar ages like a normal person? Perhaps he/she ages extremely slowly, along with the increased life-expectancy?
Roku does.
The producers admitted they were only planning to have two named Avatars before Aang too.
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On April 24 2012 04:22 megapants wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 24 2012 03:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Korra's struggles? When she was 3 years old she knocked a hole through the wall and started shooting elements at the White Lotus guys. Her personality is rooted specifically in her and has nothing to do with the rest of the backstory so far. Her character is that way purely because Michael and Bryan wanted it that way -- opposite Aang. It's very, very easy to compare them personality wise because their personalities were established before backgrounds and obstacles even mattered. Yes, her personality is rooted in herself and not on any pretenses, but from a storytelling standpoint, you are incorrect in saying that the writers simply "wanted it that way." The world around Korra is what makes her so interesting. The stark contrast in her personality to the situation she is put into is what makes her interesting to watch at all. They didn't want her to be that way because they thought it would be fun and different. They wanted her to be that way because the world she lives in needed her to be that way for us to care about it. The same goes for Aang. The plot revolved around a hundred year war in which the world was on the verge of destruction. Aang could have been like Korra, but he wasn't. Not because writers thought "the Avatar should be like this because ladeeda," but because that the most interesting drama would come from someone who didn't know what they were doing and weren't sure of whether they could do it or not. The characters of any story are shaped around the plot, not the other way around. You can think of it that way, but that leads to less depth in the viewing experience imo. edit: Reaching "way too hard" into a story is what makes it actually good. Do you follow Michael and Bryan's interviews? They're very good at world building but the concept of Korra's personality and approach to things came about before the plot. The creators have been asked this dozens of times and always respond with "we wanted an avatar who was very different from Aang." That's all the reason they need -- they're storytellers and they wanted to tell a different story, that's not as simple as "ladeeda" as you put it. And no, a story can be character driven instead of plot driven. Though I'd say right now it's too early to determine whether in TLoK the characters drive the plot or the plot drives the characters. In the first series it was obviously the latter as everything was pushed on by the invisible threat of war and imminent destruction instead of the character's own goals. I get the feeling Korra's gonna be the same. Nothing wrong with it, though, just stating a point. There's nothing wrong with reaching into a show to pick out personal meaning, but it's demonstrably false that Korra's personality has been dictated by the show's plot -- her actions in regard to the plot obviously have, but her original premise is not. That's the entire point of the scene where they find her, to establish her, beyond a shadow of a doubt as a rash and bullheaded character. I will admit that I do not watch the interviews. I mean, I agree with you that they obviously didn't want to have a character that was similar to their previous leading role. That would make this series a sequel, which it clearly isn't. It's a whole new ball game. That I can respect, but to say that a series like the Avatar is anything but plot driven is silly to me. I strongly believe that they couldn't even achieve a character such as Korra without the plot that was likely already brewing in the creators' minds. I believe their idea to create Korra as an antithesis of Aang was more rooted from the fact that they knew they had to make conflicts brewing in Republic City an antithesis of the Hundred-Year War, rather than the latter being stemmed from the former.
They might've adapated her or something but no, Korra's upfront and bolder personality was a thing before republic city was even on the storyboard. This was like right after TLA ended where they do all those interview panels about future projects at Conventions.
I mean both Aang and Korra face similar problems -- impending war. With Aang it was between nations, with Korra it's more of a civil war. Their personalities will interact with these things differently but they're largely similar conflicts. I'm pretty sure Aang could exist in Republic City and Korra in TLA personality wise if they had so chose.
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On April 24 2012 04:25 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:22 Millitron wrote:On April 24 2012 04:19 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 24 2012 04:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's. They fucked up the timeline when making the story for Kyoshi. She doesn't look a day over 30. They were only thinking of having 2 avatars before Aang originally and later introduced another who died too early before Kyoshi or something. Who says the Avatar ages like a normal person? Perhaps he/she ages extremely slowly, along with the increased life-expectancy? Roku does. The producers admitted they were only planning to have two named Avatars before Aang too.
They still planned on having Kiyoshi, then. I don't see how that fucks anything up at all. I mean Kiyoshi, Kuruk and Yangchen's spirits didn't necessarily have to be shown at the age they died at, even if Roku was. At most it's a minor inconsistency.
For instance, in the opening sequence we see Roku at his age of death bending fire, Kiyoshi as she's normally seen bending Earth, Korra bending water at her current age and Aang bending air at middle age instead of how you'd expect him to look when he's in his late 60s.
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On April 24 2012 04:19 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's. They fucked up the timeline when making the story for Kyoshi. She doesn't look a day over 30. They were only thinking of having 2 avatars before Aang originally and later introduced another who died too early before Kyoshi or something.
They didn't mess up with Kyoshi. I don't know why exactly Roku is the only past Avatar whose spirit form is old while all the other past avatars' spirit forms are from their youths (maybe he choose to have it that way) but the reason why Kyoshi lived so long is because the creators wanted to play on eastern myths where really spiritual people live beyond the normal life expectancy which is why Kyoshi lived past 200. And seeing Roku and also the statue of Aang I'm sure all the past avatars aged normally. Kyoshi probably looked like a grandma when she passed away too but just choose to have her spirit form be of her youth like the other past avatars.
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On April 24 2012 04:32 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:19 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 24 2012 04:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's. They fucked up the timeline when making the story for Kyoshi. She doesn't look a day over 30. They were only thinking of having 2 avatars before Aang originally and later introduced another who died too early before Kyoshi or something. They didn't mess up with Kyoshi. I don't know why exactly Roku is the only past Avatar whose spirit form is old while all the other past avatars' spirit forms are from their youths (maybe he choose to have it that way) but the reason why Kyoshi lived so long is because the creators wanted to play on eastern myths where really spiritual people live beyond the normal life expectancy which is why Kyoshi lived past 200. And seeing Roku and also the statue of Aang I'm sure all the past avatars aged normally. Kyoshi probably looked like a grandma when she passed away too but just choose to have her spirit form be of her youth like the other past avatars.
Oh I thought they just made a mistake and accidentally set kuruk's date of death too early before the death of Kyoshi. My bad.
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On April 24 2012 04:25 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:22 Millitron wrote:On April 24 2012 04:19 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 24 2012 04:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
You can see his hand's color when he's taking the guy's bending away and during the entire bit at the rally. Could be an animation oversight but I doubt it.
edit for the above: Aang's avatar cycle was shorter than Kiyoshi's. They fucked up the timeline when making the story for Kyoshi. She doesn't look a day over 30. They were only thinking of having 2 avatars before Aang originally and later introduced another who died too early before Kyoshi or something. Who says the Avatar ages like a normal person? Perhaps he/she ages extremely slowly, along with the increased life-expectancy? Roku does. The producers admitted they were only planning to have two named Avatars before Aang too.
I've been reading through this: http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/History
Might be worth putting it in the OP too, idk.
I would say that all the times we have flashbacks to Kyoshi's life, the events are early in her career. As for why she also appears young in her spiritual form, perhaps its a choice?
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On April 24 2012 04:27 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 24 2012 03:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Korra's struggles? When she was 3 years old she knocked a hole through the wall and started shooting elements at the White Lotus guys. Her personality is rooted specifically in her and has nothing to do with the rest of the backstory so far. Her character is that way purely because Michael and Bryan wanted it that way -- opposite Aang. It's very, very easy to compare them personality wise because their personalities were established before backgrounds and obstacles even mattered. Yes, her personality is rooted in herself and not on any pretenses, but from a storytelling standpoint, you are incorrect in saying that the writers simply "wanted it that way." The world around Korra is what makes her so interesting. The stark contrast in her personality to the situation she is put into is what makes her interesting to watch at all. They didn't want her to be that way because they thought it would be fun and different. They wanted her to be that way because the world she lives in needed her to be that way for us to care about it. The same goes for Aang. The plot revolved around a hundred year war in which the world was on the verge of destruction. Aang could have been like Korra, but he wasn't. Not because writers thought "the Avatar should be like this because ladeeda," but because that the most interesting drama would come from someone who didn't know what they were doing and weren't sure of whether they could do it or not. The characters of any story are shaped around the plot, not the other way around. You can think of it that way, but that leads to less depth in the viewing experience imo. edit: Reaching "way too hard" into a story is what makes it actually good. Do you follow Michael and Bryan's interviews? They're very good at world building but the concept of Korra's personality and approach to things came about before the plot. The creators have been asked this dozens of times and always respond with "we wanted an avatar who was very different from Aang." That's all the reason they need -- they're storytellers and they wanted to tell a different story, that's not as simple as "ladeeda" as you put it. And no, a story can be character driven instead of plot driven. Though I'd say right now it's too early to determine whether in TLoK the characters drive the plot or the plot drives the characters. In the first series it was obviously the latter as everything was pushed on by the invisible threat of war and imminent destruction instead of the character's own goals. I get the feeling Korra's gonna be the same. Nothing wrong with it, though, just stating a point. There's nothing wrong with reaching into a show to pick out personal meaning, but it's demonstrably false that Korra's personality has been dictated by the show's plot -- her actions in regard to the plot obviously have, but her original premise is not. That's the entire point of the scene where they find her, to establish her, beyond a shadow of a doubt as a rash and bullheaded character. I will admit that I do not watch the interviews. I mean, I agree with you that they obviously didn't want to have a character that was similar to their previous leading role. That would make this series a sequel, which it clearly isn't. It's a whole new ball game. That I can respect, but to say that a series like the Avatar is anything but plot driven is silly to me. I strongly believe that they couldn't even achieve a character such as Korra without the plot that was likely already brewing in the creators' minds. I believe their idea to create Korra as an antithesis of Aang was more rooted from the fact that they knew they had to make conflicts brewing in Republic City an antithesis of the Hundred-Year War, rather than the latter being stemmed from the former. They might've adapated her or something but no, Korra's upfront and bolder personality was a thing before republic city was even on the storyboard. This was like right after TLA ended where they do all those interview panels about future projects at Conventions. I mean both Aang and Korra face similar problems -- impending war. With Aang it was between nations, with Korra it's more of a civil war. Their personalities will interact with these things differently but they're largely similar conflicts. I'm pretty sure Aang could exist in Republic City and Korra in TLA personality wise if they had so chose.
My point isn't that they developed Republic City or anything about the world Korra lives in prior to considering her character, my point is that the clear follow-up to the plot of The Last Airbender was the one that stands before us today, which was already likely deeply imbedded into their psyches before even considering what Korra would be like. Her personality is a direct effect of the plot that had already been pre-written in the creators' minds.
When I look at the two different Avatars, I see them as representations of the conflicts of the time they live in. The Last Airbender's plot revolved entirely around the idea of ending a worldwide war and bringing peace. The reason Aang was so interesting to me was that he lived in a time of peace and was resurrected into the midst of the war. His personality and experiences starkly contrast the situation he was thrown into. Aang's feelings towards stopping the war epitomize the whole story: "Is the situation really so bad that I have to kill the Fire Lord or watch the world be destroyed?"
I see the Legend of Korra as a complete opposite of that concept. The Avatar is now born into a time of peace and is surprised at the lack of war and turmoil, considering how important a role she supposedly plays in keeping the balance of the world. She questions the fact that she is unneeded, and her desire to weed the garden that is Republic City is the idea behind the new plot: "How can there truly be peace in the world when the Avatar is still a part of it?" If Korra wasn't the person to question the way things were, someone else would have. But then we would have a replay of the dynamic between Aang and Katara. Her personality was inevitable to the plot, the fact that she is the one that has it is just the most sensible way of approaching the story.
This is just common sense in storytelling, I think. If it doesn't make sense, then by all means, call me a quack. But the development of the show - regardless of whether they thought about Korra being a badass or a pussy - revolves around the world they live in. How could it not? This isn't a show about high school and teen pregnancies and boyfriends and girlfriends, it's about the crazy shit that goes on in the world - both theirs and ours. The character interactions are simply a glue to hold it all together.
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On April 24 2012 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 03:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Korra's struggles? When she was 3 years old she knocked a hole through the wall and started shooting elements at the White Lotus guys. Her personality is rooted specifically in her and has nothing to do with the rest of the backstory so far. Her character is that way purely because Michael and Bryan wanted it that way -- opposite Aang. It's very, very easy to compare them personality wise because their personalities were established before backgrounds and obstacles even mattered. Yes, her personality is rooted in herself and not on any pretenses, but from a storytelling standpoint, you are incorrect in saying that the writers simply "wanted it that way." The world around Korra is what makes her so interesting. The stark contrast in her personality to the situation she is put into is what makes her interesting to watch at all. They didn't want her to be that way because they thought it would be fun and different. They wanted her to be that way because the world she lives in needed her to be that way for us to care about it. The same goes for Aang. The plot revolved around a hundred year war in which the world was on the verge of destruction. Aang could have been like Korra, but he wasn't. Not because writers thought "the Avatar should be like this because ladeeda," but because that the most interesting drama would come from someone who didn't know what they were doing and weren't sure of whether they could do it or not. The characters of any story are shaped around the plot, not the other way around. You can think of it that way, but that leads to less depth in the viewing experience imo. edit: Reaching "way too hard" into a story is what makes it actually good. Do you follow Michael and Bryan's interviews? They're very good at world building but the concept of Korra's personality and approach to things came about before the plot. The creators have been asked this dozens of times and always respond with "we wanted an avatar who was very different from Aang." That's all the reason they need -- they're storytellers and they wanted to tell a different story, that's not as simple as "ladeeda" as you put it. And no, a story can be character driven instead of plot driven. Though I'd say right now it's too early to determine whether in TLoK the characters drive the plot or the plot drives the characters. In the first series it was obviously the latter as everything was pushed on by the invisible threat of war and imminent destruction instead of the character's own goals. I get the feeling Korra's gonna be the same. Nothing wrong with it, though, just stating a point. There's nothing wrong with reaching into a show to pick out personal meaning, but it's demonstrably false that Korra's personality has been dictated by the show's plot -- her actions in regard to the plot obviously have, but her original premise is not. That's the entire point of the scene where they find her, to establish her, beyond a shadow of a doubt as a rash and bullheaded character.
I think it's fair to say -whether the chicken or the egg came first- that both exist in harmony at this point.
The personality makes sense, as does the reason for the personality existing.
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On April 24 2012 04:56 megapants wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:27 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 24 2012 04:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 24 2012 03:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Korra's struggles? When she was 3 years old she knocked a hole through the wall and started shooting elements at the White Lotus guys. Her personality is rooted specifically in her and has nothing to do with the rest of the backstory so far. Her character is that way purely because Michael and Bryan wanted it that way -- opposite Aang. It's very, very easy to compare them personality wise because their personalities were established before backgrounds and obstacles even mattered. Yes, her personality is rooted in herself and not on any pretenses, but from a storytelling standpoint, you are incorrect in saying that the writers simply "wanted it that way." The world around Korra is what makes her so interesting. The stark contrast in her personality to the situation she is put into is what makes her interesting to watch at all. They didn't want her to be that way because they thought it would be fun and different. They wanted her to be that way because the world she lives in needed her to be that way for us to care about it. The same goes for Aang. The plot revolved around a hundred year war in which the world was on the verge of destruction. Aang could have been like Korra, but he wasn't. Not because writers thought "the Avatar should be like this because ladeeda," but because that the most interesting drama would come from someone who didn't know what they were doing and weren't sure of whether they could do it or not. The characters of any story are shaped around the plot, not the other way around. You can think of it that way, but that leads to less depth in the viewing experience imo. edit: Reaching "way too hard" into a story is what makes it actually good. Do you follow Michael and Bryan's interviews? They're very good at world building but the concept of Korra's personality and approach to things came about before the plot. The creators have been asked this dozens of times and always respond with "we wanted an avatar who was very different from Aang." That's all the reason they need -- they're storytellers and they wanted to tell a different story, that's not as simple as "ladeeda" as you put it. And no, a story can be character driven instead of plot driven. Though I'd say right now it's too early to determine whether in TLoK the characters drive the plot or the plot drives the characters. In the first series it was obviously the latter as everything was pushed on by the invisible threat of war and imminent destruction instead of the character's own goals. I get the feeling Korra's gonna be the same. Nothing wrong with it, though, just stating a point. There's nothing wrong with reaching into a show to pick out personal meaning, but it's demonstrably false that Korra's personality has been dictated by the show's plot -- her actions in regard to the plot obviously have, but her original premise is not. That's the entire point of the scene where they find her, to establish her, beyond a shadow of a doubt as a rash and bullheaded character. I will admit that I do not watch the interviews. I mean, I agree with you that they obviously didn't want to have a character that was similar to their previous leading role. That would make this series a sequel, which it clearly isn't. It's a whole new ball game. That I can respect, but to say that a series like the Avatar is anything but plot driven is silly to me. I strongly believe that they couldn't even achieve a character such as Korra without the plot that was likely already brewing in the creators' minds. I believe their idea to create Korra as an antithesis of Aang was more rooted from the fact that they knew they had to make conflicts brewing in Republic City an antithesis of the Hundred-Year War, rather than the latter being stemmed from the former. They might've adapated her or something but no, Korra's upfront and bolder personality was a thing before republic city was even on the storyboard. This was like right after TLA ended where they do all those interview panels about future projects at Conventions. I mean both Aang and Korra face similar problems -- impending war. With Aang it was between nations, with Korra it's more of a civil war. Their personalities will interact with these things differently but they're largely similar conflicts. I'm pretty sure Aang could exist in Republic City and Korra in TLA personality wise if they had so chose. My point isn't that they developed Republic City or anything about the world Korra lives in prior to considering her character, my point is that the clear follow-up to the plot of The Last Airbender was the one that stands before us today, which was already likely deeply imbedded into their psyches before even considering what Korra would be like. Her personality is a direct effect of the plot that had already been pre-written in the creators' minds. When I look at the two different Avatars, I see them as representations of the conflicts of the time they live in. The Last Airbender's plot revolved entirely around the idea of ending a worldwide war and bringing peace. The reason Aang was so interesting to me was that he lived in a time of peace and was resurrected into the midst of the war. His personality and experiences starkly contrast the situation he was thrown into. Aang's feelings towards stopping the war epitomize the whole story: "Is the situation really so bad that I have to kill the Fire Lord or watch the world be destroyed?" I see the Legend of Korra as a complete opposite of that concept. The Avatar is now born into a time of peace and is surprised at the lack of war and turmoil, considering how important a role she supposedly plays in keeping the balance of the world. She questions the fact that she is unneeded, and her desire to weed the garden that is Republic City is the idea behind the new plot: "How can there truly be peace in the world when the Avatar is still a part of it?" If Korra wasn't the person to question the way things were, someone else would have. But then we would have a replay of the dynamic between Aang and Katara. Her personality was inevitable to the plot, the fact that she is the one that has it is just the most sensible way of approaching the story. This is just common sense in storytelling, I think. If it doesn't make sense, then by all means, call me a quack. But the development of the show - regardless of whether they thought about Korra being a badass or a pussy - revolves around the world they live in. How could it not? This isn't a show about high school and teen pregnancies and boyfriends and girlfriends, it's about the crazy shit that goes on in the world - both theirs and ours. The character interactions are simply a glue to hold it all together.
Right, this is all well and good but really strays away from the original point I made about her personality being completely separate from her struggles. You're just telling me what the basic story premise and character conflict is which is all true but wasn't why I attempted to correct you.
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On April 24 2012 05:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 04:56 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 04:27 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 24 2012 04:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:53 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 24 2012 03:22 megapants wrote:On April 24 2012 03:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Korra's struggles? When she was 3 years old she knocked a hole through the wall and started shooting elements at the White Lotus guys. Her personality is rooted specifically in her and has nothing to do with the rest of the backstory so far. Her character is that way purely because Michael and Bryan wanted it that way -- opposite Aang. It's very, very easy to compare them personality wise because their personalities were established before backgrounds and obstacles even mattered. Yes, her personality is rooted in herself and not on any pretenses, but from a storytelling standpoint, you are incorrect in saying that the writers simply "wanted it that way." The world around Korra is what makes her so interesting. The stark contrast in her personality to the situation she is put into is what makes her interesting to watch at all. They didn't want her to be that way because they thought it would be fun and different. They wanted her to be that way because the world she lives in needed her to be that way for us to care about it. The same goes for Aang. The plot revolved around a hundred year war in which the world was on the verge of destruction. Aang could have been like Korra, but he wasn't. Not because writers thought "the Avatar should be like this because ladeeda," but because that the most interesting drama would come from someone who didn't know what they were doing and weren't sure of whether they could do it or not. The characters of any story are shaped around the plot, not the other way around. You can think of it that way, but that leads to less depth in the viewing experience imo. edit: Reaching "way too hard" into a story is what makes it actually good. Do you follow Michael and Bryan's interviews? They're very good at world building but the concept of Korra's personality and approach to things came about before the plot. The creators have been asked this dozens of times and always respond with "we wanted an avatar who was very different from Aang." That's all the reason they need -- they're storytellers and they wanted to tell a different story, that's not as simple as "ladeeda" as you put it. And no, a story can be character driven instead of plot driven. Though I'd say right now it's too early to determine whether in TLoK the characters drive the plot or the plot drives the characters. In the first series it was obviously the latter as everything was pushed on by the invisible threat of war and imminent destruction instead of the character's own goals. I get the feeling Korra's gonna be the same. Nothing wrong with it, though, just stating a point. There's nothing wrong with reaching into a show to pick out personal meaning, but it's demonstrably false that Korra's personality has been dictated by the show's plot -- her actions in regard to the plot obviously have, but her original premise is not. That's the entire point of the scene where they find her, to establish her, beyond a shadow of a doubt as a rash and bullheaded character. I will admit that I do not watch the interviews. I mean, I agree with you that they obviously didn't want to have a character that was similar to their previous leading role. That would make this series a sequel, which it clearly isn't. It's a whole new ball game. That I can respect, but to say that a series like the Avatar is anything but plot driven is silly to me. I strongly believe that they couldn't even achieve a character such as Korra without the plot that was likely already brewing in the creators' minds. I believe their idea to create Korra as an antithesis of Aang was more rooted from the fact that they knew they had to make conflicts brewing in Republic City an antithesis of the Hundred-Year War, rather than the latter being stemmed from the former. They might've adapated her or something but no, Korra's upfront and bolder personality was a thing before republic city was even on the storyboard. This was like right after TLA ended where they do all those interview panels about future projects at Conventions. I mean both Aang and Korra face similar problems -- impending war. With Aang it was between nations, with Korra it's more of a civil war. Their personalities will interact with these things differently but they're largely similar conflicts. I'm pretty sure Aang could exist in Republic City and Korra in TLA personality wise if they had so chose. My point isn't that they developed Republic City or anything about the world Korra lives in prior to considering her character, my point is that the clear follow-up to the plot of The Last Airbender was the one that stands before us today, which was already likely deeply imbedded into their psyches before even considering what Korra would be like. Her personality is a direct effect of the plot that had already been pre-written in the creators' minds. When I look at the two different Avatars, I see them as representations of the conflicts of the time they live in. The Last Airbender's plot revolved entirely around the idea of ending a worldwide war and bringing peace. The reason Aang was so interesting to me was that he lived in a time of peace and was resurrected into the midst of the war. His personality and experiences starkly contrast the situation he was thrown into. Aang's feelings towards stopping the war epitomize the whole story: "Is the situation really so bad that I have to kill the Fire Lord or watch the world be destroyed?" I see the Legend of Korra as a complete opposite of that concept. The Avatar is now born into a time of peace and is surprised at the lack of war and turmoil, considering how important a role she supposedly plays in keeping the balance of the world. She questions the fact that she is unneeded, and her desire to weed the garden that is Republic City is the idea behind the new plot: "How can there truly be peace in the world when the Avatar is still a part of it?" If Korra wasn't the person to question the way things were, someone else would have. But then we would have a replay of the dynamic between Aang and Katara. Her personality was inevitable to the plot, the fact that she is the one that has it is just the most sensible way of approaching the story. This is just common sense in storytelling, I think. If it doesn't make sense, then by all means, call me a quack. But the development of the show - regardless of whether they thought about Korra being a badass or a pussy - revolves around the world they live in. How could it not? This isn't a show about high school and teen pregnancies and boyfriends and girlfriends, it's about the crazy shit that goes on in the world - both theirs and ours. The character interactions are simply a glue to hold it all together. Right, this is all well and good but really strays away from the original point I made about her personality being completely separate from her struggles. You're just telling me what the basic story premise and character conflict is which is all true but wasn't why I attempted to correct you.
I'm not straying from my original point, which was that the characters personalities are not so easily comparable because the writers wished to avoid retreading and that they were born directly from the plot and their situation. Your point seems to me to be that Korra was not bound to be the character that she is and that the creators simply decided to do so on a whim, if you will, which I think is false. In my eyes, there was pretty much no other character Korra could have been. Delving into some spiritual dialect here, it was her destiny to be the character that she is.
You don't seem to want to put the two aspects together and understand how they clearly are dependent on each other. Her personality is rooted from character conflict even though it hasn't actually happened to her yet. Her personality may not be caused by her struggles, but it was directly decided on by the story and the conflicts that would have to take place for the story to be interesting. My point is that the creators created the personality for a reason, and that reason being that there was no choice to do so based on the plot that was bound to be developed - not to simply avoid retreading. All in all, Korra was going to be a character who seeks answers to her questions - in a time of peace, the most dramatic way to do so is with someone who does it by force.
On April 24 2012 05:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think it's fair to say -whether the chicken or the egg came first- that both exist in harmony at this point.
The personality makes sense, as does the reason for the personality existing.
I agree that it seems like a very "chicken vs egg" discussion, but when you have a story that prioritizes plot over characters, its hard for me to believe that the characters they considered even laid a dent in the plot they had planned out. Regardless of what kind of character Korra was going to be, the outcome of the overarching story was going to remain the same. They simply decided on her personality to spice it up to the max, regardless of whether they realized it or not (which I highly doubt they would do without realizing, being the professionals they are).
One can say, "Right when The Last Airbender ended the creators were like, 'alright, we're making the next Avatar the exact opposite of Aang.'" However, the way I see it, the creators had prefaced that thought with "Alright guys, next series is gonna be about how the world that Aang creates goes into the shithole," like half-way before The Last Airbender even ended, possibly before even actually producing the first series.
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On April 23 2012 18:53 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 18:05 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Heheh well I notice the fighting is obviously really well animated, (way better than the big 3 popular anime/manga one piece bleach naruto, tho mostly the latter two, god the animation is so horrible/inconsistent for an action show), but I meant I didn't notice the mouth movement :D
I've re-looked at it and wow lol, this is so much better than in anime xD.
Another thing, I'm not sure I quite like the CG backgrounds during fights. It definitely makes it feel much deeper/real, and makes it much more dramatic. But I usually dislike CG just cus it makes things look awkward since it's not 2D. However their use of it in korra looks fine, and i'm indifferent about it for now. It's not 2D but it still blends in well. However, when they had that CG car, that was quite annoying to see. LoK is still probably one of the best shows I've seen using CG but it still just feels weird. The car's not supposed to attract that much attention is it? It should be the guy in it and Bolin's expression/reaction. (Look at Rebuild of Evangelion, omg their use of CG is so annoying lol).
Which makes me question tho; if the CG for that one car for that one scene was pretty good (relatively), is it really even worth it to make it CG? The car was only there for a few seconds, why couldn't they have just kept it 2D? Did they really really need to show the car bouncing up and down as the guy came off of it, instead of just keeping a still background and drawing focus to the guy coming out of it instead of the car itself? lol, ive only seen a couple animes but I'm assuming youre referring to the fact that talking usually consists of two movements: open mouth and close mouth. The animation is usually pretty top notch in Avatar. As comparison, I remember sometimes in Naruto the movements were just so clunky and their expressions bordered on the derp face ![[image loading]](http://i46.tinypic.com/10qe49y.jpg)
LOL is that picture real or edited?
There are a couple fail animation clips/fight scenes on youtube, they are hilarious to watch. Though some of them are actually good as well (the ones I think where they hire additional [better] people to direct the art for more important episodes).
Anyways yeah I guess another part is the mouth moves a lot faster in Avatar it seems. Much more flapping. And yea there's more than just 2-3 states of the mouth (open, closed, mid way) xD
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