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On October 04 2011 16:09 Basileus wrote:
I think when he was spinning the gun he was trying to decide whether to kill himself or not. I love this show!!! I think either Gus poisoned the kid or he is sick in some other way. Killing an innocent kid is too far for Walter IMO. Either Gus could be a genius for developing such an complex scheme or Walter has developed some serious paranoia. I am interested if they explain why Gus walked away from the car. Did he have a hunch? Or perhaps someone who tailed behind him and watched the car when he was in the hospital. Gus could have been mocking and challenging Walter by walking to that parking level, knowing there was a bomb, just like he stood in front of the cartel's sniper.
Gus learned that the kid had been poisoned, something he didn't know up to that point. Jesse told him in a bit of a *wink wink i know what you did motherfucker* way.
Gus however was suprised that the child had been poisoned.
As he walks back to his car he realises that it's all coming together too much. He knows he and Walt are gunning for each other and suddenly he has to go out of his way, out from his safehouse, to go to a hospital.
He realises that Walter poisoned the child (since he knows he didn't do it) and did it so that Jesse would stick around at the hospital and Gus would be forced to meet him there.
Walter went so far as to poison a child just to lure Gus to the hospital so Gus knows that Walter has to be planning something. He realises all this just before he steps into his car and decides to alter up his routine so he can avoid whatever Walt has planned. A car bomb isn't hard to make for someone like Walt.
The fact that Gus avoided the bomb supports that Walt poisoned the child. If Gus had poisoned the child then he would have known that all along and when Jesse told him that it wouldn't affect him in any way, there would be no reason to change up his routine because then he would have ended up at the hospital as a result of his own actions. But because Walt poisoned the child he realises he has been forced to the hospital by Walters actions.
If Gus poisoned the child then the only reason he avoided the car bomb would be because he is a prophet whom receives visions.
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I like it Zalz, I already found the whole thing a bit too, coincedental I'd say. I cannot wait for next week, very excited!
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yall just paranoid people, all we know is the kid is sick, never said it was poison just jesse said it was.
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On October 04 2011 22:38 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 16:09 Basileus wrote:
I think when he was spinning the gun he was trying to decide whether to kill himself or not. I love this show!!! I think either Gus poisoned the kid or he is sick in some other way. Killing an innocent kid is too far for Walter IMO. Either Gus could be a genius for developing such an complex scheme or Walter has developed some serious paranoia. I am interested if they explain why Gus walked away from the car. Did he have a hunch? Or perhaps someone who tailed behind him and watched the car when he was in the hospital. Gus could have been mocking and challenging Walter by walking to that parking level, knowing there was a bomb, just like he stood in front of the cartel's sniper. Gus learned that the kid had been poisoned, something he didn't know up to that point. Jesse told him in a bit of a *wink wink i know what you did motherfucker* way. Gus however was suprised that the child had been poisoned. As he walks back to his car he realises that it's all coming together too much. He knows he and Walt are gunning for each other and suddenly he has to go out of his way, out from his safehouse, to go to a hospital. He realises that Walter poisoned the child (since he knows he didn't do it) and did it so that Jesse would stick around at the hospital and Gus would be forced to meet him there. Walter went so far as to poison a child just to lure Gus to the hospital so Gus knows that Walter has to be planning something. He realises all this just before he steps into his car and decides to alter up his routine so he can avoid whatever Walt has planned. A car bomb isn't hard to make for someone like Walt. The fact that Gus avoided the bomb supports that Walt poisoned the child. If Gus had poisoned the child then he would have known that all along and when Jesse told him that it wouldn't affect him in any way, there would be no reason to change up his routine because then he would have ended up at the hospital as a result of his own actions. But because Walt poisoned the child he realises he has been forced to the hospital by Walters actions. If Gus poisoned the child then the only reason he avoided the car bomb would be because he is a prophet whom receives visions.
This last bit is not exactly true. If Gus did poison the kid, he still has reason to alter his behavior because Jesse has revealed his knowledge of the poisoning. Still, either Walt or Gus poisoning the kid in an attempt to manipulate Jesse in order to provoke such specific reactions from each other seems too much to me.
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On October 05 2011 04:18 phyren wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:38 zalz wrote:On October 04 2011 16:09 Basileus wrote:
I think when he was spinning the gun he was trying to decide whether to kill himself or not. I love this show!!! I think either Gus poisoned the kid or he is sick in some other way. Killing an innocent kid is too far for Walter IMO. Either Gus could be a genius for developing such an complex scheme or Walter has developed some serious paranoia. I am interested if they explain why Gus walked away from the car. Did he have a hunch? Or perhaps someone who tailed behind him and watched the car when he was in the hospital. Gus could have been mocking and challenging Walter by walking to that parking level, knowing there was a bomb, just like he stood in front of the cartel's sniper. Gus learned that the kid had been poisoned, something he didn't know up to that point. Jesse told him in a bit of a *wink wink i know what you did motherfucker* way. Gus however was suprised that the child had been poisoned. As he walks back to his car he realises that it's all coming together too much. He knows he and Walt are gunning for each other and suddenly he has to go out of his way, out from his safehouse, to go to a hospital. He realises that Walter poisoned the child (since he knows he didn't do it) and did it so that Jesse would stick around at the hospital and Gus would be forced to meet him there. Walter went so far as to poison a child just to lure Gus to the hospital so Gus knows that Walter has to be planning something. He realises all this just before he steps into his car and decides to alter up his routine so he can avoid whatever Walt has planned. A car bomb isn't hard to make for someone like Walt. The fact that Gus avoided the bomb supports that Walt poisoned the child. If Gus had poisoned the child then he would have known that all along and when Jesse told him that it wouldn't affect him in any way, there would be no reason to change up his routine because then he would have ended up at the hospital as a result of his own actions. But because Walt poisoned the child he realises he has been forced to the hospital by Walters actions. If Gus poisoned the child then the only reason he avoided the car bomb would be because he is a prophet whom receives visions. This last bit is not exactly true. If Gus did poison the kid, he still has reason to alter his behavior because Jesse has revealed his knowledge of the poisoning. Still, either Walt or Gus poisoning the kid in an attempt to manipulate Jesse in order to provoke such specific reactions from each other seems too much to me.
If Gus had poisoned the child then his entire goal would be that Jesse discovered it, just like if Walt poisoned the child then he too would want Jesse to learn of this.
If Jesse does not know that there was foul play then he has no reason to react against anyone, it would just make him occupied with something else.
If Gus poisoned the child and he learned that Jesse knew the child was poisoned then he would think "all according to plan". Everything would be going as he wanted and he would have gone to the hospital on his own accord.
The whole thing that makes Gus edgy is the fact that he realises he has been lured to the hospital by Walts actions. Walt has forced him towards the hospital and if someone wants to kill you and is luring you to a specific location then it's likely that that is the place where they are going to strike.
When Gus realised all that, it was just a matter of playing it smart by changing his routine, avoiding the logical paths where it was most likely that Walt would strike, like his car.
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However, that still doesn't answer the question of the missing cig. poison. I find it very unlikely that Walter somehow could have retrieved the cig, while it would have been much much easier for Gus to steal it. Walter was held up in his house the whole time, and I find any Saul theory unconvincing. Walter also doesn't have the expertise in infiltration that gus' men would have. Walter has no method of delivering the poison.
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On October 04 2011 12:34 phyren wrote:http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/ricin/facts.aspSo, I might be remembering this incorrectly, but they described the kids symptoms as "like a cold." I guess that might be compatible with inhalation, but really none of these quite fit. I don't think Walt killing him makes any sense. Gus doing it might make some sense, but then he would be going out of his way to get the ricin, which he may or may not even know about. The kid just randomaly getting seriously sick is too coincidental. I'm thinking it turns out not to be ricin at all, and then hopefully a more legit storyline can be made.
"like the flu" was actually what she said.
It's too coincidental for Jesse's cig to go missing and the boy getting sick for the plot to make any sense if he just randomly got sick. You're just over thinking it, obviously someone poisoned him.
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On October 05 2011 10:50 Basileus wrote:
However, that still doesn't answer the question of the missing cig. poison. I find it very unlikely that Walter somehow could have retrieved the cig, while it would have been much much easier for Gus to steal it. Walter was held up in his house the whole time, and I find any Saul theory unconvincing. Walter also doesn't have the expertise in infiltration that gus' men would have. Walter has no method of delivering the poison.
Walter was missing for large parts of the episode. Remember how people tried to keep calling him and nobody picked up the phone?
Huelle could have taken it off Jesse simple as that. Wether it's likely doesn't really matter. It's possible and the audience would accept it, thus it can be the official storyline without any problem.
As for poisoning a child, you don't exactly need to be a mastermind to do that. For all we know Walter gave the kid some poisoned candy and kids being kids, he ate it.
Walt did have plenty of opportunity to deliver the poison, he was missing for a large part of the episode.
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On October 05 2011 04:34 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 04:18 phyren wrote:On October 04 2011 22:38 zalz wrote:On October 04 2011 16:09 Basileus wrote:
I think when he was spinning the gun he was trying to decide whether to kill himself or not. I love this show!!! I think either Gus poisoned the kid or he is sick in some other way. Killing an innocent kid is too far for Walter IMO. Either Gus could be a genius for developing such an complex scheme or Walter has developed some serious paranoia. I am interested if they explain why Gus walked away from the car. Did he have a hunch? Or perhaps someone who tailed behind him and watched the car when he was in the hospital. Gus could have been mocking and challenging Walter by walking to that parking level, knowing there was a bomb, just like he stood in front of the cartel's sniper. Gus learned that the kid had been poisoned, something he didn't know up to that point. Jesse told him in a bit of a *wink wink i know what you did motherfucker* way. Gus however was suprised that the child had been poisoned. As he walks back to his car he realises that it's all coming together too much. He knows he and Walt are gunning for each other and suddenly he has to go out of his way, out from his safehouse, to go to a hospital. He realises that Walter poisoned the child (since he knows he didn't do it) and did it so that Jesse would stick around at the hospital and Gus would be forced to meet him there. Walter went so far as to poison a child just to lure Gus to the hospital so Gus knows that Walter has to be planning something. He realises all this just before he steps into his car and decides to alter up his routine so he can avoid whatever Walt has planned. A car bomb isn't hard to make for someone like Walt. The fact that Gus avoided the bomb supports that Walt poisoned the child. If Gus had poisoned the child then he would have known that all along and when Jesse told him that it wouldn't affect him in any way, there would be no reason to change up his routine because then he would have ended up at the hospital as a result of his own actions. But because Walt poisoned the child he realises he has been forced to the hospital by Walters actions. If Gus poisoned the child then the only reason he avoided the car bomb would be because he is a prophet whom receives visions. This last bit is not exactly true. If Gus did poison the kid, he still has reason to alter his behavior because Jesse has revealed his knowledge of the poisoning. Still, either Walt or Gus poisoning the kid in an attempt to manipulate Jesse in order to provoke such specific reactions from each other seems too much to me. If Gus had poisoned the child then his entire goal would be that Jesse discovered it, just like if Walt poisoned the child then he too would want Jesse to learn of this. If Jesse does not know that there was foul play then he has no reason to react against anyone, it would just make him occupied with something else. If Gus poisoned the child and he learned that Jesse knew the child was poisoned then he would think "all according to plan". Everything would be going as he wanted and he would have gone to the hospital on his own accord. The whole thing that makes Gus edgy is the fact that he realises he has been lured to the hospital by Walts actions. Walt has forced him towards the hospital and if someone wants to kill you and is luring you to a specific location then it's likely that that is the place where they are going to strike. When Gus realised all that, it was just a matter of playing it smart by changing his routine, avoiding the logical paths where it was most likely that Walt would strike, like his car.
The plan was to turn Jesse against Walt, so it did not all go according to plan... Jesse did not seem to show any anger and did not mention Walt at all (although maybe he wouldn't have mentioned it anyway since the poison was meant to be used against Gus, still Jesse's attitude would've been different). That's a reason for Gus to be suspicious as well.
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On October 05 2011 16:00 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 10:50 Basileus wrote:
However, that still doesn't answer the question of the missing cig. poison. I find it very unlikely that Walter somehow could have retrieved the cig, while it would have been much much easier for Gus to steal it. Walter was held up in his house the whole time, and I find any Saul theory unconvincing. Walter also doesn't have the expertise in infiltration that gus' men would have. Walter has no method of delivering the poison. Walter was missing for large parts of the episode. Remember how people tried to keep calling him and nobody picked up the phone? Huelle could have taken it off Jesse simple as that. Wether it's likely doesn't really matter. It's possible and the audience would accept it, thus it can be the official storyline without any problem. As for poisoning a child, you don't exactly need to be a mastermind to do that. For all we know Walter gave the kid some poisoned candy and kids being kids, he ate it. Walt did have plenty of opportunity to deliver the poison, he was missing for a large part of the episode.
I agree with all of this, however I think Walk probably used something non-lethal. Walk is a master manipulator so I doubt he would stoop to killing a child when he can just make it appear like the kid is dying.
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I never considered that gus didn't poison the kid. I definitely think he did.
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On October 05 2011 16:38 travis wrote:
I never considered that gus didn't poison the kid. I definitely think he did.
Seconded. Though it would be a nice twist if Walt did it. It would put it past him considering how crazy he's become as of late.
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I'm usually one to dismiss the frame by frame analyzing, especially in the case of Mike aiming the gun at Jesse, but in this episode I think zalz nails it. I didn't understand the significance at what he was looking at when the gun finally spun away from him but that plant says it all! I knew there was something he was noticing or at least there was some significance as to why he looked that direction for a little while and now it makes complete sense. Whoever made that connection on whatever forum, kudos to them. I think Walt definitely got the idea to poison the child in that one scene when he was looking at the plant and hatched the plan to poison the child with a non-fatal dose of something. I would be doubtful of this theory as well if not for that .gif of Huelle putting something in his pocket and the whole frisking scene existing in the first place. The frisking scene seemed a bit out of place and that makes me think the frisking definitely served a purpose, and that was to swap the pack of cigs.
Just listening to Walt explain it to Jesse how brilliant Gus had been to manipulate him was really just a master manipulation by Walt. Gus was definitely genuinely surprised to learn of the poisoning and that's when he realized he had ultimately been manipulated by Walt and hence altered his routine. I don't think Gus ever was aware of the plot by Jesse and Walt to kill him with the poison cigarette like Walt suggested, I just think that was further manipulation by Walt to make Jesse think he was being manipulated by Gus. Fucking genius writing.
This could all be wrong, of course, but it would be mighty coincidental with that poisonous plant and how Huele definitely seems to be putting something in his jacket pocket.
EDIT: I had skimmed the last few pages before posting but missed this, which actually seems quite plausible, although I don't know how Saul would have known about the Ricin cigarette. Would have had to be Walt who got Saul to go along with the plan. Maybe Walt convinced Saul to do it for his own safety, though. Saul is pretty damn crafty so who knows.
On October 04 2011 13:01 J.E.G. wrote:
Saul is scared of Gus killing him for helping w/ mr. white. Saul gets huel to pull switcharoo on jesse's cigs, poisons kid. Saul bets on jesse blaming gus and that jesse+mr. white team up on gus ftw
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I find it funny when people say "Gus was clearly surprised" or "you can clearly see his reaction" when, to me, that guy is just a rock in that scene. He's dead cold.
XD
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Walt could never have poisened the kid, just like he explains to Jesse. To me it sounds like it's the
"appropriate response" from gus (to poison the kid) to set Jesse up against Walt. And have him killed by the one guy who is stopping Gus from killing him. Tbh its more straight forward then it looks, Walt didnt poison the kid.
And also, I'm not sure if Gus realises any threat in the parkinglot scene. I think he's just returning to Jesse for some reason.
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On October 05 2011 20:23 Tschis wrote:
I find it funny when people say "Gus was clearly surprised" or "you can clearly see his reaction" when, to me, that guy is just a rock in that scene. He's dead cold.
XD
He's such a good actor and he's always a rock, but I just got that feeling that he was genuinely suprised to learn that the kid was poisoned. We'll see. If you watch the behind the scenes on that episode the actors pretty much tell you that Gus didn't poison the child.
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For me, both theories have big holes. For the Walt poisoning kid theory, I don't believe that sauls bodyguard could be subtle enough to take the cigarette or replace a packet (With the exact same packet) without Jesse noticing. And as for the Gus poisoning the kid theory, I don't believe that Gus could have been alerted to the fact Jesse had the poison in the first place.
Both have big holes in IMO.
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If you are going to build a theory on the Inside Episode 412 video about Gus, you also have to take into account what Cranston says 'in character' about what Walt knows. At 2:15 he says something similar to in the episode "They send Jesse, which is brilliant, because I knew they'd send someone to kill me." This to me implies that Walt doesn't expect Jesse to come by, or even to have contact with him. Also, the maniacal laughing with a gun to your head doesn't seem like a premeditated reaction to try to convince someone you are not guilty. That seems totally in the moment, as if Walt is indeed just figuring it all out.
If you are going to form a theory based on one part of the clip, you can't just ignore the rest of it. Or you have to come up with something that includes both.
My thought: Someone is pitting Gus and Walt against each other. Jesse? Mike? Hector? Saul?
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Walt is pretty fantastic at bullshitting. I wouldn't be surprised if he has also gone to extreme lengths to manipulate Jesse. Jesse is his only tool at fighting Gus. Nobody is pitting Gus and Walt against each other, they are already at war since Gus threatened to kill his entire family.
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EPT
