EPT[Movie] Inception - Page 18
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Kingsp4de20
United States716 Posts
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On July 20 2010 02:33 Xeris wrote: Here's another weird plot hole I noticed when watching a second time... + Show Spoiler + They go into the "4th level" (I'm assuming this is limbo?) , Mal dies, they save Fischer, and then Cobb stays to "find Saito" since Saito is in limbo (somehow they know Saito died). Is there just one general limbo, or are people's limbos different? How would Saito be in the limbo of Cobb (since they went into Cobb's dream, ended up in his world, etc) ... how was he there?? He wakes up on the shore (AGAIN), suggesting that he went into ANOTHER dream (a 5th level?) , how else would he have gotten from the house with Mal to the shore of a beach where Saito was. Wouldn't he have had to go into Saito's dream to be in his limbo? And when Cobb finds Saito in limbo, why is only Saito old? + Show Spoiler + You have to remember, they were all connected through the same dream machine, so once they fall into the "Limbo" they all share the same limbo. Also the reason as to why Saito is old is because he thinks of the limbo as Reality so he grows old in the limbo, but cobb knew it was a limbo and that's why he never grew old. | ||
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iNdEMAND
130 Posts
On July 20 2010 02:33 Xeris wrote: Here's another weird plot hole I noticed when watching a second time... + Show Spoiler + They go into the "4th level" (I'm assuming this is limbo?) , Mal dies, they save Fischer, and then Cobb stays to "find Saito" since Saito is in limbo (somehow they know Saito died). Is there just one general limbo, or are people's limbos different? How would Saito be in the limbo of Cobb (since they went into Cobb's dream, ended up in his world, etc) ... how was he there?? He wakes up on the shore (AGAIN), suggesting that he went into ANOTHER dream (a 5th level?) , how else would he have gotten from the house with Mal to the shore of a beach where Saito was. Wouldn't he have had to go into Saito's dream to be in his limbo? And when Cobb finds Saito in limbo, why is only Saito old? + Show Spoiler + Limbo is the same becuase they are sharing the same dream just like how Mal and Cobb went into limbo together. They also stated in the movie that limbo would be the place of the previous person who has been there which is why the team said that they would need revert to Cobb if they ever got stuck there because he created it with Mal. Saito dies early than Cobb which is why he is older. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On July 20 2010 05:30 iNdEMAND wrote: + Show Spoiler + Limbo is the same becuase they are sharing the same dream just like how Mal and Cobb went into limbo together. They also stated in the movie that limbo would be the place of the previous person who has been there which is why the team said that they would need revert to Cobb if they ever got stuck there because he created it with Mal. Saito dies early than Cobb which is why he is older. + Show Spoiler + Yeah, that's the reason, I think. Saito dies several minutes before Cobb, which turns into years for Saito in limbo before Cobb dies and shows up on the shore. Great movie, all-in-all. Definitely an awesome idea and plenty of opportunity for expansion. Let's just hope they don't fuck the whole thing up like they did with the Matrix. | ||
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fbs
United Kingdom2476 Posts
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
might go up as the day and week progresses incase you guys miss it: here it is http://www.cinemablend.com/new/An-Illustrated-Guide-To-The-5-Levels-Of-Inception-19643.html the website it actually annoying, so i will spoiler the picture here: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news/19643/_1279559876.jpg) i have some specific questions and i don't really remember the movie well :d 1. if people (cobb, mal, saito, cobb again) kill themselves in LIMBO to get out, where do they go? do they go back to the previous dream? like "Level 4" in the picture? if its bad to go into limbo, why can't you just kill yourself whenever to come back? 2. how did cobb go into limbo to save saito again? did he kill himself? idr. so when he kills himself again in limbo to get out of limbo, where does he go if he's dead in the previous "level?" 3. cobb and mal put themselves in limbo to "stay together?" iirc they did it in purpose? so say they have a companion, who followed them until they died and went to limbo. isn't there two ways to get out of limbo? cobb and mal kill themselves immediately, or wait a few seconds for the companion to react and give them the KICK (wait does a KICK send people out of limbo?) i dont really remember/understand the whole limbo deal can someone help ;d thx | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
On July 20 2010 05:03 ShoCkeyy wrote: + Show Spoiler + You have to remember, they were all connected through the same dream machine, so once they fall into the "Limbo" they all share the same limbo. Also the reason as to why Saito is old is because he thinks of the limbo as Reality so he grows old in the limbo, but cobb knew it was a limbo and that's why he never grew old. + Show Spoiler + Actually, Since Cobb didnt know what he was doing in Saito's place anyways it means that he forgot this is all a dream and has been searching for Saito, but he lost what he was doing so he thinks its reality. Cobb actually does age in Limbo only because he came minutes after Saito dies. They know Saito die and thus thats why they go into Limbo (to try to find him and fishcher). Anyways!!! They are not in two levels of limbo or whatever, imagine limbo as being fucking huuuuuuuuuuuge and a strip of the beach. Add to that Cobb has been searching for some time maybe years to be fair, he ends ujp on the beach again only after searching relentlessly and is tired so saito after many years losing touch on reality finds him and thats where we get the meet up. Also, thats where saito sees Cobbs totem the SECOND time around and recognizes him and what this is since he spins it. Cobb sees it spinning and they both realize they are dreammmmmmmin | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
On July 17 2010 14:59 Newguy wrote: Seeing it in 9 hours! Can't wait any longer, after seeing one trailer a few months ago it hooked me and I've been waiting for this to come out ever since. Didn't actually see it, I was on-call for work (horrible system imo), but am seeing it in 1 hour 15 minutes! | ||
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iNdEMAND
130 Posts
On July 20 2010 07:48 Nal_rAwr wrote: found this on the second page of the 24 Hours of digg might go up as the day and week progresses incase you guys miss it: here it is http://www.cinemablend.com/new/An-Illustrated-Guide-To-The-5-Levels-Of-Inception-19643.html the website it actually annoying, so i will spoiler the picture here: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + i have some specific questions and i don't really remember the movie well :d 1. if people (cobb, mal, saito, cobb again) kill themselves in LIMBO to get out, where do they go? do they go back to the previous dream? like "Level 4" in the picture? if its bad to go into limbo, why can't you just kill yourself whenever to come back? 2. how did cobb go into limbo to save saito again? did he kill himself? idr. so when he kills himself again in limbo to get out of limbo, where does he go if he's dead in the previous "level?" 3. cobb and mal put themselves in limbo to "stay together?" iirc they did it in purpose? so say they have a companion, who followed them until they died and went to limbo. isn't there two ways to get out of limbo? cobb and mal kill themselves immediately, or wait a few seconds for the companion to react and give them the KICK (wait does a KICK send people out of limbo?) i dont really remember/understand the whole limbo deal can someone help ;d thx answers + Show Spoiler + 1. I believe they go back to the dream level before it. Because Mal and Cobb went so deep within their dream, (dream within a dream within a dream, etc) I assume they would have had to kill themselves multiple times. And if you add to that the fact that Cobb planted the idea that Mal's world was never real and that to get back to reality she needed to kill herself like she did many times before Cobb unintentionally made her commit suicide. 2. Cobb drowned from the van crashing into the river. 3. Nope. Cobb and Mal did it by accident by going to far within their dreams. I personally believe that one could get "kicked" out of limbo but we don't know for sure. Because Cobb and Mal went into limbo by accident they had no one in the dream world above them to kick them so they had to kill themselves to wake up. | ||
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cava
United States1035 Posts
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/board/nest/167024711?p=1 | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On July 20 2010 08:32 cava wrote: Here is a theory that throws the conventional 5 level thinking as shown above me out the window. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/board/nest/167024711?p=1 + Show Spoiler + I like this theory. It explains all of the seemingly silly coincidences, things that nag you in the back of your mind when you watch the movie and especially the opening scenes. Very cunning of them to put them so early in the movie when you don't know what it means. Then, when you watch it again, and the ideas put forth in Inception (remember what they said about ideas?) take root and you unravel the greater mystery. | ||
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On July 19 2010 16:42 Endymion wrote: Edit:Response to DarthThienAn + Show Spoiler + 1. I never thought of it that way, that the protagonists were in it for the thrill of the adventure. I have never met anyone who would risk everything they have just for an adrenaline rush, but I guess that could have been because from being able to access dreams whenever they want, so nothing else is exciting. I guess it just feels completely irrational to me that someone would live and behave in such a destructive manner for the thrills. I mean, they weren't only going into the dream and destroying projections, they were destroying millions of jobs and commerce. Irrational in my opinion, but understandable. As for Cobb, do you sympathize for him? His hell is self created after all, yet he still risks everyone around him to escape. You could actually see him as the antagonist and Mal as the protagonist if you really looked deep into it, it's not just mere selfishness. He gave up eternity with his wife for "real life," and then he realized it was a mistake, and Mal died in the process. She died out of her love for the fake world of their's, while he lived for the real world which neither of them could really belong to. Personally, I think I would have chosen the dream as Mal did, even if she only did it subconsciously. 3. Well no I understand the ending, I was just unsatisfied with it. I think it would have been more definitively ambiguous had Cobb's father knocked it over while the camera panned to it, instead of leaving sides of people saying that it looked like it was going to fall or that it wasn't. 4. It was most definitely partially a romance, half of the story was about the love between Cobb and Mal. It may not be The Notebook incarnate, but neither is Vanilla Sky and I still view that as a romance. It's just the story of how love ripped them apart in the end instead of brining them together, which I think is more emotionally effective than The Notebook or most other traditional American romances. I guess thats what a drama would be though, because it's not very "romantic," but what ever, it's really just cutting hairs. The point I was trying to make is that I couldn't find a central point of the movie to focus on, while there were three (in my opinion romance, thriller, action) presented. Romance being the love between Mal and Cobb, thriller being the thrill of being in a dream/the idea of the movie as a whole, and action of course being all of the gunfire and explosions. 5. I should really take up your advice on not having expectations, but it's difficult when I surround myself with such trustworthy and competent people ^.^ + Show Spoiler + 1. Eh, I think I would group people who work in the technology field in the same category. The desire to "discover" something new. 2. I don't really sympathize for Cobb, but I understand how he could do what he did. If someone's in hell, they aren't going to be thinking about other people, they're going to be thinking about how to get themselves out of that hell. Even Cobb's "selfless" move to stay behind and rescue Saito might be seen as selfish because he needs Saito, but still, it's a very plausible character to me. He didn't give up eternity with his wife did he? He said so himself that the reason why he used inception on her in the first place was because she was in misery. She was tired of being in that world, even if she was with him. And then there's that "riddle" - they didn't want to be there anymore. They were ready to get out. The fact that the idea - "the world isn't reality and death is the only escape" carried over into real life was a mistake, and it was too late for him to fix it. She died because he put that idea into her head and it stayed in her subconscious - when she got back to reality, she wasn't sure whether or not it was reality; she became convinced that it was a dream and that death was the only escape. Mal didn't choose the dream world... she was actually trying to get back to reality, but didn't realize she was already there. Because of Cobb's planting that idea in her subconscious, no matter where she was, she would always question whether or not she was in reality or in a dream. 3. Eh, yea, to some extent, the ending was meh to me as well. True, Cobb's father could have knocked it over, but that so inelegant in comparison  . I suppose it would have done the job though. Maybe the director didn't think of that lol.4. The fact that part of the movie was about Cobb and Mal's relationship doesn't make it a romance. The focus on their relationship was more about Cobb's personal struggles with inception/dream sharing than the romance. A romance would have the relationship struggle, not a member of the relationship struggle. Not to mention that Mal's technically dead for the entire movie. I'm not saying it has to be The Notebook to be a romance either, but I just feel like the focus on Cobb and Mal was never about their love (other than they loved each other a lot), and was more about Cobb accepting Mal's death and confronting his own guilt/responsibility. Ah, well, to each his own I guess. I still see the drama/thriller aspect surpassing the other two by far. Regarding action, the focus was never really on the killing/shooting/sniping, etc. Especially toward the end, I could definitely feel like the "main" story was following Cobb/Fischer rather than Eames or Arthur or Yusuf. And the latter group was definitely more "action-y" than the former group. 5. I mean, I heard it was good too. It's just easy for me to forget what people say when the movie starts, lol. For Xeris: On July 20 2010 02:33 Xeris wrote: Here's another weird plot hole I noticed when watching a second time... + Show Spoiler + They go into the "4th level" (I'm assuming this is limbo?) , Mal dies, they save Fischer, and then Cobb stays to "find Saito" since Saito is in limbo (somehow they know Saito died). Is there just one general limbo, or are people's limbos different? How would Saito be in the limbo of Cobb (since they went into Cobb's dream, ended up in his world, etc) ... how was he there?? He wakes up on the shore (AGAIN), suggesting that he went into ANOTHER dream (a 5th level?) , how else would he have gotten from the house with Mal to the shore of a beach where Saito was. Wouldn't he have had to go into Saito's dream to be in his limbo? And when Cobb finds Saito in limbo, why is only Saito old? + Show Spoiler + Well, the "4th level" for Cobb wasn't really limbo. He and Ariadne never actually died, they used the dream-machine again in the snow fortress to go into Cobb's subconscious, where he battled Mal. Mal came from Cobb's subconscious. Take her out of it, and I guess her actions are undone in a way / she "allows" Fischer to be revived. Saito, on the other hand, went into limbo. Cobb arrived there a little bit after Saito did (I think Cobb died in the 4th level, didn't he? He got knifed, so he would have died eventually if he didn't kill himself), which you could attribute the age difference to. So I'm going to go with the idea that there is a general limbo for everyone. So technically, Cobb goes through 5 levels total, though I think the last one is limbo, or Saito's limbo. My take anyway. | ||
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On July 20 2010 08:32 cava wrote: Here is a theory that throws the conventional 5 level thinking as shown above me out the window. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/board/nest/167024711?p=1 That is an awesome perspective. | ||
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Pinkie
United States145 Posts
This idea blew my mind just as much as the movie. I think the way the movie was made was so that it doesn't have any seemingly correct ending, and we never truly know just what may have happened throughout the whole ordeal. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
The movie starts in media res with Cobb being washed up and dragged over to old Saito, who clearly can't recall who Cobb was. He equates him to someone from a half-forgotten dream. We don't know who these people are or how they got there. And then begins the remembering process, starting off with how Cobb met Saito. During the extraction, when the second level begins to crumble, Saito is neither killed or kicked. He merely wakes up. This shows that neither two options are actually necessary to get out of a dream, but they just accelerate the process. Then, when Cobb brings Ariadne to the dream for the first time, she is interrupted midsentence during the dream before she involuntarily wakes up. The dreamshare device was set to turn off at 5 minutes, showing that when the device turns off, the subjects in the dream are ejected out of it. It also has an automatic timer. Cut back to the scene before we go back to limbo. Cobb is drowning in level 1, but everybody else seems to be just fine, and sitting around doing much of nothing. However, according to their calculations, they still had several weeks to go through (10 hr flight) and a whole bunch of defenders out to eliminate them. Why are they so calm? Now, we go back to limbo, and Saito has remembered what he was doing, and his deal with Cobb. Cobb passes over the gun, and his job is now finally done. The screen goes black. So, there are three options that could get anyone out of a dream. A kick, a death, or a device shutdown. There can't be a kick, since there's no way to kick them out in their current state. A death might do it, but that wouldn't explain the attitudes of the rest of the team. The final option, and the most likely explanation that makes everything so much simpler, is that the device timed out automatically, the team returned back to their own selves, and everything was just jolly. Saito doesn't go insane from living his entire life in only a flash, Fischer resolves his issues with his dad, Cobb gets to go home, and everybody else gets paid. This actually makes sense; also, by the same logic, Cobb and Mal killing themselves by freight train didn't bring them back to reality, the timer just ran out. -From TvTropes This actually makes a lot of sense cause it explains the problem with getting out of Limbo perfectly. There are 2 conditions to get out of Limbo: 1) the timer runs out (meaning all top levels are gone) 2) you kill yourself (get pushed straight out to reality) The problem with Limbo is that you're in there for so long cause of time dilution that you forget you're in a dream and so you never think about killing yourself | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
On July 20 2010 12:22 Pinkie wrote: This idea blew my mind just as much as the movie. I think the way the movie was made was so that it doesn't have any seemingly correct ending, and we never truly know just what may have happened throughout the whole ordeal. + Show Spoiler + ehe I read through this and other threads on that and........I have come to the conclusion that I believe hes awake. When explaining the difference between ariadne at the cafe, Cobb states that you never know how you got from one place to another etc etc. However, near the end of the film Nolan lets us know that hes on a plane and its just landed. Saito has called and we get to see him at the airport. He then proceeds to walk pass and get through to America, picks up his shit and sees his dad. Then hes at home. You see the difference between this and the dreams is this is how it happened and its a sequence, we know how he got there and we know he got home cause his dad drove him. Another thing that i found thats convincing is a ring. Why is this?? Well some guy and others have pointed out that COBB has a ring on when hes in the dreams whereas he has no ring on when hes awake and in reality. On top of that, throughout the movie the reason why saito interrupts Cobb when he tests out the totem after being sedated underground the first time was to show that.........SAITO would recognize Cobbs totem at the end where hes in LIMBO. Basically that scene just shows that saito has seen the totem before and would serve as a piece to remember that this is all a dream and they need to get out of limbo. So it hadnt anything to do with cobb being in a dream and everyones an illusion. | ||
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Malgrif
Canada1095 Posts
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Ideas
United States8150 Posts
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
so they lived on? what about spinning the totem to find out what about realizing it was an impossible world? i guess they didn't have sense enough in limbo? gah | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On July 20 2010 13:42 OhThatDang wrote: + Show Spoiler + ehe I read through this and other threads on that and........I have come to the conclusion that I believe hes awake. When explaining the difference between ariadne at the cafe, Cobb states that you never know how you got from one place to another etc etc. However, near the end of the film Nolan lets us know that hes on a plane and its just landed. Saito has called and we get to see him at the airport. He then proceeds to walk pass and get through to America, picks up his shit and sees his dad. Then hes at home. You see the difference between this and the dreams is this is how it happened and its a sequence, we know how he got there and we know he got home cause his dad drove him. Another thing that i found thats convincing is a ring. Why is this?? Well some guy and others have pointed out that COBB has a ring on when hes in the dreams whereas he has no ring on when hes awake and in reality. On top of that, throughout the movie the reason why saito interrupts Cobb when he tests out the totem after being sedated underground the first time was to show that.........SAITO would recognize Cobbs totem at the end where hes in LIMBO. Basically that scene just shows that saito has seen the totem before and would serve as a piece to remember that this is all a dream and they need to get out of limbo. So it hadnt anything to do with cobb being in a dream and everyones an illusion. Yo, I totally agreed with this until I thought about it and we really DON'T know how he got there. In limbo Saito's hand reaches for the gun and then it goes to black. Next thing we know we're in the plane again. We don't know what happened to get them out of limbo. | ||
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