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Please stop the caster bashing. You can disagree with them and post about it but posts that only serve to bash casters senselessly will be actioned. |
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 21 2014 11:15 shizaep wrote:
Not sure if that was just supposed to be a flame
not really flame, i guess that's just how EG plays him, both solo mid and carry
Poll: Best Carry?Sylar (79) 48% Hao (22) 13% BurNIng (21) 13% EternaLEnVy (18) 11% Arteezy (8) 5% Rabbit (8) 5% XBOCT (7) 4% Luo (1) 1% 164 total votes Your vote: Best Carry? (Vote): Hao
(Vote): Sylar
(Vote): Arteezy
(Vote): BurNIng
(Vote): EternaLEnVy
(Vote): Rabbit
(Vote): XBOCT
(Vote): Luo
Poll: Best Solo Mid?Mu (61) 39% Ferrari_430 (43) 27% SingSing (14) 9% Dendi (12) 8% Arteezy (9) 6% Mushi (9) 6% Super (7) 4% Lin (2) 1% 157 total votes Your vote: Best Solo Mid? (Vote): Mu
(Vote): Super
(Vote): Arteezy
(Vote): Mushi
(Vote): SingSing
(Vote): Lin
(Vote): Dendi
(Vote): Ferrari_430
Poll: Best Offlaner?UNiVeRsE (88) 52% bOne7 (23) 14% xiao8 (18) 11% iceiceice (16) 9% rOtk (14) 8% Funn1k (5) 3% Yao (3) 2% YYF (3) 2% 170 total votes Your vote: Best Offlaner? (Vote): xiao8
(Vote): rOtk
(Vote): UNiVeRsE
(Vote): iceiceice
(Vote): bOne7
(Vote): Yao
(Vote): YYF
(Vote): Funn1k
Poll: Best Support Duofy/Fenrir (73) 49% LaNm/MMY (27) 18% Banana/SanSheng (18) 12% zai/ppd (13) 9% Puppey/KuroKy (6) 4% Aui_2000/pieliedie (5) 3% ChuaN/Faith (5) 3% DD/DDC (1) 1% 148 total votes Your vote: Best Support Duo (Vote): Banana/SanSheng
(Vote): fy/Fenrir
(Vote): zai/ppd
(Vote): LaNm/MMY
(Vote): DD/DDC
(Vote): Aui_2000/pieliedie
(Vote): ChuaN/Faith
(Vote): Puppey/KuroKy
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Oh man what was I expecting reading the last few pages of an LR thread. Gross
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On July 21 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:09 opterown wrote:
what makes people rate sylar so highly? o.O Don't you like Sylar? I dunno, i always feel that people underrate him a lot with Super for 2 years already, even when he was #1 carry in China pre-TI3, before LGD choked hard in actual tournament. He might not have biggest hero pool at this TI, but there are basically no contenders for him now. Hao doesn't have his best tournament, mason blows, EE is EE, AAA - same story as Hao, LGD doesn't have carry player at all and iG have Luo. Ah, XBOCT. Well, no. Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 11:09 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On July 21 2014 11:06 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 11:00 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:55 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 10:49 Fwizzz wrote:
Why do a lot of people hate the chinese?
Chinese dota is so boring because of late game farming.
Chinese dota is so boring because of early game pushing.
Which is essentially like western play style.
Why do you want them to do lose the game? Chinese teams are ok. I liked newbee(just because they beat DK badly on one time period i have a thing on teams that beat fan favorites). At least for me. Part of the reason is that it's sort of anticlimactic to have chinese vs chinese cause it's a global competition so i it would be nice to have a hyped east vs west. Part of the reason is that not really wanting dota 2 to become like starcraft scene. Maybe for others it's more like Newbee vs VG is really anticlimactic since they are the least likable chinese team i think. IG and DK has so many fans while newbee has opterown and idk who are the VG fnatics but i know people love ROTK. So the top 8 is 5 Chinese teams and 3 Western teams, various teams took multiple games off various chinese teams (Newbee was 7-8, LGD was 7-8. TI3 was Western vs Western?Did you dislike that final? Although it was west vs west. It wasn't really anticlimactic. And even if it was west vs west. It was Ukraine + Estonia + Germany vs Sweden. So it had the international feeling that it gave. unlike this TI4 which is chinese vs chinese . I don' really mind if chinese win or makes it to grand finals every year. As long as it's chinese vs something else so that it feels like a global competition. Not another chinese tournament. That's really my only complain. Not to mention it was the match most hated team in the world vs the most like team in the world. And the most hated team in the world was a unstoppable juggernaut while na'vi was the only only that looked to beat alliance that time. So it was hyped as fuck. [A] were most hated team in the world? Rofl. People started this circlejerk only after they won TI3, noone was that negative as community is right now in case of Alliance. Especially it's hilarious on the background of DK/C9/EG big love. And Na'Vi always had shittons of haters, especially in glorious CIS community <3. You're missing the point. It's not about whether the team has fans or haters, it's about whether people care. People either liked Alliance, or wanted to see them burn... Navi have a huge fanbase, and also a huge base who hate Navi fans, so people care. It appears like relative to these teams, Newbee and Vici aren't really cared about. Well, there are still people like me who follow Hao and want him to success or other players. But, welp, no championships/no storylines/no followers - no fanbase, that's quite sad.
It's just how it is. Like I don't think of myself as some casual... I'm not as hard core as a lot of the people here, I only started watching Dota 2 at TI3. And I think a lot of people are like that, you can't expect everyone to have been playing Dota 1 since 2005. And the players on Newbee and Vici, excluding Hao (and now Rotk), haven't made me see who they are really. Maybe that's the organizers fault for not giving them more exposure or whatever, but it's how I feel.
Sometimes I think of myself as a voice of the casual, since I am new, but I think a lot of the time people on the forum really miss some things, because they think about their experience (which if fine), but then the casuals are being ignored, and if you ignore the casuals, you don't attract new people, you neglect a huge portion of your audience, less sponsorships, less prize pools, etc.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On July 21 2014 11:14 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On July 21 2014 11:09 opterown wrote:
what makes people rate sylar so highly? o.O Don't you like Sylar? I dunno, i always feel that people underrate him a lot with Super for 2 years already, even when he was #1 carry in China pre-TI3, before LGD choked hard in actual tournament. He might not have biggest hero pool at this TI, but there are basically no contenders for him now. Hao doesn't have his best tournament, mason blows, EE is EE, AAA - same story as Hao, LGD doesn't have carry player at all and iG have Luo. Ah, XBOCT. Well, no. i dno he's definitely top 3 but i think he plays too safe. hao's played pretty well since group stage.
Still not playing on his real level. I wish he can make me cry because of happiness in the evening tonight.
On the other hand, i wish that they won't put LS into midlane anymore.
On July 21 2014 11:14 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:09 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On July 21 2014 11:06 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 11:00 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:55 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 10:49 Fwizzz wrote:
Why do a lot of people hate the chinese?
Chinese dota is so boring because of late game farming.
Chinese dota is so boring because of early game pushing.
Which is essentially like western play style.
Why do you want them to do lose the game? Chinese teams are ok. I liked newbee(just because they beat DK badly on one time period i have a thing on teams that beat fan favorites). At least for me. Part of the reason is that it's sort of anticlimactic to have chinese vs chinese cause it's a global competition so i it would be nice to have a hyped east vs west. Part of the reason is that not really wanting dota 2 to become like starcraft scene. Maybe for others it's more like Newbee vs VG is really anticlimactic since they are the least likable chinese team i think. IG and DK has so many fans while newbee has opterown and idk who are the VG fnatics but i know people love ROTK. So the top 8 is 5 Chinese teams and 3 Western teams, various teams took multiple games off various chinese teams (Newbee was 7-8, LGD was 7-8. TI3 was Western vs Western?Did you dislike that final? Although it was west vs west. It wasn't really anticlimactic. And even if it was west vs west. It was Ukraine + Estonia + Germany vs Sweden. So it had the international feeling that it gave. unlike this TI4 which is chinese vs chinese . I don' really mind if chinese win or makes it to grand finals every year. As long as it's chinese vs something else so that it feels like a global competition. Not another chinese tournament. That's really my only complain. Not to mention it was the match most hated team in the world vs the most like team in the world. And the most hated team in the world was a unstoppable juggernaut while na'vi was the only only that looked to beat alliance that time. So it was hyped as fuck. [A] were most hated team in the world? Rofl. People started this circlejerk only after they won TI3, noone was that negative as community is right now in case of Alliance. Especially it's hilarious on the background of DK/C9/EG big love. And Na'Vi always had shittons of haters, especially in glorious CIS community <3. Alright i know this is a small sample size but almost all of my friends hate alliance, i got flacked when i said alliance goes through TI4 in IRC of tladt(anime discussion thread chat group) and they happily proclaimed that they hate alliance and hope they lose and as far i am concerned i almost always see anyone complaining about rat dota and saying alliance got no skill because they just split push. Seriously we all know that almost everyone wanted navi to win the grand finals . Majority likes hyper aggressive dota. And alot actually don't hate navi but rather the navi fans.
But Na'Vi hadn't played hyper aggressive dota consistently every game since first TI.
Yes, they go ham occassionally, but they're not more aggressive than Alliance are. But i understand why did people want [A] to lose in general at TI, it's boring to cheer for unstoppable juggernaut, especially after Na'Vi gave hope to other part of Western world winning Alienware Cup.
On July 21 2014 11:17 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:12 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On July 21 2014 11:09 opterown wrote:
what makes people rate sylar so highly? o.O Don't you like Sylar? I dunno, i always feel that people underrate him a lot with Super for 2 years already, even when he was #1 carry in China pre-TI3, before LGD choked hard in actual tournament. He might not have biggest hero pool at this TI, but there are basically no contenders for him now. Hao doesn't have his best tournament, mason blows, EE is EE, AAA - same story as Hao, LGD doesn't have carry player at all and iG have Luo. Ah, XBOCT. Well, no. On July 21 2014 11:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 11:09 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On July 21 2014 11:06 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 11:00 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:55 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 10:49 Fwizzz wrote:
Why do a lot of people hate the chinese?
Chinese dota is so boring because of late game farming.
Chinese dota is so boring because of early game pushing.
Which is essentially like western play style.
Why do you want them to do lose the game? Chinese teams are ok. I liked newbee(just because they beat DK badly on one time period i have a thing on teams that beat fan favorites). At least for me. Part of the reason is that it's sort of anticlimactic to have chinese vs chinese cause it's a global competition so i it would be nice to have a hyped east vs west. Part of the reason is that not really wanting dota 2 to become like starcraft scene. Maybe for others it's more like Newbee vs VG is really anticlimactic since they are the least likable chinese team i think. IG and DK has so many fans while newbee has opterown and idk who are the VG fnatics but i know people love ROTK. So the top 8 is 5 Chinese teams and 3 Western teams, various teams took multiple games off various chinese teams (Newbee was 7-8, LGD was 7-8. TI3 was Western vs Western?Did you dislike that final? Although it was west vs west. It wasn't really anticlimactic. And even if it was west vs west. It was Ukraine + Estonia + Germany vs Sweden. So it had the international feeling that it gave. unlike this TI4 which is chinese vs chinese . I don' really mind if chinese win or makes it to grand finals every year. As long as it's chinese vs something else so that it feels like a global competition. Not another chinese tournament. That's really my only complain. Not to mention it was the match most hated team in the world vs the most like team in the world. And the most hated team in the world was a unstoppable juggernaut while na'vi was the only only that looked to beat alliance that time. So it was hyped as fuck. [A] were most hated team in the world? Rofl. People started this circlejerk only after they won TI3, noone was that negative as community is right now in case of Alliance. Especially it's hilarious on the background of DK/C9/EG big love. And Na'Vi always had shittons of haters, especially in glorious CIS community <3. You're missing the point. It's not about whether the team has fans or haters, it's about whether people care. People either liked Alliance, or wanted to see them burn... Navi have a huge fanbase, and also a huge base who hate Navi fans, so people care. It appears like relative to these teams, Newbee and Vici aren't really cared about. Well, there are still people like me who follow Hao and want him to success or other players. But, welp, no championships/no storylines/no followers - no fanbase, that's quite sad. It's just how it is. Like I don't think of myself as some casual... I'm not as hard core as a lot of the people here, I only started watching Dota 2 at TI3. And I think a lot of people are like that, you can't expect everyone to have been playing Dota 1 since 2005. And the players on Newbee and Vici, excluding Hao (and now Rotk), haven't made me see who they are really. Maybe that's the organizers fault for not giving them more exposure or whatever, but it's how I feel. Sometimes I think of myself as a voice of the casual, since I am new, but I think a lot of the time people on the forum really miss some things, because they think about their experience (which if fine), but then the casuals are being ignored, and if you ignore the casuals, you don't attract new people, you neglect a huge portion of your audience, less sponsorships, less prize pools, etc.
Well, it was problem of MOBA games everytime, it's way easier to hype single player than whole team where that player is playing, nothing wrong about it.
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On July 21 2014 11:16 HighTimeDotA wrote:
for those who are whining about 2 chinese team in the finals: have you watched this game called starcraft? who cares where the team/players are from, quality games is all that matters.
We've been over this a billion times on LR threads already, different people watch for different reasons.
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On July 21 2014 11:15 Kipsate wrote:Sylar is the strongest carry player at TI, he is consistent, joins fights when he needs to and doesnt when he does not need too and him being able to play a solid Prophet(how ironic) has made a lot of the VG strats work. Hao makes mistakes quite often and is overaggressive and is a fucking terrible Naga Player(lol that game vs Empire). Sylar is consistent and strong, I would say that Rabbit is the best carry player out of the new generaiton. His hero pool is wide and while his Batrider leaves much to desire he plays a ton of other heroes quite well. but then again I am biased as fuck. Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:14 superstartran wrote:On July 21 2014 11:12 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2014 11:10 trifecta wrote:On July 21 2014 11:06 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 11:00 Kipsate wrote:On July 21 2014 10:55 goody153 wrote:On July 21 2014 10:49 Fwizzz wrote:
Why do a lot of people hate the chinese?
Chinese dota is so boring because of late game farming.
Chinese dota is so boring because of early game pushing.
Which is essentially like western play style.
Why do you want them to do lose the game? Chinese teams are ok. I liked newbee(just because they beat DK badly on one time period i have a thing on teams that beat fan favorites). At least for me. Part of the reason is that it's sort of anticlimactic to have chinese vs chinese cause it's a global competition so i it would be nice to have a hyped east vs west. Part of the reason is that not really wanting dota 2 to become like starcraft scene. Maybe for others it's more like Newbee vs VG is really anticlimactic since they are the least likable chinese team i think. IG and DK has so many fans while newbee has opterown and idk who are the VG fnatics but i know people love ROTK. So the top 8 is 5 Chinese teams and 3 Western teams, various teams took multiple games off various chinese teams (Newbee was 7-8, LGD was 7-8. TI3 was Western vs Western?Did you dislike that final? Although it was west vs west. It wasn't really anticlimactic. And even if it was west vs west. It was Ukraine + Estonia + Germany vs Sweden. So it had the international feeling that it gave. unlike this TI4 which is chinese vs chinese . I don' really mind if chinese win or makes it to grand finals every year. As long as it's chinese vs something else so that it feels like a global competition. Not another chinese tournament. That's really my only complain. Not to mention it was the match most hated team in the world vs the most like team in the world. And the most hated team in the world was a unstoppable juggernaut while na'vi was the only only that looked to beat alliance that time. So it was hyped as fuck. Seriously that was a really sick story line to follow. so the western teams should play better? or do we ask the chinese to stop playing well? lol It's a hard solution. There isn't much that can be done, just have to support the scenes, and hope the western scene gets better. Any esport being dominated by one nationality hurts the scene imo. It's not any scenes fault that one scene dominates the other. It's up to the challenging scenes to step up to the plate and put up a fight. EG played pretty well today, but PDD got severely outdrafted in pretty much all the games. Universe basically stole G2 away from VG. They played G3 much more solid, and were able to get the tri-lane match-up they were looking for against Void. I think that the draft was okeish apart from the Mirana, the Alch was a solid pick Zai however fucked up hardcore which really screwed EG, maybe even lost them that game.
Rabbit is really good. The first few games i saw of him was really amazing. I think he is the next burning/sylar.
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On July 21 2014 11:11 infiniteJest wrote:
It's almost as if they are playing to win instead of playing to entertain the spectators.
This right here. The 2 best teams in the tournament are playing for the crown. Whether you like them or not, it doesn't matter, they are the best. Don't whine about your team not making it, be upset because they weren't good enough.
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On July 21 2014 11:15 shizaep wrote:
why put Arteezy as both carry and solo mid? Mason has put up a solid performance this TI. I've actually been kind of impressed by him. Pulled more weight than Arteezy some games for sure
I get it Artour plays farming oriented mids but a lot of teams run that? Point is he plays it in the middle lane. It's like saying burning is the best solo mid because he played razor and iceiceice best carry because he played void, etc, etc
Not sure if that was just supposed to be a flame
Mason has an extremely limited hero pool, really only capable of consistent high level play on 4/5 heroes. As such, they have to play Rtz really as a 1 position middle. It fits Rtz's style of play better anyways.
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On July 21 2014 11:14 Evander Berry Wall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:
You're missing the point.
It's not about whether the team has fans or haters, it's about whether people care. People either liked Alliance, or wanted to see them burn... Navi have a huge fanbase, and also a huge base who hate Navi fans, so people care.
It appears like relative to these teams, Newbee and Vici aren't really cared about.
I have a suspicion Chinese fans care about this final, and there are a lot of Chinese fans.
Sorry, you're right.
Collectively talking about our forum is what I should have specified.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I think thats quite a small sample size, a lot of people (and all who love rat dota) love Alliance
Bulldog was picked up to standin for Alliance by Dendi and has his thing with Sheever, Akke and Loda are veterans and have a bromance that eclipses Kelly's relationship with Loda., EGM has his stuff with Blitz and S4 just feels like a pretty cool guy and made a reputation as the son of Magnus.
All in all I think its vastly overrated how many haters they have.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
fwiw hao has a higher GPM/XPM than sylar despite a much lower winrate (taking into account group stage too). that's with VG playing some very short games, which inflate PM stats too. interesting.
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On July 21 2014 11:15 Kipsate wrote:
I think that the draft was okeish apart from the Mirana, the Alch was a solid pick
Zai however fucked up hardcore which really screwed EG, maybe even lost them that game.
Yeah why would he stack ancients.
Also Dragons splash > enigma eidolons
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On July 21 2014 11:19 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:16 HighTimeDotA wrote:
for those who are whining about 2 chinese team in the finals: have you watched this game called starcraft? who cares where the team/players are from, quality games is all that matters. We've been over this a billion times on LR threads already, different people watch for different reasons.
There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is when people downplay the two teams left that have shown far more versatility then say Alliance, EG, of Na'vi who've been riding their one or two tricks the whole tournament.
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Alright, well I'm out of here guys.
Have a good night guys, see you all tomorrow!
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On July 21 2014 11:21 Kipsate wrote:
I think thats quite a small sample size, a lot of people (and all who love rat dota) love Alliance
Bulldog was picked up to standin for Alliance by Dendi and has his thing with Sheever, Akke and Loda are veterans and have a bromance that eclipses Kelly's relationship with Loda., EGM has his stuff with Blitz and S4 just feels like a pretty cool guy and made a reputation as the son of Magnus.
All in all I think its vastly overrated how many haters they have.
Except the part where they kicked EE out of NTH and every EE fan hated Alliance.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On July 21 2014 11:22 opterown wrote:
fwiw hao has a higher GPM/XPM than sylar despite a much lower winrate (taking into account group stage too). that's with VG playing some very short games, which inflate PM stats too. interesting.
GPM/XPM is a terrible metric.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On July 21 2014 11:24 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:21 Kipsate wrote:
I think thats quite a small sample size, a lot of people (and all who love rat dota) love Alliance
Bulldog was picked up to standin for Alliance by Dendi and has his thing with Sheever, Akke and Loda are veterans and have a bromance that eclipses Kelly's relationship with Loda., EGM has his stuff with Blitz and S4 just feels like a pretty cool guy and made a reputation as the son of Magnus.
All in all I think its vastly overrated how many haters they have. Except the part where they kicked EE out of NTH and every EE fan hated Alliance.
Except EE didn't really have that many fans until he joined up with sing and all that at that point. By the time that Alliance were at TI all that had already died down.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On July 21 2014 11:24 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:21 Kipsate wrote:
I think thats quite a small sample size, a lot of people (and all who love rat dota) love Alliance
Bulldog was picked up to standin for Alliance by Dendi and has his thing with Sheever, Akke and Loda are veterans and have a bromance that eclipses Kelly's relationship with Loda., EGM has his stuff with Blitz and S4 just feels like a pretty cool guy and made a reputation as the son of Magnus.
All in all I think its vastly overrated how many haters they have. Except the part where they kicked EE out of NTH and every EE fan hated Alliance.
Except for EE who still cheered for [A] in the end.
It's like people never saw kicks and shit in dota history.
On July 21 2014 11:22 opterown wrote:
fwiw hao has a higher GPM/XPM than sylar despite a much lower winrate (taking into account group stage too). that's with VG playing some very short games, which inflate PM stats too. interesting.
It's too random, imo, to judge players on GPM/XPM.
Even kda is better in general.
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On July 21 2014 11:21 Kipsate wrote:
I think thats quite a small sample size, a lot of people (and all who love rat dota) love Alliance
Bulldog was picked up to standin for Alliance by Dendi and has his thing with Sheever, Akke and Loda are veterans and have a bromance that eclipses Kelly's relationship with Loda., EGM has his stuff with Blitz and S4 just feels like a pretty cool guy and made a reputation as the son of Magnus.
All in all I think its vastly overrated how many haters they have.
But i get a lot of flak whenever i say i like alliance 
I really don't know. From my perspective it's really different in terms of hate when it comes to alliance. I mean people hate EG because of the arrogant vibe. I don't think anyone hates C9 at all rofl. And other teams are hated for variety of reasons but alliance is usually hated because people think they don't play fair and they shouldn't have won but the other team since they think winning fights is how dota should be won.
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On July 21 2014 11:25 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 11:24 bearbuddy wrote:On July 21 2014 11:21 Kipsate wrote:
I think thats quite a small sample size, a lot of people (and all who love rat dota) love Alliance
Bulldog was picked up to standin for Alliance by Dendi and has his thing with Sheever, Akke and Loda are veterans and have a bromance that eclipses Kelly's relationship with Loda., EGM has his stuff with Blitz and S4 just feels like a pretty cool guy and made a reputation as the son of Magnus.
All in all I think its vastly overrated how many haters they have. Except the part where they kicked EE out of NTH and every EE fan hated Alliance. Except for EE who still cheered for [A] in the end. It's like people never saw kicks and shit in dota history.
Yeah i don't really get the hate on alliance kicking EE-sama. Pretty sure everyone in dota 2 scene has helped kick someone from the team.
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EPT
