EPTOn February 28 2016 18:44 Cool Cat wrote:
alright opinion discarded
low 5k is basically 4k now
alright opinion discarded
low 5k is basically 4k now
rofl
how do you just say that
5k is top 1% easily, probably higher
[Guide] Jungle Legion Commander - Page 3
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
rofl how do you just say that 5k is top 1% easily, probably higher | ||
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
On February 28 2016 18:53 Birdie wrote: rofl how do you just say that 5k is top 1% easily, probably higher You realize he was baiting right? | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
No, I don't, even now. I've seen far too many people who genuinely believe 5k isn't impressive to know whether or not some random on the internet is baiting when he says that. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
then you have a jungler who ganks late. in either case, i don't really recognize either as entirely legit. picking legion or lifestealer to jungle is some of the most selfish things you can do at the start of the match. picking a support and being stingy with wards or pulling at the wrong times is also as bad. picking a mid hero or a safelane carry and playing lane poorly is also really bad. that's the whole notion of being a "picker" off of reading a guide. you read all this good shit and decide it sounds great and is easy to do. no it's not, there's always a tradeoff for you having a great time PvEing. it's like taking 2 hatcheries before pool while your teammates are pressuring off fast 1 base builds. there is no guarantee it works, and it's much more highly dependent on your teammates than you realize. you need to get something done, and you need to do it well. or, everyone could have just had a normal game (yourself included) and you could have hit regular item timings by playing particularly well in lane or by roaming. please read the disclaimer: don't do it unless you've got friends playing or you trust your teammates and they trust you. doing it only because you feel like it (or think it's good when it's not) just wastes everyone's time. | ||
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
I get the OPs point: his build is probably the best way to jungle legion if you must (instead of those fucking dumbasses who do shadow blade first) but really playing jungle legion is just taking a gigantic shit on your team particularly the solo support player. Overall, people who jungle legion deserve reports | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 28 2016 15:45 Birdie wrote: coL's running jungle Legion right now I'm sure jungle LC is legit but most pubs don't understand how to use jungle heroes effectively, it's more complex than other roles to understand how to take advantage of it and when to draft it. It seems like if it's legit it's legit when LC is your #2 but you're using the fact that she farms fast in the jungle to give farm on a 4/5 that has a major item timing that works well with LC. Like that game, from what I see in the recap, you have LD as the #1 then conservative farming picks mid and top (Puck and BM) with the idea that Beastmaster is going to end up as #4 with a major item early. Anyways I don't think there's much more to say on how terrible/sometimes not terrible jungle LC is other than maybe it'd be a good thing to add to the guide a note on when you pick it. Like if your team is playing a Puck Mid and Phoenix, BM or Tide offlane with a decent safelane a jungle LC is going to have a lot more room to actually work than if you have like an Ember mid, LD offlane, and a safelane core. But in a pub I still think you're really really banking on mid being ok on their own since there's no one to bail out the lane early and the enemy mid can easily just walk away with the game (that or you need to be really confident you can gank mid as LC). | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
like even if they kill ur lanes 2~3 times u still have an lc freefarming jungle and it's a waste of time and dangerous to follow around lc in the jungle | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On February 29 2016 10:47 Dead9 wrote: honestly in pubs it doesn't matter that much, as long as ur lanes aren't incredibly weak u can lc like even if they kill ur lanes 2~3 times u still have an lc freefarming jungle and it's a waste of time and dangerous to follow around lc in the jungle Correct. That's the reason why jungling cores work in pubs. Stop thinking of it from a theoretical or meta perspective, but from a pub perspective. Supports don't offer any protection to their mid at all (until after the mid cries after dying 2-3 times). No one is going to do a TP support. Pub mid/offlane are expected to be self reliant. You can get away with being greedy if your mid and safelane are capable laners. And about the notion of junglers being active early. That isn't true for pub enchant. You almost always do better just by hard ricing in jungle till you get like Midas Lance Agha, rather than try to play like artstyle with smoke ganks etc.I disagree with the notion, because you waste so much time trying to gank when your pub allies don't have the coordination or brain to setup those kills (pushing/double wave/controlling lane/baiting etc). This applies to normal roaming supports too. You might as well farm, and might as well do it on a hero that uses the farm well, such as a carry-ish jungler. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
However, the much bigger problem is when your jungler means your safelane (or mid, depending on what the other team focuses on) gets rekt. If you have the typical undying+1 or something in the offlane, that lane might just own your safelane now. The lack of a 2nd support can make it so that the +1 gets 30cs while your safelane farmer gets 10, when if you had a 2nd support it woulda been 30-10 the other way around. Thats the problem with junglers. 30-10 turning into 10-30 (and maybe kills too) is a double swing since it both means you have a core without farm and they also suddenly have an extra core with farm. No jungle farm can make up for a double swing like that. I cant emphasize on the double swing effect enough. I've heard that several times "yea sure my other cores might get less farm if I jungle, but I make up for it with my jungle farm". No you dont. Because you turning a potentially winning lane into a losing lane by jungling both means you get less and they get more. Thats a double effect. And you dont make that up in your jungle. The biggest thing to look out for when picking a jungler is to ask yourself "is my safelane fine with only carry + 1 supp?". If you have a particularly weak safelane (say spectre+something) or they have a particularly strong offlane (say undying+1) the answer to that is often "no", and you shouldnt pick a jungler. On a sidenote, heres a tip. I cant remember ever seeing anyone else than myself do it ever in pubs i think, but its super effective to just ward camps. You dont need to roam into the enemy jungle to fuck with an enemy LC. Just buy 2 sents + 2 ward, ward 3-4 important camps. Roam into jungle first 1-2min if you want too. Now you might have shared exp with her on her first 1-2 camps + she only has like half or less camps available until 3/4min into the game. Thats more than enough to fuck over her lvl 6 and blink timing completely. You dont need to run after her for 5min (which means you fuck yourself too, as I explained above). Those 350g on those double sets of wards you spend at the start will be the most worth 350g your team spent that game. And you dont even have to be there, you can fuck with their safelane too while the LC tries to get farm in a jungle without camps. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
@Duck- I think the fault in the assumption is that you're not counting the people making the complaints themselves. Like if I'm playing support, which I do quite a bit, then I know to keep an eye on mid to see if they're getting beat bad or if I'm playing enchant I know it's pretty easy even without tricks to grab a Satyr Banisher and make an almost sure thing gank. Or if I have a 2nd support camping safelane I know how I can go and do other things like control runes, and stack the jungle rather than camp a lane with a zoned offlaner. Besides I'd say most people I see playing someone like Enigma may not necessarily go for a gank 1-5, but from 6+ they know enough to stay out of the jungle and keep active on the map which I find way more useful than an LC coming out trying to gank for 2 minutes and then if the ganks don't work having to go back to the jungle and farm for another 5 or so minutes to get the next major item. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
Then you can compare with the ease of execution of just pewpewpewing with impetus as a farmed enchant. Or the ease of execution with having an additional jungle core. How hard is it to go in and right click or doom with lc/Ursa/lycan/doom etc. If they can get the same farm, I'd rather them be on these cores instead. I'm also not concerned with the later spliting of farm for a simple reason. Not every hero needs an am level of farm to function. Of course if your team is filled with am spec Medusa, it is a problem. Ursa lc etc can generally start fighting from blink onwards. Reiterating again since kreb also posted, the key is ensuring your safelane/mid do not get destroyed before you choose a jungler. Not feeding a hero that can disrupt you like bounty is a plus. Its always good to be playing with people that knows what they are doing. You can't say that's the case for many games though. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
the only similarities between chen, enigma, lc, ench is that they can all start in the jungle and both enigma and chen farm just as long as (if not longer than) lc so idk what ur comparison is there jungle warders are rare because it's not an effective strategy when u see the opposing team walk into ur jungle with a stack of wards start at the hard camp near offlane and ferry some sents when u have gold i can add a "when to pick lc" section but it's pretty flexible. even if u lose mid or safe as long as u have some sort of comeback mechanic (eg. ur lanes are killable) it's fine i'm not saying lc's always the pick (in fact there's often better options) but it's generally not very game-losing | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
Also, it's odd to pigeonhole engimas who go first item blink. If you're going to afk farm, you go first item mek and take the safelane tower. The benefit of LC is that it's a hard disable, and she counters hard counters rats and glass cannons really well. Most 4th positions would have trouble posing that large of a solo kill threat to an ember or OD. | ||
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beestron
Malaysia26 Posts
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
Picking jungle LC is outright suicide if spectre is picked into safe lane. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
spec doesn't mean ur lane autoloses and shes fine to play from behind anyway, esp if you make space midgame | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On March 02 2016 00:05 Dead9 wrote: its just an example of a global hero, i can change it to invoker or something. bountys actually way, way more questionable than spec as far as laning goes spec doesn't mean ur lane autoloses and shes fine to play from behind anyway, esp if you make space midgame Invoker would be a good choice I think over Spec. I get why Spec is useful, but the cooldown on haunt is so long that you can't always contribute with it. With Invoker you get both Sunstrike and, if the Invoker is there, spells like Meteor or EMP that can contribute to big damage during the duel. Heck even Forge Spirits will with melting strike. | ||
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Baozi
United States1191 Posts
I'd only max OO first now if I'm a midlaner and want to clear the wave to get runes, and only before 25 if my team desperately needs help with highground defense or I'm against ridiculous illusion heroes. Just my two cents. | ||
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