|
Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. |
United States13896 Posts
On October 24 2012 13:47 Aldehyde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 00:33 CrimsonLotus wrote:On October 23 2012 22:58 Scorch wrote:I read volumes 1 & 2 (issues 1-12) of the comic yesterday, which cover about the first two seasons of the TV show. + Show Spoiler +I was surprised to see how different it is. The show has everything fleshed out in much more detail, features a couple different characters, handles Shane very differently, spends much more time on Hershel's farm etc. I don't want to continue reading now lest I spoil myself. Are the comics all about Rick's group or are there any completely independent storylines I could read without spoiling the show? The comics are all about Rick and his group. And to be honest, I feel you should keep reading. The show is good for the zombie action, but the story, plot and characters are quite simply better in the comics so far. I don't know if I agree, really. I haven't read that far yet but it's not that good so far. It felt very rushed at the start, some things that I felt should have taken longer went by in two pages. The dialogue isn't very well written, I feel, either.
How far are you exactly? And do you read comics frequently?
|
Love the show. It did though take me a while to get over the accents of the actors though, lol. Fake southern drawls are pretty obvious.
|
I get what he means though. Issues 1-6 introduces plotlines and then ends them rather quickly.
Examples from Issues 1-6
+ Show Spoiler +Rick wakes up from coma and has no idea what's going on. -> Morgan and Duane bring Rick up to speed, Rick gives them guns, Rick leaves.
Rick wants to find his family then starts to believe they are dead -> They're not actually dead.
Shane is in love with Rick's wife -> Shane goes insane and gets shot
It's almost as if Kirkman didn't plan for the series to have 100+ issues, opting for a more short story oriented format.
TWD picks up on volume 2 and gets really good after volume 3. I'm caught up to issue 103 and I can't wait until the next issue.
|
am I the only 1 that likes the TV-show more then the comic? Outside of michonne, all the characters in the TV-Show seem cooler and better written.
|
On October 24 2012 14:32 czylu wrote:
am I the only 1 that likes the TV-show more then the comic? Outside of michonne, all the characters in the TV-Show seem cooler and better written.
That's a good mentality. Now leave this thread from Sunday to Tuesday before you read enough hate that you start to hate the television series more. ^^
+ Show Spoiler +Apparently the comic series is intended to go up to the 300s. Oh boy. :D
|
On October 24 2012 14:32 czylu wrote:
am I the only 1 that likes the TV-show more then the comic? Outside of michonne, all the characters in the TV-Show seem cooler and better written.
Me too. The TV show advances the plot much slower, which gives you more time to get to know and relate to the characters. I don't know about cooler or better written, but certainly more fleshed out. I could do without the overabundance of drama and stupid women in the TV show though.
|
On October 24 2012 21:34 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 14:32 czylu wrote:
am I the only 1 that likes the TV-show more then the comic? Outside of michonne, all the characters in the TV-Show seem cooler and better written. Me too. The TV show advances the plot much slower, which gives you more time to get to know and relate to the characters. I don't know about cooler or better written, but certainly more fleshed out. I could do without the overabundance of drama and stupid women in the TV show though.
Yea totally, the writers for this show are amazing, they are really good at getting you to know the characters and care about them.
Now, write me an essay on the character development and the reason for T-dogs existence, I'll give you 5 years because you won't make it past an introduction
|
T-Dog's existence is being the token black guy in the group. There! Gotta have the black guy since there's an asian guy 
|
On October 24 2012 21:53 Lyter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 21:34 Scorch wrote:On October 24 2012 14:32 czylu wrote:
am I the only 1 that likes the TV-show more then the comic? Outside of michonne, all the characters in the TV-Show seem cooler and better written. Me too. The TV show advances the plot much slower, which gives you more time to get to know and relate to the characters. I don't know about cooler or better written, but certainly more fleshed out. I could do without the overabundance of drama and stupid women in the TV show though. Yea totally, the writers for this show are amazing, they are really good at getting you to know the characters and care about them. Now, write me an essay on the character development and the reason for T-dogs existence, I'll give you 5 years because you won't make it past an introduction
Cool down a bit, no need to be so angry. T-Dog sucks, I'll give you that, but I'm perfectly ok with Shane, Glenn, Hershel and Daryl in the TV show.
|
On October 24 2012 13:57 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 13:47 Aldehyde wrote:On October 24 2012 00:33 CrimsonLotus wrote:On October 23 2012 22:58 Scorch wrote:I read volumes 1 & 2 (issues 1-12) of the comic yesterday, which cover about the first two seasons of the TV show. + Show Spoiler +I was surprised to see how different it is. The show has everything fleshed out in much more detail, features a couple different characters, handles Shane very differently, spends much more time on Hershel's farm etc. I don't want to continue reading now lest I spoil myself. Are the comics all about Rick's group or are there any completely independent storylines I could read without spoiling the show? The comics are all about Rick and his group. And to be honest, I feel you should keep reading. The show is good for the zombie action, but the story, plot and characters are quite simply better in the comics so far. I don't know if I agree, really. I haven't read that far yet but it's not that good so far. It felt very rushed at the start, some things that I felt should have taken longer went by in two pages. The dialogue isn't very well written, I feel, either. How far are you exactly? And do you read comics frequently?
Not frequently, no. I've read the Sandman series by Neil Gaiman and some of the Transmetropolitan series by whomever.
I am at #18 right now.
-Edit- The way the dialogue is written just feels so... I don't know. It reminds me of how I played PnP RPGs back in the day. We said what we needed and nothing more, not really conversational language, just to the point.
It's like Kirkman has this thing that he wants to tell the reader and gets the characters to say it. I don't feel like I am looking into these characters' world but that they exist for me. I don't like that. I want to feel like eavesdropping or whatever, not being catered to.
-Edit#2- Gotta say that at least the dialogue got a lot better around #15.
|
On October 23 2012 15:27 Cloud9157 wrote:
10 bucks we see our old pal Merle next week. Was definitely him watching Carol in the woods.
Well yeah.. seeing as how he was in the preview for next weeks episode xD
|
United States13896 Posts
On October 24 2012 22:18 Aldehyde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 13:57 p4NDemik wrote:On October 24 2012 13:47 Aldehyde wrote:On October 24 2012 00:33 CrimsonLotus wrote:On October 23 2012 22:58 Scorch wrote:I read volumes 1 & 2 (issues 1-12) of the comic yesterday, which cover about the first two seasons of the TV show. + Show Spoiler +I was surprised to see how different it is. The show has everything fleshed out in much more detail, features a couple different characters, handles Shane very differently, spends much more time on Hershel's farm etc. I don't want to continue reading now lest I spoil myself. Are the comics all about Rick's group or are there any completely independent storylines I could read without spoiling the show? The comics are all about Rick and his group. And to be honest, I feel you should keep reading. The show is good for the zombie action, but the story, plot and characters are quite simply better in the comics so far. I don't know if I agree, really. I haven't read that far yet but it's not that good so far. It felt very rushed at the start, some things that I felt should have taken longer went by in two pages. The dialogue isn't very well written, I feel, either. How far are you exactly? And do you read comics frequently? Not frequently, no. I've read the Sandman series by Neil Gaiman and some of the Transmetropolitan series by whomever. I am at #18 right now. -Edit- The way the dialogue is written just feels so... I don't know. It reminds me of how I played PnP RPGs back in the day. We said what we needed and nothing more, not really conversational language, just to the point. It's like Kirkman has this thing that he wants to tell the reader and gets the characters to say it. I don't feel like I am looking into these characters' world but that they exist for me. I don't like that. I want to feel like eavesdropping or whatever, not being catered to. -Edit#2- Gotta say that at least the dialogue got a lot better around #15.
I have to say that I agree on you for the most part on dialogue. Kirkman wasn't and up until the farthest point I've read isn't the best at writing dialogue, but he hits his stride so to say in the prison arc, and from there he introduces more characters that are far more deceptive with how they present themselves to others. Michonne is particularly great because she is damaged like everyone else, but her method of coping is so different. Basically Kirkman isn't ever going to give you sustained, Tarantino-like dialogue because simply its tough to do that effectively in the medium without bringing the plot to a grinding hault, and he simply isn't that skilled. He does have some great moments though, and as far as constructing really interesting story arcs he is very adept, which is the most important aspect imo.
What I was also going to say concerning the early issues is that yes those can be more hollow compared to latter issues as far as dialogue goes, but the art in the first chapter is gorgeous. Tony Moore's style is imo much more pleasing, more detailed, compared to Charlie Adlard's style later on. I gained a lot more in later read-throughs by slowing down and taking in more of the art. It's a shame that Moore had issues hitting deadlines, but understandable considering the extra level of detail he put into his work.
On October 24 2012 14:28 LoLAdriankat wrote:I get what he means though. Issues 1-6 introduces plotlines and then ends them rather quickly. Examples from Issues 1-6 + Show Spoiler +Rick wakes up from coma and has no idea what's going on. -> Morgan and Duane bring Rick up to speed, Rick gives them guns, Rick leaves.
Rick wants to find his family then starts to believe they are dead -> They're not actually dead.
Shane is in love with Rick's wife -> Shane goes insane and gets shot It's almost as if Kirkman didn't plan for the series to have 100+ issues, opting for a more short story oriented format. TWD picks up on volume 2 and gets really good after volume 3. I'm caught up to issue 103 and I can't wait until the next issue.
That's exactly it. The success was completely unexpected for Kirkman, and the nature of the comic book business is one that most comics don't make it past the initial arc. By issue 10 or so publishers see the numbers and drop the series that don't do well, so Kirkman had to go for that initial short story even though he had a pretty good idea of where he wanted to go after they left the campsite. Gotta get people hooked first, create a reader-base, get the publisher on board with taking the comic farther, and go from there. If Kirkman takes it too slow with the first chapter he probably gets dropped by Image comics, the comic doesn't gain critical acclaim, and there is no TV show. (probably)
|
On October 25 2012 04:15 p4NDemik wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 24 2012 22:18 Aldehyde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 13:57 p4NDemik wrote:On October 24 2012 13:47 Aldehyde wrote:On October 24 2012 00:33 CrimsonLotus wrote:On October 23 2012 22:58 Scorch wrote:I read volumes 1 & 2 (issues 1-12) of the comic yesterday, which cover about the first two seasons of the TV show. + Show Spoiler +I was surprised to see how different it is. The show has everything fleshed out in much more detail, features a couple different characters, handles Shane very differently, spends much more time on Hershel's farm etc. I don't want to continue reading now lest I spoil myself. Are the comics all about Rick's group or are there any completely independent storylines I could read without spoiling the show? The comics are all about Rick and his group. And to be honest, I feel you should keep reading. The show is good for the zombie action, but the story, plot and characters are quite simply better in the comics so far. I don't know if I agree, really. I haven't read that far yet but it's not that good so far. It felt very rushed at the start, some things that I felt should have taken longer went by in two pages. The dialogue isn't very well written, I feel, either. How far are you exactly? And do you read comics frequently? Not frequently, no. I've read the Sandman series by Neil Gaiman and some of the Transmetropolitan series by whomever. I am at #18 right now. -Edit- The way the dialogue is written just feels so... I don't know. It reminds me of how I played PnP RPGs back in the day. We said what we needed and nothing more, not really conversational language, just to the point. It's like Kirkman has this thing that he wants to tell the reader and gets the characters to say it. I don't feel like I am looking into these characters' world but that they exist for me. I don't like that. I want to feel like eavesdropping or whatever, not being catered to. -Edit#2- Gotta say that at least the dialogue got a lot better around #15. I have to say that I agree on you for the most part on dialogue. Kirkman wasn't and up until the farthest point I've read isn't the best at writing dialogue, but he hits his stride so to say in the prison arc, and from there he introduces more characters that are far more deceptive with how they present themselves to others. Michonne is particularly great because she is damaged like everyone else, but her method of coping is so different. Basically Kirkman isn't ever going to give you sustained, Tarantino-like dialogue because simply its tough to do that effectively in the medium without bringing the plot to a grinding hault, and he simply isn't that skilled. He does have some great moments though, and as far as constructing really interesting story arcs he is very adept, which is the most important aspect imo. What I was also going to say concerning the early issues is that yes those can be more hollow compared to latter issues as far as dialogue goes, but the art in the first chapter is gorgeous. Tony Moore's style is imo much more pleasing, more detailed, compared to Charlie Adlard's style later on. I gained a lot more in later read-throughs by slowing down and taking in more of the art. It's a shame that Moore had issues hitting deadlines, but understandable considering the extra level of detail he put into his work. On October 24 2012 14:28 LoLAdriankat wrote:I get what he means though. Issues 1-6 introduces plotlines and then ends them rather quickly. Examples from Issues 1-6 + Show Spoiler +Rick wakes up from coma and has no idea what's going on. -> Morgan and Duane bring Rick up to speed, Rick gives them guns, Rick leaves.
Rick wants to find his family then starts to believe they are dead -> They're not actually dead.
Shane is in love with Rick's wife -> Shane goes insane and gets shot It's almost as if Kirkman didn't plan for the series to have 100+ issues, opting for a more short story oriented format. TWD picks up on volume 2 and gets really good after volume 3. I'm caught up to issue 103 and I can't wait until the next issue. That's exactly it. The success was completely unexpected for Kirkman, and the nature of the comic book business is one that most comics don't make it past the initial arc. By issue 10 or so publishers see the numbers and drop the series that don't do well, so Kirkman had to go for that initial short story even though he had a pretty good idea of where he wanted to go after they left the campsite. Gotta get people hooked first, create a reader-base, get the publisher on board with taking the comic farther, and go from there. If Kirkman takes it too slow with the first chapter he probably gets dropped by Image comics, the comic doesn't gain critical acclaim, and there is no TV show. (probably)
Yeah, I suppose I got spoiled by Neil Gaiman's writing in Sandman. It really is quite exceptional as is most of his works. Transmetropolitan is also awesome.
I don't know but it kind of disappoints me that the Walking Dead comic isn't better than it is after all the hype it has got in this thread. All the whining about how the TV show isn't the comic books and everything is terrible. I just don't see it. They're both average entertainment to me. I love zombies and apocalypses in general so that alone keeps my interest if it's even halfway decent but Walking Dead isn't that special.
So far. I'm at #30 now.
Starting to get a little bit more exciting with the Governor but I'll see how it turns out.
|
Phew, I'm finally caught up with the comics, and the show, and this thread.
Some thoughts.
World War Z is fantastic. The one guy here who hates Brooks so much missed the point entirely.
Like everyone else I'm trying to piece together how the zombies work. The "diseases" explanation of how a bite kills you is not in the comics, or in the show (please correct me if I'm wrong). Is this idea just speculation in this thread, or is there an extra-narrative source for it? (comics letters section, Talking Dead, etc.) I don't buy the zombie saliva interacting with the virus theory. Sure it kinda makes sense, but there's no positive evidence for it in the show.
I'm trying to remember a case where a character in the comic or the show dies from a zombie bite that was not severe enough to be a fatal wound in and of itself. I think Jim from season 1 is the only time we've seen a slow zombie-related death with fever and whatnot. I forget how serious Jim's bite was, though, so maybe he just died from normal complications. Any other cases I'm missing, from the show or the book? (it's been awhile since I read the first compendium)
Doesn't the father and son from the first episode tell Rick that bites are fatal? I remember him describing the fever thing at least. So it seems clear that there is something about zombie bites themselves that cause infection and death, at which point presumably the virus that everyone carries causes reanimation. This squares with Rick's decision to cut off Hershel's leg, and his "there's nothing we can do" attitude toward the big guy and his minor wound. I'm not really feeling convinced by the diseases theory.
What I suspect is that despite the unique "everyone is infected" aspect, the show writers are letting standard zombie lore creep in.
|
Wow, wasn't expecting either the black guy to die so horribly or Rick just bludgeoning the hispanic dude. Overall, I am enjoying this season so far.
|
On October 25 2012 16:21 Hashbaz wrote:
Phew, I'm finally caught up with the comics, and the show, and this thread.
Some thoughts.
World War Z is fantastic. The one guy here who hates Brooks so much missed the point entirely.
Like everyone else I'm trying to piece together how the zombies work. The "diseases" explanation of how a bite kills you is not in the comics, or in the show (please correct me if I'm wrong). Is this idea just speculation in this thread, or is there an extra-narrative source for it? (comics letters section, Talking Dead, etc.) I don't buy the zombie saliva interacting with the virus theory. Sure it kinda makes sense, but there's no positive evidence for it in the show.
I'm trying to remember a case where a character in the comic or the show dies from a zombie bite that was not severe enough to be a fatal wound in and of itself. I think Jim from season 1 is the only time we've seen a slow zombie-related death with fever and whatnot. I forget how serious Jim's bite was, though, so maybe he just died from normal complications. Any other cases I'm missing, from the show or the book? (it's been awhile since I read the first compendium)
Doesn't the father and son from the first episode tell Rick that bites are fatal? I remember him describing the fever thing at least. So it seems clear that there is something about zombie bites themselves that cause infection and death, at which point presumably the virus that everyone carries causes reanimation. This squares with Rick's decision to cut off Hershel's leg, and his "there's nothing we can do" attitude toward the big guy and his minor wound. I'm not really feeling convinced by the diseases theory.
What I suspect is that despite the unique "everyone is infected" aspect, the show writers are letting standard zombie lore creep in.
Well, even if there's no semi-magical mumbo-jumbo about zombie bites being a death sentence, you're still being bitten with a mouth of a rotting corpse. The amount of bacteria and rot that's coating the teeth and other surfaces would be like dragging an open wound through a garbage dump, if not worse. Compound that with blood loss and shock, and you have an injury that would be difficult to clean/cure even with modern medicine, which they don't have. Even outside of the Zombie virus, there's still plenty of vanilla diseases and sicknesses that can kill you by getting into your bloodstream, a lot of them probably live in a zombie's mouth.
+ Show Spoiler [TV/Comic spoilers] +Probably why Hershel's injury (and Rick's and Dale's in the comics) were solved by cutting off the limb. Removing the wound before all that bacteria and disease has a chance to spread to the rest of the body.
|
On October 25 2012 23:03 Requizen wrote:Well, even if there's no semi-magical mumbo-jumbo about zombie bites being a death sentence, you're still being bitten with a mouth of a rotting corpse. The amount of bacteria and rot that's coating the teeth and other surfaces would be like dragging an open wound through a garbage dump, if not worse. Compound that with blood loss and shock, and you have an injury that would be difficult to clean/cure even with modern medicine, which they don't have. Even outside of the Zombie virus, there's still plenty of vanilla diseases and sicknesses that can kill you by getting into your bloodstream, a lot of them probably live in a zombie's mouth. + Show Spoiler [TV/Comic spoilers] +Probably why Hershel's injury (and Rick's and Dale's in the comics) were solved by cutting off the limb. Removing the wound before all that bacteria and disease has a chance to spread to the rest of the body.
You just restated what I was asking about. I'm not buying the diseases argument. There's got to be something else, or the show is internally inconsistent, and possibly also the comic. Is there a case like Jim's in the comic of a non-lethal zombie bite causing death through other than normal means? If so, I can't remember it.
|
On October 26 2012 01:50 Hashbaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 23:03 Requizen wrote:Well, even if there's no semi-magical mumbo-jumbo about zombie bites being a death sentence, you're still being bitten with a mouth of a rotting corpse. The amount of bacteria and rot that's coating the teeth and other surfaces would be like dragging an open wound through a garbage dump, if not worse. Compound that with blood loss and shock, and you have an injury that would be difficult to clean/cure even with modern medicine, which they don't have. Even outside of the Zombie virus, there's still plenty of vanilla diseases and sicknesses that can kill you by getting into your bloodstream, a lot of them probably live in a zombie's mouth. + Show Spoiler [TV/Comic spoilers] +Probably why Hershel's injury (and Rick's and Dale's in the comics) were solved by cutting off the limb. Removing the wound before all that bacteria and disease has a chance to spread to the rest of the body. You just restated what I was asking about. I'm not buying the diseases argument. There's got to be something else, or the show is internally inconsistent, and possibly also the comic. Is there a case like Jim's in the comic of a non-lethal zombie bite causing death through other than normal means? If so, I can't remember it.
wasn't there one in season one. the sister of the blond, who turned zombie in her arms?
|
On October 24 2012 22:04 Pleiades wrote:T-Dog's existence is being the token black guy in the group. There! Gotta have the black guy since there's an asian guy
From the comics:
+ Show Spoiler +T-Dog most likely represents the same black guy from the comics that may end up having some sort of relationship with Michonne. Doesn't seem likely, but don't rule it out. If anyone reading this knows the comics(if you don't I suggest you stop reading this right now) then that means no more T-Dog by the end of this season. =\
On October 25 2012 01:59 LovE- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 15:27 Cloud9157 wrote:
10 bucks we see our old pal Merle next week. Was definitely him watching Carol in the woods. Well yeah.. seeing as how he was in the preview for next weeks episode xD
Was he? I didn't watch it on AMC. Watched it at my friend's place where he downloaded it from somewhere, and we didn't get to see any previews for next week. -.-
Excited then. Favorite character on the show, outside of Daryl.
|
On October 26 2012 02:05 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:50 Hashbaz wrote:
You just restated what I was asking about. I'm not buying the diseases argument. There's got to be something else, or the show is internally inconsistent, and possibly also the comic. Is there a case like Jim's in the comic of a non-lethal zombie bite causing death through other than normal means? If so, I can't remember it.
wasn't there one in season one. the sister of the blond, who turned zombie in her arms?
That was a pretty bad wound, and she died quickly from what I would say are normal causes (blood loss, shock, etc.).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
