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On April 03 2013 04:33 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 04:18 Yurie wrote:On April 03 2013 01:14 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 03 2013 01:11 Yurie wrote:
QB is good on all non summoner junglers, luna, medusa, lifestealer, etc. Stout is good on all melee, only time you don't want it is if you are rushing something else and can manage without. really not the ranged ones unless you desperately need the tree cutting ability... Medusa gets 5.64 dmg from it on level 1. 225 cost + tree cutting. Pretty much worth it for a ranged jungling hero since tree cutting is the base of all the jungle strategies for ranged heroes. (Excluding summoners.) Why would you jungle with something else than enigma/chen/enchant/NP? Ok let's add bat to the list of ranged jungling heroes and he does not need qb. I can't think of any other who is not relying on gimmicky ancient farming like medusa & tinker, which is very easily countered. DS is also a good jungler & ursa can farm decently too but all other heroes are just way better in lane.
You can choke point jungle with veno wards as well. ES fissure block is even seen in pro games. Neither of these want a quelling though. Then there is doom, not sure about his items. Axe doesn't need it either.
As for why, bad picks in pubs. Occasionally you need to throw a hero into the jungle that isn't suited to it. On dire with a quelling blade luna can do decently well, the spawns needed won't be blocked since nobody expects jungling Luna.
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Tinker ancients is actually decently legit since its easy to get vision of anybody approaching and usually pretty easy to de-ward any blocking attempt. Plus he is really fast at clearing. Medusa is AWFUL at ancients plz never do this.
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On April 03 2013 04:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Tinker ancients is actually decently legit since its easy to get vision of anybody approaching and usually pretty easy to de-ward any blocking attempt. Plus he is really fast at clearing. Medusa is AWFUL at ancients plz never do this.
Haha yeah someone did this in one of my recent games. Medusa can't do anything early normally, so it wasn't too bad for the team, freed up a lane. She got a midas tho and no linkens, so she died a lot...still won 
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On April 02 2013 14:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 13:30 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 13:10 Ruscour wrote:
What heroes are well suited to soloing the safelane (either 1v1 or 1v2)? I can think of Lone Druid, maybe Weaver, Storm Spirit, any others? I think that it really depends more on who you are laning against than which hero you have. Obv all of the solo offlaners can. It is really not a "safe lane" while solo unless someone in the jungle is stacking and pulling for you. That's not really true. It's still "safe" by nature of the natural creep equilibrium being closer to your tower, making it harder for enemies to freeze the creep wave somewhere where you can't get experience, and making you safer from ganks.
Creep equilibrium near your tower would only exist if both sides last hit and denyed exactly the same, which will not happen in a 2v1 lane and is not a given even in 1v1 lanes. It is not something that you can depend on because it is so easily manipulated, which is why we usually run supports in the safe lane. The main point I was trying to make is that it is no where near as safe of a lane when you are solo. I also think that you are very suceptable to ganks solo safe lane even at your tower because they can set up behind you and tower dive from both sides, so being by your tower doesn't necessarily mean you are safe.
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On April 03 2013 08:27 theaxis12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 14:49 TheYango wrote:On April 02 2013 13:30 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 13:10 Ruscour wrote:
What heroes are well suited to soloing the safelane (either 1v1 or 1v2)? I can think of Lone Druid, maybe Weaver, Storm Spirit, any others? I think that it really depends more on who you are laning against than which hero you have. Obv all of the solo offlaners can. It is really not a "safe lane" while solo unless someone in the jungle is stacking and pulling for you. That's not really true. It's still "safe" by nature of the natural creep equilibrium being closer to your tower, making it harder for enemies to freeze the creep wave somewhere where you can't get experience, and making you safer from ganks. Creep equilibrium near your tower would only exist if both sides last hit and denyed exactly the same, which will not happen in a 2v1 lane and is not a given even in 1v1 lanes. It is not something that you can depend on because it is so easily manipulated, which is why we usually run supports in the safe lane. The main point I was trying to make is that it is no where near as safe of a lane when you are solo. I also think that you are very suceptable to ganks solo safe lane even at your tower because they can set up behind you and tower dive from both sides, so being by your tower doesn't necessarily mean you are safe.
It's pretty easy to maintain creep equilibrium wherever you want it by autoattacking your own creeps in between lasthits if you want, so it's completely dependable to keep the creeps near your own tower if you want. And if you accidentally bring it too close you can just tank a couple of hits. Keeping the creep balance where you want it is not a tricky skill to master.
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On April 03 2013 04:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Tinker ancients is actually decently legit since its easy to get vision of anybody approaching and usually pretty easy to de-ward any blocking attempt. Plus he is really fast at clearing. Medusa is AWFUL at ancients plz never do this.
i've been told that linkens is not that great on medusa. So I always go midas/treads/manta/butterfly/skadi
and i only jungle dusa.
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On April 03 2013 08:44 Cyx. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:27 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 14:49 TheYango wrote:On April 02 2013 13:30 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 13:10 Ruscour wrote:
What heroes are well suited to soloing the safelane (either 1v1 or 1v2)? I can think of Lone Druid, maybe Weaver, Storm Spirit, any others? I think that it really depends more on who you are laning against than which hero you have. Obv all of the solo offlaners can. It is really not a "safe lane" while solo unless someone in the jungle is stacking and pulling for you. That's not really true. It's still "safe" by nature of the natural creep equilibrium being closer to your tower, making it harder for enemies to freeze the creep wave somewhere where you can't get experience, and making you safer from ganks. Creep equilibrium near your tower would only exist if both sides last hit and denyed exactly the same, which will not happen in a 2v1 lane and is not a given even in 1v1 lanes. It is not something that you can depend on because it is so easily manipulated, which is why we usually run supports in the safe lane. The main point I was trying to make is that it is no where near as safe of a lane when you are solo. I also think that you are very suceptable to ganks solo safe lane even at your tower because they can set up behind you and tower dive from both sides, so being by your tower doesn't necessarily mean you are safe. It's pretty easy to maintain creep equilibrium wherever you want it by autoattacking your own creeps in between lasthits if you want, so it's completely dependable to keep the creeps near your own tower if you want. And if you accidentally bring it too close you can just tank a couple of hits. Keeping the creep balance where you want it is not a tricky skill to master.
1v1 that kind of control is possible (still not a given because they can do the same), but you simply cannot control a lane like a dedicated support in a duo lane if you are 1v2. Also they can just push into your tower, which will push the lane out in a couple of waves and without a pull there is no way to reset that.
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On April 03 2013 09:30 theaxis12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:44 Cyx. wrote:On April 03 2013 08:27 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 14:49 TheYango wrote:On April 02 2013 13:30 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 13:10 Ruscour wrote:
What heroes are well suited to soloing the safelane (either 1v1 or 1v2)? I can think of Lone Druid, maybe Weaver, Storm Spirit, any others? I think that it really depends more on who you are laning against than which hero you have. Obv all of the solo offlaners can. It is really not a "safe lane" while solo unless someone in the jungle is stacking and pulling for you. That's not really true. It's still "safe" by nature of the natural creep equilibrium being closer to your tower, making it harder for enemies to freeze the creep wave somewhere where you can't get experience, and making you safer from ganks. Creep equilibrium near your tower would only exist if both sides last hit and denyed exactly the same, which will not happen in a 2v1 lane and is not a given even in 1v1 lanes. It is not something that you can depend on because it is so easily manipulated, which is why we usually run supports in the safe lane. The main point I was trying to make is that it is no where near as safe of a lane when you are solo. I also think that you are very suceptable to ganks solo safe lane even at your tower because they can set up behind you and tower dive from both sides, so being by your tower doesn't necessarily mean you are safe. It's pretty easy to maintain creep equilibrium wherever you want it by autoattacking your own creeps in between lasthits if you want, so it's completely dependable to keep the creeps near your own tower if you want. And if you accidentally bring it too close you can just tank a couple of hits. Keeping the creep balance where you want it is not a tricky skill to master. 1v1 that kind of control is possible (still not a given because they can do the same), but you simply cannot control a lane like a dedicated support in a duo lane if you are 1v2. Also they can just push into your tower, which will push the lane out in a couple of waves and without a pull there is no way to reset that.
True, but another thing to note is that even if you're pushed up to the tower, if you're solo safelane you're still not on their side of the river, meaning with decent wards you're still pretty difficult to gank as compared to being pushed up against the tower on the offlane. Also, they won't be able to stack and pull to control the wave, meaning you have inherently a lot more ability to control the wave - your autoattacks are still going to be pretty effective for lane control.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 03 2013 09:30 theaxis12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 08:44 Cyx. wrote:On April 03 2013 08:27 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 14:49 TheYango wrote:On April 02 2013 13:30 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 13:10 Ruscour wrote:
What heroes are well suited to soloing the safelane (either 1v1 or 1v2)? I can think of Lone Druid, maybe Weaver, Storm Spirit, any others? I think that it really depends more on who you are laning against than which hero you have. Obv all of the solo offlaners can. It is really not a "safe lane" while solo unless someone in the jungle is stacking and pulling for you. That's not really true. It's still "safe" by nature of the natural creep equilibrium being closer to your tower, making it harder for enemies to freeze the creep wave somewhere where you can't get experience, and making you safer from ganks. Creep equilibrium near your tower would only exist if both sides last hit and denyed exactly the same, which will not happen in a 2v1 lane and is not a given even in 1v1 lanes. It is not something that you can depend on because it is so easily manipulated, which is why we usually run supports in the safe lane. The main point I was trying to make is that it is no where near as safe of a lane when you are solo. I also think that you are very suceptable to ganks solo safe lane even at your tower because they can set up behind you and tower dive from both sides, so being by your tower doesn't necessarily mean you are safe. It's pretty easy to maintain creep equilibrium wherever you want it by autoattacking your own creeps in between lasthits if you want, so it's completely dependable to keep the creeps near your own tower if you want. And if you accidentally bring it too close you can just tank a couple of hits. Keeping the creep balance where you want it is not a tricky skill to master. 1v1 that kind of control is possible (still not a given because they can do the same), but you simply cannot control a lane like a dedicated support in a duo lane if you are 1v2. Also they can just push into your tower, which will push the lane out in a couple of waves and without a pull there is no way to reset that.
How often is it in pubs that 2v1 against you in the safe lane, the enemy duo will pull the lane equilibrium out far enough that you can't get XP, and then freeze it there when Lich isn't involved?
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On April 03 2013 13:22 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 09:30 theaxis12 wrote:On April 03 2013 08:44 Cyx. wrote:On April 03 2013 08:27 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 14:49 TheYango wrote:On April 02 2013 13:30 theaxis12 wrote:On April 02 2013 13:10 Ruscour wrote:
What heroes are well suited to soloing the safelane (either 1v1 or 1v2)? I can think of Lone Druid, maybe Weaver, Storm Spirit, any others? I think that it really depends more on who you are laning against than which hero you have. Obv all of the solo offlaners can. It is really not a "safe lane" while solo unless someone in the jungle is stacking and pulling for you. That's not really true. It's still "safe" by nature of the natural creep equilibrium being closer to your tower, making it harder for enemies to freeze the creep wave somewhere where you can't get experience, and making you safer from ganks. Creep equilibrium near your tower would only exist if both sides last hit and denyed exactly the same, which will not happen in a 2v1 lane and is not a given even in 1v1 lanes. It is not something that you can depend on because it is so easily manipulated, which is why we usually run supports in the safe lane. The main point I was trying to make is that it is no where near as safe of a lane when you are solo. I also think that you are very suceptable to ganks solo safe lane even at your tower because they can set up behind you and tower dive from both sides, so being by your tower doesn't necessarily mean you are safe. It's pretty easy to maintain creep equilibrium wherever you want it by autoattacking your own creeps in between lasthits if you want, so it's completely dependable to keep the creeps near your own tower if you want. And if you accidentally bring it too close you can just tank a couple of hits. Keeping the creep balance where you want it is not a tricky skill to master. 1v1 that kind of control is possible (still not a given because they can do the same), but you simply cannot control a lane like a dedicated support in a duo lane if you are 1v2. Also they can just push into your tower, which will push the lane out in a couple of waves and without a pull there is no way to reset that. How often is it in pubs that 2v1 against you in the safe lane, the enemy duo will pull the lane equilibrium out far enough that you can't get XP, and then freeze it there when Lich isn't involved?
Litch makes it easy but any support that is played well can manipulate the equilibrium, so I stand behind my assessment of solo safe lane not being safe. 1v2 it is marginally safer than solo offlane becasue the first few waves (i.e. levels) are safer, but then you also have to account for the multiple gank paths so gangs may even be scarier.
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What does it mean on Tiny's ult when it says "Cleave damage is reduced by armour type but not value" ?
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On April 04 2013 00:51 Cirn9 wrote:
What does it mean on Tiny's ult when it says "Cleave damage is reduced by armour type but not value" ?
There were "armor types" and "damage types" in wc3 that gave bonuses and penalties based on what damage type hit what armor type. Hero damage does 100% against MOST units, excepting seige creeps and a few other summons. The armor value (5 armor or w/e) is another multiplier.
Cleave ignores armor value (I could have 1000 armor and still take full cleave damage) but it does NOT ignore armor type (so you won't do full cleave damage to siege creeps, for example).
This is the same for all cleaves and is important when things like LD's Bear are granted cleave somehow because LD's bear does NOT do hero damage so it hits differently on some creeps I believe.
EDIT: this only applies to the cleave. The original target hit takes damage as he normally would if the cleave didn't exist. You don't cleave when you hit buildings.
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I had no idea there were armour types until I read that tooltip, thanks.
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On topic: What armor type does Spirit bear have?
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if cleave damage ignores armor values, does that mean that cleave damage will affect units under omnis ult? or does that provide some other form of invulnerability?
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On April 04 2013 03:53 PassiveAce wrote:
if cleave damage ignores armor values, does that mean that cleave damage will affect units under omnis ult? or does that provide some other form of invulnerability?
Dunno, I'm sure this arcane knowledge is available somewhere on the playdota forums but I'm too lazy to find it.
Yango might know.
The skill "flavour description" says invulnerability but then it only shows as adding armor so /shrug
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Omni added 1000 armor in Dota 1.
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Sometimes when attacking a tower it gains ridiculous regen and becomes a lot harder to kill. What causes that? If I had to guess, I would guess that it's a mechanic to prevent heroes like troll or pl from soloing a base while the entire enemy team is on the other side of the map.
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It is, it's backdoor protection. Pretty sure you can see a buff on the tower too when that happens.
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EPT
