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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
Alright, so let's think about some logical scientific mechanisms of zombie bites. Since I have a science degree, maybe it can actually be put to good use here.
I'm calling it the zombie virus (or Z-virus for short).
Facts
1. We know that it's likely something in zombie saliva that has to do with the infections and fatalities. Saliva contains a variety of substances including enzymes, glycoproteins, and other compounds aside from water and general eletrolytes.
2. Enzymes can act as catalysts which can become more efficient in the presence of different materials or different temperatures. Many of the B vitamins are catalysts for reactions that occur in every cell in the body such as cobalamin (Vitamin B12).
3. Let's assume that the Z-virus DNA infects host cells and modifies them which is not that uncommon. Many viruses infect host cells, take over their machinery, and use it to manufacture copies of the virus. Most virulent viruses target the immune system itself, much like HIV, which suppress the immune system and allow the virus to spread more rapidly.
4. The Z-virus is normally dormant in humans, but is effectively catalyzed into action by a bite.
Conclusions -- based on scientific underpinnings 
1. We know that the body uses a lot of enzymes to catalyze reactions, so let's say that our "Z-virus" actually produces enzymes that help it reproduce faster, which are secreted in salivary glands. This would be a good evolutionary adaptation as it would allow the virus to become more efficient in spreading from a bite.
2. The Z-virus and/or the enzymes that are produced above upon reaction to say oxygen or a cooler temperature outside of the body, increases the virulence of the virus. This could be one explanation on why bites themselves rapidly suppress the immune system of the person with the bite.
3. Glycoproteins perform a lot of various functions in the body including signaling. Thyroid stimulating hormone IIRC is a glycoprotein which affects output production of the thyroid which controls metabolic rates within the body. So, if the Z-virus has the salivary glands output a specialized glycoprotein that greatly speeds up metabolic rates within the body, that can be an explanation of why the virus propagates so fast.
Additionally, luteinizing hormone is a glycoprotein which stimulates production of testosterone in males. Steroids suppress inflammation, and make the zombies stronger! Suppression of inflammation is important because...
4. Along with steroids, other glycoproteins can suppress inflammation and/or leukocyte activity which allows the virus to spread rapidly from the bite site to all systems within the body.
Therefore...
1. If the Z-virus resides in the immune system as well as many other different types of cells in the body and hides out much like HIV and/or herpes zoster (chicken pox, shingles) then it's conceivable that it may stay dormant until activated by a stressor (aka a bite).
Once a subject is bitten, the enzymes, glycoproteins, etc. suppress the host nervous system and greatly speed up the production of the Z-virus overwhelming the host and causing them to die.
Once a subject is dead, the Z-virus reanimates the nervous system function, and produces salivary enzymes and glycoproteins.
And repeat.... when the now zombie bites a person suppress the host immune system and catalyze very rapid virus production through the various methods listed above and we have yet another victim.
2. If someone dies without a bite, once the host's immune system ceases to function the virus starts replicating itself and reanimates the nervous system function, and produces salivary enzymes and glycoproteins. Then the zombie goes and bites someone and repeat.
Notes
I will admit... turning in a couple of hours is a bit far fetched but if a virus had all of the factors above it may be borderline conceivable...
Logically all of the above facts/conclusions are true from a scientific standpoint. But having all of them in one virus is definitely not very realistic. But hey, this is good fiction, haha.
Anyway, I stayed up too late to type this so hopefully it was worth it to some of you :p
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wanna know why they turn into zombies when they get bit?
+ Show Spoiler +cause its a fictional tv show.
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On October 27 2012 11:25 Blisse wrote:
If you don't care whether there's consistency in the series over how zombies reproduce, then so be it. Then you should also shut up if Rick turns into a zombie next episode, because the director wanted that to happen. Or if all zombies could fly from now on, that should be okay with you. I see nothing wrong with discussing the points of zombification. I do see something wrong when people try to stifle discussion by posting essentially, "your opinions are irrelevant." I'd rather be curious about why the director and producer chose this decision about the zombies than be complacent about everything they do, like you few are.
If a producer wants his work of zombies to be taken seriously, he needs a consistent basis upon which he projects his own views onto. In simpler terms, it means that he can take the zombies from the Walking Dead comic series and put his own spin on the zombies. For example, that the zombies in Season 1 could run, climb over fences, and use rocks to smash the windows. That was accepted because it was his take on the zombies. However, you'll notice that onwards from Season 1, all of those ideas were scrapped completely. I haven't seen a "smart" zombie since, and that inconsistency really annoys the more hardcore zombie people, but most of us have accepted that they just messed up big time in the first season. All of this is a result of questioning the decisions of the director and producer.
When something happens in a show or in real life, you should wonder, why? Why is the sky blue? Why do people turn into zombies when they're bit? If they're bit one way, they die, but if they're bit another way, they live. What does that mean? I find that enjoyable, and some others enjoy discussing it too, so stop shitting on people's discussions.
See, you didn't read what I said.
If they kill off Rick (ZOMBIE RICK RAAAAAAAWRRRRRR) and people criticized it, thats fine, BECAUSE IT IS THE WRITING. When people question things that still have no canon basis (as someone was kind enough to mention), that just makes no sense. There have been few, if ANY movie/comic/tv show about zombies that actually explain the physics behind zombies and how they transfer the infection or disease. You know why? Because it doesn't matter. They want to explore the realm on how people survive and react in a world crowded with once-humans that want to eat you, as well as the psyche behind people dealing with other people.
If they wanted to explore the actual world of zombies, they would explain it more. They would make things up like the Resident Evil universe did with the T-virus and such. But because that isn't the focus of the series, they aren't going to go into detail.
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That still doesn't explain how person can still die and turn to a zombie with just a scratch from zombies.
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No one has turned after being scratched yet, as far as the viewers or readers know. Tomas had to bash Big Tiny's head in before we got to find out. 
Rick and Shane assumed that the unbitten zombies we saw towards the end of season 2 were scratched, but that's as much as we know. Maybe their scratches had nothing to do with turning, perhaps they just starved to death.
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On October 27 2012 14:30 LoLAdriankat wrote:No one has turned after being scratched yet, as far as the viewers or readers know. Tomas had to bash Big Tiny's head in before we got to find out. Rick and Shane assumed that the unbitten zombies we saw towards the end of season 2 were scratched, but that's as much as we know. Maybe their scratches had nothing to do with turning, perhaps they just starved to death.
True. Or they had immunocompromised systems already like with AIDS and just turned after they got infected.
Fact is we don't know if scratch is enough or not so I guess we have to assume it's not until otherwise stated.
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Yeah I'm assuming it is I mean they are ripping people open with those hands so I'm sure the scratches are just as bad..
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On October 27 2012 12:15 Ozcollo wrote:
This is a quote from Kirkman;
"The rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die, you turn into a zombie, UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die, you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss, not because of the zombie "virus.""
From what I remember from the comics, the bites are always fatal. The only exception to this rule is what you saw in this last episode (amputation).
Thank you for posting this, good to have some actual data from the creator. So we can say that there is nothing special about the zombie bites (unlike in standard zombie lore where the virus is communicated via bite, and it kills and reanimates you). Bites don't activate the Z-virus with enzymes or necessarily contain loads of deadly bacteria.
It does stand to reason that zombies' mouths are pretty nasty, and in the absence of modern medicine a bite becomes a very serious problem -- but we know that zombie bites cannot be categorically fatal.
To the "it's a TV show" crowd: enjoy your TV show, and let me enjoy my analysis.
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On October 27 2012 17:47 Hashbaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 12:15 Ozcollo wrote:
This is a quote from Kirkman;
"The rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die, you turn into a zombie, UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die, you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss, not because of the zombie "virus.""
From what I remember from the comics, the bites are always fatal. The only exception to this rule is what you saw in this last episode (amputation). Thank you for posting this, good to have some actual data from the creator. So we can say that there is nothing special about the zombie bites (unlike in standard zombie lore where the virus is communicated via bite, and it kills and reanimates you). Bites don't activate the Z-virus with enzymes or necessarily contain loads of deadly bacteria. It does stand to reason that zombies' mouths are pretty nasty, and in the absence of modern medicine a bite becomes a very serious problem -- but we know that zombie bites cannot be categorically fatal. To the "it's a TV show" crowd: enjoy your TV show, and let me enjoy my analysis.
Damnit, typed that up for nothing...
I guess, generally, blood less and shock along with whatever is nasty in the mouth of the zombie whether it's bacterial, viral, and/or fungal just typically overwhelm the host's immune system so that they die 100% of the time and come back if it's not brain damage related.
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I think it's just an accepted rule that exchanging fluids with the undead will turn a human into that undead. It's not even an idea exclusive to zombies. Werewolves and vampires use this very mechanism to explain how humans can be turned.
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On October 27 2012 22:27 buickskylark wrote:
I think it's just an accepted rule that exchanging fluids with the undead will turn a human into that undead. It's not even an idea exclusive to zombies. Werewolves and vampires use this very mechanism to explain how humans can be turned.
Yeah but no one is ever concerned about all the zombie blood splatter they're exposed to on a daily basis..
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On October 27 2012 22:45 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 22:27 buickskylark wrote:
I think it's just an accepted rule that exchanging fluids with the undead will turn a human into that undead. It's not even an idea exclusive to zombies. Werewolves and vampires use this very mechanism to explain how humans can be turned. Yeah but no one is ever concerned about all the zombie blood splatter they're exposed to on a daily basis..
why would they? it's not the same as getting bitten. if i remember correctly, early in season 1 they smeared themselves with zombie blood and guts to disguise their scent.
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On October 27 2012 22:13 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 17:47 Hashbaz wrote:On October 27 2012 12:15 Ozcollo wrote:
This is a quote from Kirkman;
"The rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die, you turn into a zombie, UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die, you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss, not because of the zombie "virus.""
From what I remember from the comics, the bites are always fatal. The only exception to this rule is what you saw in this last episode (amputation). Thank you for posting this, good to have some actual data from the creator. So we can say that there is nothing special about the zombie bites (unlike in standard zombie lore where the virus is communicated via bite, and it kills and reanimates you). Bites don't activate the Z-virus with enzymes or necessarily contain loads of deadly bacteria. It does stand to reason that zombies' mouths are pretty nasty, and in the absence of modern medicine a bite becomes a very serious problem -- but we know that zombie bites cannot be categorically fatal. To the "it's a TV show" crowd: enjoy your TV show, and let me enjoy my analysis. Damnit, typed that up for nothing... I guess, generally, blood less and shock along with whatever is nasty in the mouth of the zombie whether it's bacterial, viral, and/or fungal just typically overwhelm the host's immune system so that they die 100% of the time and come back if it's not brain damage related.
You didn't type that up for nothing. I enjoyed reading every word of it.
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why do they never cast someone who can actually handle a sword....or give them at least a little bit of training. she would have bend or broken that thing in less than a day........
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On October 28 2012 00:05 Snotling wrote:
why do they never cast someone who can actually handle a sword....or give them at least a little bit of training. she would have bend or broken that thing in less than a day........
what do u mean? seemed fine to me.. sounds like u take fencing or somethin, a normal person wouldn't notice that
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On October 28 2012 00:27 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 00:05 Snotling wrote:
why do they never cast someone who can actually handle a sword....or give them at least a little bit of training. she would have bend or broken that thing in less than a day........ what do u mean? seemed fine to me.. sounds like u take fencing or somethin, a normal person wouldn't notice that
Hahahaha if by normal you mean a person that hasn't used a sword in any capacity XD. I was thinking that those kids with replica LOTR swords would be very disappointed with their performance as weapons. Bludgeons and cudgels seem to be the Occam's Razor solution for zombie defense. A cricket bat perhaps?
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On October 28 2012 00:55 ThomasjServo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 00:27 Assault_1 wrote:On October 28 2012 00:05 Snotling wrote:
why do they never cast someone who can actually handle a sword....or give them at least a little bit of training. she would have bend or broken that thing in less than a day........ what do u mean? seemed fine to me.. sounds like u take fencing or somethin, a normal person wouldn't notice that Hahahaha if by normal you mean a person that hasn't used a sword in any capacity XD. I was thinking that those kids with replica LOTR swords would be very disappointed with their performance as weapons. Bludgeons and cudgels seem to be the Occam's Razor solution for zombie defense. A cricket bat perhaps?
A mace,, fuck yeah.. Must work well when smashing soft zombie skulls.. Gonna have to find me an rpg with maces now,, i wanna mace..
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true, swords just dont cut that easy through bones. beheading one person who is tied to a block is hard enough, two in one strike wont work 999 out of 1000 times. +swords (european or asian) need a lot of maintnence and care.
clubs are better...wooden baseball bats shoud work fine, or all the medieval stuff you can get i some stores. trench knives would work great, or ice axes. everything that can smash through a skull and needs little care. dont try to stab through the eye, way to easy to miss.
my personal favorite as a geologist: http://www.amazon.com/Estwing-E3-23LP-Handle-Picks-Pointed/dp/B000E7RGDI/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header. it well even keep you from hurting your wrist in extended use :D
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On October 28 2012 01:34 Snotling wrote:true, swords just dont cut that easy through bones. beheading one person who is tied to a block is hard enough, two in one strike wont work 999 out of 1000 times. +swords (european or asian) need a lot of maintnence and care. clubs are better...wooden baseball bats shoud work fine, or all the medieval stuff you can get i some stores. trench knives would work great, or ice axes. everything that can smash through a skull and needs little care. dont try to stab through the eye, way to easy to miss. my personal favorite as a geologist: http://www.amazon.com/Estwing-E3-23LP-Handle-Picks-Pointed/dp/B000E7RGDI/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header. it well even keep you from hurting your wrist in extended use :D
Not to mention you can hide it in your Bible from the warden while you dig a tunnel and embezzle money for your retirement in Zihuatanejo, Mexico.
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Anything like an ice pick is bad in my opinion, even if you get it in the skull in one swing (going to be hard your first few times in a stressful situation against a moving target), it's likely the body falling or jerking around will yank it out of your hand before you can pull it free of the bone, and then you have to fall back to your other weapons.
Clubs are better, but you need a lot of main strength to actually shatter a skull in a single blow. Of course, you can just knock them down and then follow up when they're on the ground, but it's less effective against a crowd. Plus, wooden ones (or ones with wooden handles) would break pretty quickly.
That's one thing that tingles my "suspension of disbelief". Aside from Daryl, no one ever seems to take care of their weapons, and it seems like every kitchen knife they find can bust through bone dozens of times in one day with the slightest amount of pressure from the weakest members of the group. Hell, I'm not sure I'd be able to crack a skull with a hatchet like Rick's, hit the right spot, pull out the blade, and then repeat ~15 more times an a ten minute period. And I consider myself in decent shape, Glenn, Maggie, and some of the others didn't look all too muscular for most of the show.
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EPT
