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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Poll: ESL One Genting ChampionTeam Liquid (42) 69% Newbee (19) 31% 61 total votes Your vote: ESL One Genting Champion (Vote): Team Liquid
(Vote): Newbee
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my preferred finals matchup
I do hope the finals will look as competitive as their first meetup this tournament where the games were really tight. Not a rerun of TI7 finals
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
let's not get steamrolled newbee!
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Newbee has got to have a pretty good plan to face Liquid after the last attempt. I think it'll be interesting to see if they can overcome them this time. I think Liquid will take this finals but wouldn't be surprised if Newbee take a game or two convincingly.
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On January 28 2018 11:34 opterown wrote:
let's not get steamrolled newbee!
tis a good plan
On January 28 2018 12:08 OmniEulogy wrote:
Newbee has got to have a pretty good plan to face Liquid after the last attempt. I think it'll be interesting to see if they can overcome them this time. I think Liquid will take this finals but wouldn't be surprised if Newbee take a game or two convincingly.
tbh i don't newbee is gonna win but i'm just hoping that newbee makes it hard as their previous series .. that series didn't look easy for liquid
come on newbee give a TI rematch we deserve
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Let's go liquid! 
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Is Naga carry or support?
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On January 28 2018 16:10 Dota2_314 wrote:
Is Naga carry or support?
so far NB picked naga + disruptor always as support.
with Gyro and OD that won't change i think.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
That first blood god damn
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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sccc already tilted .. it's like he doesnt play sf
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It feels like this game will be very fast out of control for NB.
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its back to normal now good save by newbee supports
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newbee is actually keeping up .. nice
i didnt wanna watch a stomp
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God these teams really do play so fast... all their moves just seem so decisive.
edit: that fight was art... just woww
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this treant pick by kuroky probably is saving their whole game since newbee is getting ahead in terms of kills and they just couldn't take objectives
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
That was sooooooooo good by newbee
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
That was a nice fight by newbee
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am i looking at this right .. newbee is outplaying liquid and actually winning?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
Man liquid is just not very good at rosh fights atm :D
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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damn, those fights are crazy, perfect saves and coordination from both teams
E: ok, when the hammer drops ... what can u do ^^
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Nice ravage fakes from kpii to bait the bkb in the end even if didn't matter anymore
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I remember the quote from OD: "NB normally win before 40min", guess they still do.
I expect naga ban every game now and the 3:1 win for TL
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On January 28 2018 16:49 spudde123 wrote:
Nice ravage fakes from kpii to bait the bkb in the end even if didn't matter anymore
miracle would pop bkb there regardless, he had like below 10%? HP.
It seemed kpii had the easiest game in his life. Hid durability made it easy to wait forever with ravage, he was just strolling around.
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Liquid's Roshan fights have been awful this entire tournament outside of maybe the EG series. They either get wiped, get their aegis stolen, or they just barely get it before the enemy can snatch it from them.
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Nobody talk about the Treant pick ? I love this hero but he feel really useless this patch 0 damage, healing is not great in most situations (always DoT to burst it). The only thing he can do his healing tower. I hope Kuro dont try it again
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If you think about it, Newbee is very good with their combo heroes. TI7 they had Bloodseeker-Earth Spirit. Now they have Naga-Disruptor, good to see them not getting stomped.
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On January 28 2018 17:03 Tegenaria wrote:
Nobody talk about the Treant pick ? I love this hero but he feel really useless this patch 0 damage, healing is not great in most situations (always DoT to burst it). The only thing he can do his healing tower. I hope Kuro dont try it again
It worked really great early game and saved a hero in a teamfight several times.
But as soon as NB got aegis they were just permanently pushing/fighting and yeah, from there on the heal on towers was just too slow to have an impact. Also the ult didn't seem to have much impact with song to counter it and the force staffs.
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On January 28 2018 17:03 Tegenaria wrote:
Nobody talk about the Treant pick ? I love this hero but he feel really useless this patch 0 damage, healing is not great in most situations (always DoT to burst it). The only thing he can do his healing tower. I hope Kuro dont try it again
I remember seeing I think last year a similar strat, and the game played out similar, except they held onto there mid tower long enough that they eventually had a networth lead. I think you could replay that game again and again, and if Liquid held on a bit longer it could have easily swung the other way.
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Treant pick prevented liquid from getting run over by newbee earlier on. I think they pushed the mid tower so many times that if there wasn't a treant they probably other objectives from the speed of how they were fighting.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Newbee really showing up today, not sure if miracle's TB will be enough to keep liquid in this
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hmm this facebook player is so inferior, hope ESL didn't sell Starcraft rights as well
Cool to see Liquid still doing well.
I'm a bit out of pro dota, but Liquid should have the better lategame lineup here right?
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kpii zeus isn't doing so well
other offlane heroes probably would've been better like sk or es
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Nevermind looks like this won't even reach lategame  Miracle just waltzing through
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Those madman blinks my god
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next meta push should be GG for newbee. TB got a bit too much farm to handle.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
How the fuck is blink such a good purchase on TB
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can people ban omniknight
you don't win against that hero unless the other team gets an aneurysm or stops caring for the rest of the draft
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2.5k and Matumba has caught up to SCCC :D
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didn't know tb reflection also procs pl ult when he uses it on illusions
this pl pick seems like a terrible idea
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On January 28 2018 17:53 goody153 wrote:
didn't know tb reflection also procs pl ult when he uses it on illusions
this pl pick seems like a terrible idea
yeah, atm TB seems pretty much like a hardcounter to PL ... that 6s CD at lvl 20 ~.~
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this is over for newbee
no way they beat tb on it's peak with their heroes
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
And here I was worried there for a while
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Terrorblade's cooldown reduction talents are pretty insane
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On January 28 2018 17:55 Sloke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 17:53 goody153 wrote:
didn't know tb reflection also procs pl ult when he uses it on illusions
this pl pick seems like a terrible idea yeah, atm TB seems pretty much like a hardcounter to PL ... that 6s CD at lvl 20 ~.~
i think that's even pretty good even not against PL considering the range of reflection and it's insane cd
was TB picked after pl ? didn't even know that's how the reflection vs pl illusion interaction work
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is that the standard TB talent tree build ? that shit is strong
i now have a reason to pick tb on pubs
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nonetheless good game from NB for what its worth. but in the end TL's picks were the deciding factor imo.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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On January 28 2018 17:59 Sloke wrote:
nonetheless good game from NB for what its worth. but in the end TL's picks were the deciding factor imo.
Yeah TL stalled long enough for liquid TB to outscale them all though if there was no omniknight they probably could've killed tb in his peak
or if kpii was playing another offlane hero instead of zeus which acted like a bloody ward
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On January 28 2018 18:14 Dekalinder wrote:
ALright that was nice XD
It made me miss James tho, I mean compared to Machine at TI7(who was super good imo) James wasn't even that bad
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ok, if anyone NB should know how to play against naga, right? lets see how this one goes.
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On January 28 2018 18:27 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Miraclevoker
the crowd really loves it
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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what is that miracle sunstrike ... god~
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loool that dopplegang rip
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On January 28 2018 18:39 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
loool that dopplegang rip
Icefrog himself is on liquid's side
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Miracle is gonna have to put a hell of a show for Liquid to win this.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
is it usual for matumba to be pos3? feels like he's hardly done much this series
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On January 28 2018 18:46 opterown wrote:
is it usual for matumba to be pos3? feels like he's hardly done much this series
yes
him and mc swap 2 and 3 very often
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At least Newbee knows PL is a snowballing hero. Fuck those battlefury trend lol
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On January 28 2018 18:46 opterown wrote:
is it usual for matumba to be pos3? feels like he's hardly done much this series
He usually get sacrificed yeah but not this hard. They always try to give Miracle a good game and let Matu try to get as much as he can. But Venge is not the right hero for these type of games, she can't really catch up in the same way
Embarassing to not have detection in a grand final
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lol that Meatball nearly killed them all.
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Think they wanted venge so they could save miracle. But you can't really sacrifice a venge this hard because she sucks if she plays from behind. Maybe could have gone venge support and give matu something that can catch up more
But then again Kuro is a god compared to me so idk.
Miracle is strong but it's really difficult to carry a game alone when there are multiple heroes on the enemy team that is farmed. We'll see. might be doable
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Uberlord international rescue
Newbee making good use of ultis being on cd and forcing a new fight
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lol sometimes i feel cataclysm sucks without a good combo like tide or void
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Rofl, I haven't even thought about Underlord and Naga combo with ulties, that's sick retreat in every unfavorable outcome.
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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Helicopter with gun and missiles > magic
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looks like panel curse is real lol
jokes aside, these two teams are really closely matched. amazing games so far. hope this goes 5 games
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Okay, so this game makes me even more sad that Secret threw that Game2 yesterday. They were OWNING Newbee the whole game until Dusa got Rapier. FFS
On another hand, even the TI Champs can't out-Invoker them. It was too easy for Disruptor to get kills with Glimpse. That hero buys wards and uses Glimpse + Storm to win a whole games. Unbelievable...
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They need to make sure Matu can have more impact. They sacked him way too much and he just ended up not being able to do anything.
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Getting glimpsed to a certain death is definitely one of the top-5 saddest feelings in Dota
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Matu was just way too poor that game. Miracle does a lot but it's too difficult to be the only farmed hero on the team vs multiple farmed heroes. Feels like it was a bit of a draft loss.
Good effort by Liquid though
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Disruptor is probably one of the most hated heroes for me. Glimpse is retarded spell and for some unknown reason it has 1800 range since he came out. "Hey dude, when we start chasing you, your amazing positioning in this fight mattered for jack shit, enjoy your ride back into Kinetic Field, h3h3h3".
It wouldn't be such a problem if there was more ways to counter play it though.
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newbee only lost when faith is not on Disruptor
Newbee is 7-1 with disruptor in this tournament
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On January 28 2018 19:13 Vertical wrote:
newbee only lost when faith is not on Disruptor
Newbee is 7-1 with disruptor in this tournament
Just like EG only won with Lycan? Newbee top tier CONFIRMED!
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On January 28 2018 19:18 maximrobi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 19:13 Vertical wrote:
newbee only lost when faith is not on Disruptor
Newbee is 7-1 with disruptor in this tournament Just like EG only won with Lycan? Newbee top tier CONFIRMED!
Well they are first picking Disruptor, rofl.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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pretty sure courier >> first blood
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"Make sure when you make sets that the colorscheme is the same." -volvo
"Also here's a PA looking dragonknight"
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Liquid tried so hard to ban Newbee's support
rightfully so since Newbee variation in support looked limited this tournament
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They aren't sacrificing matu this game, should be a lot better
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On January 28 2018 19:38 Rocket-Bear wrote:
They aren't sacrificing matu this game, should be a lot better
it feels like venge just isnt a sacrificable hero.
overall looks like liquid is gonna win this unless something really surprising happens
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I really don't understand how Newbee would stop the combined tankiness of DK Lifestealer and Razor with 4 magic heroes
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I dont see how Newbee getting through 3 tanky core with this lineup
On January 28 2018 19:40 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I really don't understand how Newbee would stop the combined tankiness of DK Lifestealer and Razor with 4 magic heroes
fuck 2 sec too late
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kotl has the most last hits on newbee's side atm
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i feel asleep
how did newbee win game 3 ? and who's ahead ?
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On January 28 2018 19:47 goody153 wrote:
i feel asleep
how did newbee win game 3 ? and who's ahead ?
newbee 2 liquid 1 currently
game 4 liquid is leading, but far from over
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kinda unnecessary to try to save DK their, but oh well, won't matter in the long run
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Wow, Disruptor dives into 4 of them and brings Miracle back 2k range, such skill...
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On January 28 2018 19:47 goody153 wrote:
i feel asleep
how did newbee win game 3 ? and who's ahead ?
Liquid had no real way to stop BKB and repel Gyro because only Invoker had items, Venge and Naga were too poor
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Mindcontrol fountain diving too early lol
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Liquid staying way too long there FFS 
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Liquid diving fountain instead of hitting buildings? >_>
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newbee just doesnt have the (non magic) damage though, even if they are getting their bkbs
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I get the feeling that Kuroky read MC the riot act after getting killed fountain diving twice already.
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On January 28 2018 20:00 korendir wrote:
newbee just doesnt have the (non magic) damage though, even if they are getting their bkbs
Yeah they can blow up one core but the other two will finish the job
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wow we are actually going to a game 5 not 3-0 sweep
if only TI7 was only like this
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On January 28 2018 20:01 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:00 korendir wrote:
newbee just doesnt have the (non magic) damage though, even if they are getting their bkbs Yeah they can blow up one core but the other two will finish the job
The second time, it cost them the ability to take the full set of rax and functionally end the game. Liquid was still going to win if they dialed it in, which they just did, but every player had to ride the fine line for aggression & MC got too far.
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When you send 2 of your cores back to base with Chen, and still turn back and destroy their whole team 3v4 with Naix and 2 supports. The definition of facerush.
Let's go Liquid, one more.
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felt more like a draft win though, but liquid's early game was just insane too which made it even worse
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On January 28 2018 20:01 Taf the Ghost wrote:
I get the feeling that Kuroky read MC the riot act after getting killed fountain diving twice already.
I don't think so. He dived 2 times and nearly got kills, eventually died. Third time he got a triple kill and kinda single-handedly won them the last team-fight/ the whole game.
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On January 28 2018 20:06 korendir wrote:
felt more like a draft win though, but liquid's early game was just insane too which made it even worse
I mean, Liquid's early game was the reason of the draft.
Disruptor and KOTL can't do anything when compared to supports like Chen and Earth Spirit.
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On January 28 2018 20:08 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:06 korendir wrote:
felt more like a draft win though, but liquid's early game was just insane too which made it even worse I mean, Liquid's early game was the reason of the draft. Disruptor and KOTL can't do anything when compared to supports like Chen and Earth Spirit.
didn't see the game but it's probably hard to kill razor/naix/dk tricore with nyx/qop/gyro cores
especially if they get ahead
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On January 28 2018 20:04 Ramiz1989 wrote:
When you send 2 of your cores back to base with Chen, and still turn back and destroy their whole team 3v4 with Naix and 2 supports. The definition of facerush.
Let's go Liquid, one more.
facerush is what ig did post ti2
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On January 28 2018 20:10 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:08 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 20:06 korendir wrote:
felt more like a draft win though, but liquid's early game was just insane too which made it even worse I mean, Liquid's early game was the reason of the draft. Disruptor and KOTL can't do anything when compared to supports like Chen and Earth Spirit. didn't see the game but it's probably hard to kill razor/naix/dk tricore with nyx/qop/gyro cores especially if they get ahead
razor/naix/dk tricore with a chen too
but yeah you are right, that's what happened
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On January 28 2018 20:15 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:04 Ramiz1989 wrote:
When you send 2 of your cores back to base with Chen, and still turn back and destroy their whole team 3v4 with Naix and 2 supports. The definition of facerush.
Let's go Liquid, one more. facerush is what ig did post ti2
Don't see your point though? Facerush is literally any comp with tanky heroes that just runs at you and wants to fight, diving towers to get kills, force team fights and then push towers, and games are usually short.
On January 28 2018 20:10 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:08 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 20:06 korendir wrote:
felt more like a draft win though, but liquid's early game was just insane too which made it even worse I mean, Liquid's early game was the reason of the draft. Disruptor and KOTL can't do anything when compared to supports like Chen and Earth Spirit. didn't see the game but it's probably hard to kill razor/naix/dk tricore with nyx/qop/gyro cores especially if they get ahead
Indeed, but they get ahead cause Chen and ES could create enough space for them and kept ganking, KOTL and Disruptor couldn't do much. I mean at one point most farmed Newbee hero was QoP with 4k networth, while there were 3 heroes ahead of her on Liquid side and DK was first with 7k networth. It is a huge difference and QoP didn't die almost at all at that point, but couldn't farm cause of the constant pressure.
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Series is hype! Lets go Liquid!!!
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Jakiro in a game 5
Oh boy oh boy
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On January 28 2018 20:28 ShiaoPi wrote:
Jakiro in a game 5
Oh boy oh boy
first 3 picks were so good... not too sure about the jakiro
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We haven't seen much SF in this tourney, which I find surprising.
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ok tinker is better but still not as hype as invoker
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They are going to babysit Miracle a lot in the start again but Matu have a better hero than Venge now
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I am really not sure about Tinker against Naga and Disruptor. :/
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why'd liquid give naga and disruptor on a game 5 decider
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On January 28 2018 20:34 goody153 wrote:
why'd liquid give naga and disruptor on a game 5 decider
they already defeated that combo in group stage with es+sk combo. its round 2 (the rest aren't exactly the same i cant remember for sure)
Edit: wtf 65k viewers on facebook woah
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sccc laning really well right now
it's even 2v1 mostly .. kinda opposite to his game 1 laning
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liquid decided to challenge the naga+disruptor combo in the last and deciding game
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On January 28 2018 20:35 korendir wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:34 goody153 wrote:
why'd liquid give naga and disruptor on a game 5 decider they already defeated that combo in group stage with es+sk combo. its round 2 (the rest aren't exactly the same i cant remember for sure) Edit: wtf 65k viewers on facebook woah
it's a comfort pick and there's no room for improvement since it's a game 5 so i don't think it's a wise move
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Newbee let MC get too much. No sentries vs a sandking for a couple of mins lol
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On January 28 2018 20:40 Rocket-Bear wrote:
Newbee let MC get too much. No sentries vs a sandking for a couple of mins lol
they've been placing a lot of priority in mid instead though, i guess its a conscious choice they made
Edit: Looks like matu is going to be the main for liquid this round
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Unlike Newbee though, Liquid has a lot of AoE control with 3 long range AoE stuns.
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On January 28 2018 20:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Don't see your point though? Facerush is literally any comp with tanky heroes that just runs at you and wants to fight, diving towers to get kills, force team fights and then push towers, and games are usually short.
the point is that dk chen isn't facerushy at all because they lack the rush element, liquid was just super far ahead.
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Game really comes down to Newbee getting the team fight wins before about 45 minutes, otherwise Liquid will outscale.
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On January 28 2018 20:46 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Don't see your point though? Facerush is literally any comp with tanky heroes that just runs at you and wants to fight, diving towers to get kills, force team fights and then push towers, and games are usually short.
the point is that dk chen isn't facerushy at all because they lack the rush element, liquid was just super far ahead.
http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/485515-another-brain-exercise-deathball-vs-face-rush
You can read a bit more on the matter if you want. DK is literally the epitome of facerush, same as Chen, cause they can dive towers, get kills, and leave without any trouble, and are both great at pushing those towers, both can end the game quickly and get ahead because of those kills and towers takedowns.
Just because it is called facerush, it doesn't have anything to do with the rush, you want to face fight as much as possible and take advantage of the early game to snowball into victory.
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yeah that might be game now #justtinkerthings
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that was pretty bad from newbee
they should've expected that rosh contest
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
That was a Chinese Rosh by Newbee. Just walk in like you don't give a fuck, deservedly punished.
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On January 28 2018 20:56 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Game really comes down to Newbee getting the team fight wins before about 45 minutes, otherwise Liquid will outscale.
tough for newbee, they do now have the lineup to dmg building effectively, plus against a tinker
even if Liquid 2 rax down, tinker will still enable them to hold up and out scale
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Thanks god that NB are the only team proficient at this Naga "hero".
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On January 28 2018 20:58 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:56 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Game really comes down to Newbee getting the team fight wins before about 45 minutes, otherwise Liquid will outscale. tough for newbee, they do now have the lineup to dmg building effectively, plus against a tinker even if Liquid 2 rax down, tinker will still enable them to hold up and out scale
they have plenty of tinker catch(naga song the easiest catch, disruptor even pitlord can catch tinker) though and OD + ursa still outscale naix
this can still go either ways even if it goes late
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that is the kind of gamelosing shit NB pulls every single series. makes u wonder why they have a hard time winning stuff
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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this poor disruptor is gonna have a hard life against tinker
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On January 28 2018 21:00 Shergal wrote:
that is the kind of gamelosing shit NB pulls every single series. makes u wonder why they have a hard time winning stuff
they need to stop clumping against a draft that excels on those who clump
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
goddamn I wish I had the self control miracle does
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i think liquid already won
seems like newbee's already playing again even though they can still win this
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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ok how did that happen (liquid suddenly lost 4)
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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On January 28 2018 21:06 goody153 wrote:
ok how did that happen
Items just came on line and they saved Naga on a sliver on life. Bit of an anti-timing + really good NB plays.
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naga song combined with pitlord hold is really strong in catching tinker
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
I think we lost
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That sanity eclipse sound is brutal
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On January 28 2018 20:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Just because it is called facerush, it doesn't have anything to do with the rush, you want to face fight as much as possible and take advantage of the early game to snowball into victory.
That's literally where the name comes from, picking heroes which give you a movement speed advantage.
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god damn .. newbee finally broke the curse
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Sccc so smart he takes off his glasses so they don't get crushed in the hug
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wow ggwp
Newbee played and drafted spectacularly, well deserved. Great dota!
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
am I super far behind you guys or something or are you guys calling it after every small fight
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Can't understand why didn't Liquid give a lane of racks and play it safe with a split pushing Tinker... Sccc didn't have buyback. They pick him off and the game is kinda over.
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whoa they finally did it!
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On January 28 2018 21:12 Firebolt145 wrote:
am I super far behind you guys or something or are you guys calling it after every small fight
They are probably watching the livestream. So if you are as well then yes you are behind
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GG. Newbee really stepped up, a much more satisfying grand finals from Liquid compared to Dreamleague. Newbee was just better this time around
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
okay maybe i am far behind lol
fucking facebook player
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
Well deserved for newbee
They played amazingly well
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Well done by Newbee. They must've wanted the revenge for TI finals so much, good for them getting it.
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On January 28 2018 21:12 maximrobi wrote:
Can't understand why didn't Liquid give a lane of racks and play it safe with a split pushing Tinker... Sccc didn't have buyback. They pick him off and the game is kinda over.
newbee wasn't really that behind .. they just played defensive
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Anyway this makes for good storylines
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On January 28 2018 21:10 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 20:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Just because it is called facerush, it doesn't have anything to do with the rush, you want to face fight as much as possible and take advantage of the early game to snowball into victory. That's literally where the name comes from, picking heroes which give you a movement speed advantage.
"Now as to the distinction, they are very distinct. Facerush requires the ability to tank towers and kill heroes repeatedly under the tower. You draft mobile, bursty heroes or tanky heroes for this. The playstyle must be very aggressive, sometimes suicidal."
No, it doesn't. One of those facerush IG games, IG had Doom, Venge, Shadow Shaman, Nyx and Ember Spirit. In another one they picked Clockwerk. In Dota 1 this was considered face rush by IG: https://imgur.com/urC0o
Look at IG heroes, DK(!), Chen(!), Lycan, Panda and Shadow Shaman.
So, as I said, facerush is all about diving your opponents, getting kills, then taking down towers. Heroes that are good at that are mobile or tanky heroes. They don't necessarily have to be rushy, but they can.
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On January 28 2018 21:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:10 clusen wrote:On January 28 2018 20:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Just because it is called facerush, it doesn't have anything to do with the rush, you want to face fight as much as possible and take advantage of the early game to snowball into victory. That's literally where the name comes from, picking heroes which give you a movement speed advantage. "Now as to the distinction, they are very distinct. Facerush requires the ability to tank towers and kill heroes repeatedly under the tower. You draft mobile, bursty heroes or tanky heroes for this. The playstyle must be very aggressive, sometimes suicidal." No, it doesn't. One of those facerush IG games, IG had Doom, Venge, Shadow Shaman, Nyx and Ember Spirit. In another one they picked Clockwerk. In Dota 1 this was considered face rush by IG: https://imgur.com/urC0oLook at IG heroes, DK(!), Chen(!), Lycan, Panda and Shadow Shaman. So, as I said, facerush is all about diving your opponents, getting kills, then taking down towers. Heroes that are good at that are mobile or tanky heroes. They don't necessarily have to be rushy, but they can.
hey guys Newbee just won
in case you two didnt notice
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Papua New Guinea504 Posts
Newbee is lucky because they fight with Secret without Fata-, though i cannot say Ohaiyo is weaker, but Ohaiyo juz a stand in.
Liquid blinking escape method juz doesnt work for them this time, Disruptor juz pull them back to the circle, lol
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how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014
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Newbee found something special in the Naga/Disruptor combo while Liquid simply lagged behind in countering it, they didn't ban it, and they didn't find a support duo that could match up with them. The Jakiro didn't feel like anything close to being on the level of a Disruptor.
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On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014
As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily.
That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is.
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On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is.
it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time
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On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time
no idea what you're talking about. deathball was the meta. people got butthurt by the final they forgot EG also spam the same strat
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gg wp to both teams! congrats to Newbee, they really earned themselves this title. Must feel even better that they did it against Liquid, the curse is broken. But damn i cant see this fucking naga anymore, next time plz just ban it Kuro xD
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On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time
Well meta changes all the time from patch to patch, it's not about western dota fans, meta changes after every TI with big patch, no matter if you like it or not.
And TI4 was horrible for me and its whole meta, that deathball fast push was painful to watch, every game being the same, the same 20-30 heroes being drafted every game, and every game lasted for like 25 minutes max IIRC.
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On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time
Yeah I always feel like the finals changed the way people remembered TI4. Deathball was no doubt the superior strat, but not everyone was running it and there were plenty of good games.
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On January 28 2018 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time Well meta changes all the time from patch to patch, it's not about western dota fans, meta changes after every TI with big patch, no matter if you like it or not. And TI4 was horrible for me and its whole meta, that deathball fast push was painful to watch, every game being the same, the same 20-30 heroes being drafted every game, and every game lasted for like 25 minutes max IIRC.
TI2 avg length: 35:49
TI3 avg length: 35:50
TI4 avg length: 38:08
TI5 avg length: 40:35
TI6 avg length: 39:39
TI7 avg length: 40:59
as i said, western babby hurt egos
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On January 28 2018 21:41 Shergal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time Well meta changes all the time from patch to patch, it's not about western dota fans, meta changes after every TI with big patch, no matter if you like it or not. And TI4 was horrible for me and its whole meta, that deathball fast push was painful to watch, every game being the same, the same 20-30 heroes being drafted every game, and every game lasted for like 25 minutes max IIRC. TI2 avg length: 35:49 TI3 avg length: 35:50 TI4 avg length: 38:08 TI5 avg length: 40:35 TI6 avg length: 39:39 TI7 avg length: 40:59 as i said, western babby hurt egos
now show average length of VG's games
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On January 28 2018 21:41 Shergal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time Well meta changes all the time from patch to patch, it's not about western dota fans, meta changes after every TI with big patch, no matter if you like it or not. And TI4 was horrible for me and its whole meta, that deathball fast push was painful to watch, every game being the same, the same 20-30 heroes being drafted every game, and every game lasted for like 25 minutes max IIRC. TI2 avg length: 35:49 TI3 avg length: 35:50 TI4 avg length: 38:08 TI5 avg length: 40:35 TI6 avg length: 39:39 TI7 avg length: 40:59 as i said, western babby hurt egos
Whats wrong with you man? He just said he didnt like the Meta, what does that have to do with him being Western? I also didnt like it, has nothing to do with a Chinese team winning in the end.
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On January 28 2018 21:41 Shergal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time Well meta changes all the time from patch to patch, it's not about western dota fans, meta changes after every TI with big patch, no matter if you like it or not. And TI4 was horrible for me and its whole meta, that deathball fast push was painful to watch, every game being the same, the same 20-30 heroes being drafted every game, and every game lasted for like 25 minutes max IIRC. TI2 avg length: 35:49 TI3 avg length: 35:50 TI4 avg length: 38:08 TI5 avg length: 40:35 TI6 avg length: 39:39 TI7 avg length: 40:59 as i said, western babby hurt egos
Yeah, you included every single game and a ton of them used different strategies. Nice try. Now go again and get the average game length of the finals, to see your amazing 4 games that in total didn't last for more than hour and a half. Need a reminder? Take a look:  The International/2014
We had a 17 min game and 15 min game for fuck sake.
I see the same or even worse bias from you actually, you somehow think that those strategies were unique, and as someone that played Dota from 2005, I've seen them a bunch of times, they just weren't that dominant and meta defining. And they are terrible from spectators point of view. I couldn't care less if Na`Vi, EG, Liquid or any other team won the TI4 with deathball push, strategy sucked ass, end of story.
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i dont understand how anyone can defend that crap. that patch was even more cancerous after TI4
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On January 28 2018 21:48 hunter_x wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:41 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time Well meta changes all the time from patch to patch, it's not about western dota fans, meta changes after every TI with big patch, no matter if you like it or not. And TI4 was horrible for me and its whole meta, that deathball fast push was painful to watch, every game being the same, the same 20-30 heroes being drafted every game, and every game lasted for like 25 minutes max IIRC. TI2 avg length: 35:49 TI3 avg length: 35:50 TI4 avg length: 38:08 TI5 avg length: 40:35 TI6 avg length: 39:39 TI7 avg length: 40:59 as i said, western babby hurt egos Whats wrong with you man? He just said he didnt like the Meta, what does that have to so with him being Western? I also didnt like it, has nothing to do with a Chinese team winning in the end.
to stop talking about anyone in particular, many people's idea of what the meta was is completely incorrect and clouded by gut-reaction to the finals. i was there thinking the same stuff i'm saying now when that happened, so i remember it pretty well since i also followed that season closer than any other
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On January 28 2018 21:54 Shergal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2018 21:48 hunter_x wrote:On January 28 2018 21:41 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:26 Shergal wrote:On January 28 2018 21:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:On January 28 2018 21:20 Shergal wrote:
how is DK not a rush hero, did people forget about VG pushing base using that hero (and even Luna) under 10 minutes back in 2014 As I said, the epitome of facerush for me, the hero is fast in Dragon form, extremely tanky, has a stun, push towers quite easily. That guy is just misinformed on what the facerush is. it'll always be a shame that western dota fans got their egos so hurt by VG's fast push strat in TI4 to the point they forced the frog to change the whole game against it, because it was fucking beautiful and pretty out of line compared to what "the meta" was at the time Well meta changes all the time from patch to patch, it's not about western dota fans, meta changes after every TI with big patch, no matter if you like it or not. And TI4 was horrible for me and its whole meta, that deathball fast push was painful to watch, every game being the same, the same 20-30 heroes being drafted every game, and every game lasted for like 25 minutes max IIRC. TI2 avg length: 35:49 TI3 avg length: 35:50 TI4 avg length: 38:08 TI5 avg length: 40:35 TI6 avg length: 39:39 TI7 avg length: 40:59 as i said, western babby hurt egos Whats wrong with you man? He just said he didnt like the Meta, what does that have to so with him being Western? I also didnt like it, has nothing to do with a Chinese team winning in the end. to stop talking about anyone in particular, many people's idea of what the meta was is completely incorrect and clouded by gut-reaction to the finals. i was there thinking the same stuff i'm saying now when that happened, so i remember it pretty well since i also followed that season closer than any other
No, of course the meta wasn't deathball, deathball happened during the TI4 by VG that showed everyone else what superior strategy was, and then everybody and their grandma started doing it. Soon after we didn't have a single fucking game that lasted for more than 25-30 min, and everybody, including the pros, was praying for patch to come as soon as possible, cause people didn't enjoy playing it, nor watching it.
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Papua New Guinea504 Posts
Thats fair game, isnt it? If u dont like the strategy, u counter it or u ban it. The game start with banning heroes and u got 3 chances to ban the heroes u think u dun like. Liquid escape supp / offlaner strat juz didnt work out in game 5, cos disruptor counter it.
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EPT
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