EPTUnless enemy team has a illusion/summons or 5-man pushing lineup, then max PtA and MoC first for sure.
[Guide] Jungle Legion Commander - Page 4
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
Unless enemy team has a illusion/summons or 5-man pushing lineup, then max PtA and MoC first for sure. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
Jungling sorta works depending on the situation, but more then likely you're severely weakening your safe lane which isn't a good idea in the current meta. Giving up a big lead to say a LD/Enchantress that is offlaning is really asking to lose. You may be farming big time in the jungle, but LD/Enchant or other 'core' offlaner is going to be shitting all over your safelane because of 1 support, and if your mid or offlane loses their lane, you pretty much autolose the game from that point. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
if the jungle LC is on your team, you can bet that most camps will be warded and he will rush brown boots dagon 5. if he is on the other team, your team will do nothing and the LC will snowball so hard b there's nothing wrong with a jungle LC in this meta IF you have self sufficient, strong laners that don't need no support | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
On March 05 2016 05:26 BluemoonSC wrote: I mean its easy to tell when this will happen. if the jungle LC is on your team, you can bet that most camps will be warded and he will rush brown boots dagon 5. if he is on the other team, your team will do nothing and the LC will snowball so hard b there's nothing wrong with a jungle LC in this meta IF you have self sufficient, strong laners that don't need no support Man in my experience in low pubs currently (3-4k) this just applies to everything and has nothing to do with legion commander. Picking self sufficient, strong laners that don't need no support is pretty much how you win. Single exception being spectre. I actually am totally in the camp of people who think jungle cores are good for winning pubs, the main problem is just that the game is not FUN for the solo support. Consequently its fairly rare that you will do it and actually have someone willing to solo support and do a good job at it and it often corrupts your team morale right from the start. For all peoples talk of it, defensive trilanes are fucking AWFUL in pubs (and aren't even that common in the pro scene right now!) Its not like you are giving up protection of your safelane in exchange for a jungler, you are giving up your roamer and/or the opportunity to dual offlane. That said there is some merit to in fact picking a jungler being better the stronger the enemies lanes are. If they have lanes that can't be pressured well anyways you give up very little by afk jungling in a pub assuming your mid/off don't feed. Obviously there is a balance but I actually think that if picking a jungler doesn't make you whole team tilt on you it almost always pays off in pubs because people are so bad at finishing games that the extra core usually kicks in. This is at sub 4k but tbh those are the only people who you write a guide for... | ||
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Cool Cat
United States1644 Posts
On February 28 2016 18:53 Birdie wrote: rofl how do you just say that 5k is top 1% easily, probably higher The problem is that any brainless player with mediocre mechanics can reach 5k mmr thanks to MMR inflation, and thus the vast majority of low 5k players are clueless about the basics of dota. Every 6k+ player hates queuing into games that are 5k average, and the difference in skill between 5k and 6k is just as massive as 5k vs 4k, etc. The fact that OP is low 5k and wrote a jungle LC guide further proves this. Sure 5k is probably the top 1% of the player base but that hardly means anything when 80% of dota players hardly ever play the game. There are 65 million dota owners on SteamSpy and 12 million active players in the last month. In reality, 5k players are far from remotely decent at the game among people who actually regularly play. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
EDIT: Your immediate discarding of jungle lc is really concerning and shows that you are not open to new ideas which probably slows down your improvement. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On March 07 2016 20:43 Cool Cat wrote: The problem is that any brainless player with mediocre mechanics can reach 5k mmr thanks to MMR inflation, and thus the vast majority of low 5k players are clueless about the basics of dota. Every 6k+ player hates queuing into games that are 5k average, and the difference in skill between 5k and 6k is just as massive as 5k vs 4k, etc. The fact that OP is low 5k and wrote a jungle LC guide further proves this. Sure 5k is probably the top 1% of the player base but that hardly means anything when 80% of dota players hardly ever play the game. There are 65 million dota owners on SteamSpy and 12 million active players in the last month. In reality, 5k players are far from remotely decent at the game among people who actually regularly play. 5k players are predominantly solid players at DotA, I don't get this idea where you think they are 'shit.' The vast majority of DotA 2 players are around 3k-3.5k | ||
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Cool Cat
United States1644 Posts
On March 07 2016 20:51 gaymon wrote: You are ignorant Cool Cat, if you go by that logic everybody but the arbitrarily "best" player is shit at dota. Dota is very complex and there is rarely a consensus on certain issues, even among top pros. EDIT: Your immediate discarding of jungle lc is really concerning and shows that you are not open to new ideas which probably slows down your improvement. What I said is that low 5k players are clueless about dota, not that everybody but the best player is so. Thank you for your deep analysis of my personality and armchair psychology. On March 08 2016 05:37 superstartran wrote: 5k players are predominantly solid players at DotA, I don't get this idea where you think they are 'shit.' The vast majority of DotA 2 players are around 3k-3.5k The benchmark of 5k MMR for being decent at dota originated from when MMR and the leaderboards was first released, where the bottom of the leaderboards was slightly above 5k MMR. At the time, low 5k MMR was good relative to most dota players. Since then MMR has inflated, but many people erroneously still use 5k MMR as a benchmark despite it having originally been used to describe a different MMR distribution. Watch any low 5k average game and you'll see how terrible most players are. They just sit around hitting creeps and hoping that they somehow magically win the game. They have decent mechanics but have no idea how to win games. | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On March 09 2016 00:41 Cool Cat wrote: What I said is that low 5k players are clueless about dota, not that everybody but the best player is so. Thank you for your deep analysis of my personality and armchair psychology. The benchmark of 5k MMR for being decent at dota originated from when MMR and the leaderboards was first released, where the bottom of the leaderboards was slightly above 5k MMR. At the time, low 5k MMR was good relative to most dota players. Since then MMR has inflated, but many people erroneously still use 5k MMR as a benchmark despite it having originally been used to describe a different MMR distribution. Watch any low 5k average game and you'll see how terrible most players are. They just sit around hitting creeps and hoping that they somehow magically win the game. They have decent mechanics but have no idea how to win games. And what are you, a 7k god? Don't make me laugh. 5k players are solid enough to know that there's more to be done then simply last hit and pray. Even if we account for inflation, 5k is still easily top 1% of the population. Your statement is akin to saying someone that was ranked B on ICCUP is absolute shit at SC:BW. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
I mean if you count anyone whos ever played a dota game ever the 99th percentile should be even lower, but it should be a fairly good estimate for active players im guessing. >5k according to same data is top 2%. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
The fact is that people who are bad at dota don't use sites like yasp, and especially don't display public MMRs on their profiles. 5k is going to be way less than 1% of the total playerbase, and probably less than 1% even by active games. I won't even start on how useless a phrase "decent at dota" is. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On March 07 2016 20:43 Cool Cat wrote: thus the vast majority of low 5k players are clueless about the basics of dota. So stupid it should be bannable | ||
Just_a_Moth
Canada1966 Posts
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
the whole dota population? the pool of day 1 5kers are like 6.7k+ now not gonna lie about that | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On March 10 2016 11:06 ChunderBoy wrote: it just matters who u are comparing the 5ks to.. the whole dota population? the pool of day 1 5kers are like 6.7k+ now not gonna lie about that Yeah but making blanket statements like 5k players just only know how to last hit and have no awareness is hilarious. If that's true, we maybe have like 3 decent players on this entire forum. | ||
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Leadblast
Chile3 Posts
- LC does not need Iron Talon to jungle, right now she's one of the best junglers in the game with just Stout + Quelling Blade. NEVER DO IRON TALON ON HER, it's a dead useless 500g item that doesn't do anything but to cut down the creep's life a bit earlier. Going Iron Talon delays your early Stout/Treads/Phase etc and it's basically a dead item as opposed to a bare Quelling Blade which can be extended into Battlefury (if you feel like it) or selling it earlier. - as explained earlier your choice for first items on a jungling LC should be QB + Stout + Salve/Tango (I prefer Salve myself since you can disengage the neutrals at will in most cases and the regen from Salve is just better, 400 HP nuff said) + Ward. With that ward (which you obviously plant near the rune access of whichever side you're jungling) you've basically secured your jungling from enemy ganks. Also, do not hesitate to rush a sentry for the likes of Riki/BH. it's best to invest in a sentry and still jungle relatively safe than trying to rush your boots of choice all the while getting frustrated by some invisible wanker soaking your XP and backstabbing you with impunity (if not killing you on the spot when you are in low HP). - my skill build of choice is PtA, MoC, MoC, Odds, Odds, Duel, max Odds first (maxed OO will actually come at level 8). You can't seriously flush down the toilet a nuke that does decent to good damage (depending on how many enemies you catch in the AOE) and gives her amazing MS. not only Odds is good in a teamfight, (and there's a big chance of you catching at least 2 heroes in the AOE in a teamfight, but you can catch more if with a good ally like Axe etc) it also enables LC to push/counterpush and flashfarm. Not taking Odds is one of the most stupid things you can do, no matter what the enemy lineup is. It's her only nuke and perhaps her only utility in a teamfight other than the disable from Duel. - next choice is Blink Dagger vs Shadowblade, and this choice basically decides whichever Boots are you farming. I know most people like Blink Dagger but I don't like it myself because this item (Blink Dagger) doesn't give you any damage or attack speed boost whatsoever and so you actually have to sit in the jungle for a LONGER time trying to farm an actual damage item like Armlet/Deso or whatever. This is why I think Shadowblade is better, also Shadowblade can extend into Silver Edge if you need it (most likely against PA, Spectre or any enemy hero with strong passives), most people think Shadowblade is easily countered by dust and it is, but keep in mind that Shadowblade/Silver Edge is used mostly to initiate, also you can use PtA to dispel their dust if they throw it before you went invisible. Because I prefer the Shadowblade path, I like to go Treads as the Shadowblade basically makes Phase redundant. - I don't like Blademail (and specially if rushed) on her either because she's not a tank. Sorry. Everyone tries to do Blademail on her and everytime I see them they all fail miserably (4 or 5 enemy heroes taking a percentage of the combined damage they dealt to her, while she's dead) because they all forget she's not a tank. To be an effective early Blademail user you need lots of HP to absorb the incoming damage first. She's a hard carry, and not a tank. Only do Blademail after getting a Satanic and/or a Heart. Play conservative and don't die if you don't have to. A Centaur, Bristleback or Axe (common Blademail users) can tank or even afford to die, but she can't. - good allies: I'm surprised that Axe and Winter Wyvern are not even mentioned. Also Huskar (he can 1v1 most enemies early on, with him by your side collecting early Duels will be a breeze) | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
arent u the idiot who got banned from playdota for being an obnoxious person | ||
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Leadblast
Chile3 Posts
seriously | ||
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