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United States47024 Posts
On April 02 2013 13:30 theaxis12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 13:10 Ruscour wrote:
What heroes are well suited to soloing the safelane (either 1v1 or 1v2)? I can think of Lone Druid, maybe Weaver, Storm Spirit, any others? I think that it really depends more on who you are laning against than which hero you have. Obv all of the solo offlaners can. It is really not a "safe lane" while solo unless someone in the jungle is stacking and pulling for you.
That's not really true. It's still "safe" by nature of the natural creep equilibrium being closer to your tower, making it harder for enemies to freeze the creep wave somewhere where you can't get experience, and making you safer from ganks.
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On April 01 2013 17:30 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 16:42 Rodberd wrote:
for LD skills:
Q E Q E Q R Q E E (max W last)
(the bear gets entangle with the 3rd skillpoint, so you could go gank here)
items:
bear: phaseboots, veno-orb for early, later on maelstrom (or armlet, seems almost equal except aoe from maelsstrom), basher
LD: tranquils, the bigger stuff like AC i tend to leave it on LD.
also 2x midas can work.
one on bear and one on LD. just exchange when off CD so LD gets faster midas-charges AC really should be on the bear so he gets the attack speed from hyperstone, which is wasted if left on yourself since you should always avoid putting yourself in danger. 2x midas is a gimmick which should never be done in a serious game. And I'm also 90% sure that when you get double midas it is pointless to switch them around as the hero itself has a cooldown for using it. It is occasionally also worth getting a point of Rabid earlier before maxing Synergy for the ?12% movespeed.
Just wondering why you think 2x Midas is a gimmick? According to some people on playdota, 2x Midas is the obvious best build and noone should ever build anything else on LD; Playdota thread
I tried it myself once, and the way it works is that you can use the Midas twice, once on the hero once on the bear, but you only get gold when the bear uses it. You then transfer both to the bear for the increased attack speed. My biggest problem was remembering the cooldown and switching 1 item back and forth all the time which was really awkward.
Regardless, if not for double Midas, what else do you get? Because personally I hate Radiance rush on any hero ever.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 02 2013 16:16 Gotuso wrote:
Regardless, if not for double Midas, what else do you get? Because personally I hate Radiance rush on any hero ever.
That's the thing though, double Midas is even more useless than Radiance rush. For the cost of two Midases you could get a Relic, putting you only 1350 gold from a Radiance, and a Radiance farms way faster than double Midas because of how you can use the bear to split push/farm. And the Midases don't somehow make you more effective in combat because Midas in and of itself is not cost-efficient until you get to use it quite a few times to make back the gold.
What are you using 2 Midases for? To farm? Radiance farms faster. To fight/push? Well why are you getting Midases rather than Maelstrom or Armlet, which give more combat stats? Double Midas does nothing that some other build doesn't do better.
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wtf since when did yango become a mod? lol
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On April 02 2013 17:37 evilfatsh1t wrote:
wtf since when did yango become a mod? lol
holy shit
all hail yango
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one midas is good because it gets you levels really fast
a second midas is really questionable, it doesn't give you exp and bear already kills creeps really fast so it doesn't actually increase your farm by very much
radi is kind of situational now, but it's still a really good item on bear since it disables blinks and lets you split push and stack multiple camps
assuming freefarm usually bear wants to go something like midas > radi, mjol, armlet and/or hyperstone > vlads > basher, ac, crit, and/or mkb [force/ghost/bots/halberd]
of course this is very rough and there are a lot of viable builds
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On April 02 2013 17:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 16:16 Gotuso wrote:
Regardless, if not for double Midas, what else do you get? Because personally I hate Radiance rush on any hero ever. That's the thing though, double Midas is even more useless than Radiance rush. For the cost of two Midases you could get a Relic, putting you only 1350 gold from a Radiance, and a Radiance farms way faster than double Midas because of how you can use the bear to split push/farm. And the Midases don't somehow make you more effective in combat because Midas in and of itself is not cost-efficient until you get to use it quite a few times to make back the gold. What are you using 2 Midases for? To farm? Radiance farms faster. To fight/push? Well why are you getting Midases rather than Maelstrom or Armlet, which give more combat stats? Double Midas does nothing that some other build doesn't do better.
Well I can only talk about this from what I've red on playdota, but apparently LD is all about getting more attack speed on the bear. I assume for more Entangle procs. So in that sense Hand of Midas increases the bears attack speed while also giving you more farm. It might not farm as good as Radiance, but you can get double Hand of Midas before you get a Relic and even though they aren't the most cost effective in terms of attack speed per item slot, they do function as both.
In addition to that, 2x Midas deals more damage to towers and heroes then a Radiance would. Tradeoff being that you cant split push with 2x Midas.
That's roughly the idea that I red on playdota. Personally, I don't like double Midas nor Radiance rush. Maybe I should try 1 Midas into Radiance? The other alternative being a fast maelstrom + armlet of mordiggian?
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
A lot of greedy play can hinge upon Midas -> Armlet -> Maelstrom. Bear hits hard, bear hits fast. Give the bear phase boots at some point and he move fast as well. Midas is of course optional but the AS helps and LD with levels hurts (you want all the skills maxed as quickly as possible).
Just don't get twooo greedy with Midas now.
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On April 02 2013 18:32 Gotuso wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 17:28 TheYango wrote:On April 02 2013 16:16 Gotuso wrote:
Regardless, if not for double Midas, what else do you get? Because personally I hate Radiance rush on any hero ever. That's the thing though, double Midas is even more useless than Radiance rush. For the cost of two Midases you could get a Relic, putting you only 1350 gold from a Radiance, and a Radiance farms way faster than double Midas because of how you can use the bear to split push/farm. And the Midases don't somehow make you more effective in combat because Midas in and of itself is not cost-efficient until you get to use it quite a few times to make back the gold. What are you using 2 Midases for? To farm? Radiance farms faster. To fight/push? Well why are you getting Midases rather than Maelstrom or Armlet, which give more combat stats? Double Midas does nothing that some other build doesn't do better. Well I can only talk about this from what I've red on playdota, but apparently LD is all about getting more attack speed on the bear. I assume for more Entangle procs. So in that sense Hand of Midas increases the bears attack speed while also giving you more farm. It might not farm as good as Radiance, but you can get double Hand of Midas before you get a Relic and even though they aren't the most cost effective in terms of attack speed per item slot, they do function as both. In addition to that, 2x Midas deals more damage to towers and heroes then a Radiance would. Tradeoff being that you cant split push with 2x Midas. That's roughly the idea that I red on playdota. Personally, I don't like double Midas nor Radiance rush. Maybe I should try 1 Midas into Radiance? The other alternative being a fast maelstrom + armlet of mordiggian?
It pretty much boils down to hitting specific, strong timings. A bear with radiance before 20 minutes is something that nets you towers, a bear with two Midas gets you nothing. LD rarely outcarries other strong carries but has certain timeframes where no one can handle two rampaging tanky bears in a row.
In most cases abusing strong timings on him leads to better results than trying to fight a farmwar. Items like Radiance/Armlet/Maelstrom/AC give immediate strong benefits which can be translated into a push and either a won teamfight or free towers.
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when should a quelling blade and/or stout shield should be in your starting items?
i guess on mostly melee heros without a quick life reg as first "bigger" item? and stout shield?
or is that just for the "lower skilled" people to help them getting last hits easier? (so that would be for me  )
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On April 02 2013 20:28 WladimirUN wrote:when should a quelling blade and/or stout shield should be in your starting items? i guess on mostly melee heros without a quick life reg as first "bigger" item? and stout shield? or is that just for the "lower skilled" people to help them getting last hits easier? (so that would be for me )
From what I've seen, Quelling blade is mostly for newer players to help them last hit, but it still depends on your hero and matchup. The important factor if you're good at last hitting is not how low your damage is, but rather how low your damage is in relation to your opponents ability to deny. If your opponent will be able to deny you all day because he does better damage than you, and he's good enough to do so, you're going to have a terrible time.
Same with stout shield, but I'd say it's a far more common buy. It builds to a lot of good items, and will be useful for a ton of heroes who are forced to melee last hit in a lane with ranged opponents.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Stout shield should be gotten at the start of the game on all melee heroes unless you're supporting in some form or you're going bottle rushing in the middle lane.
Quelling blade should only be gotten at the very beginning if you have random gold and have difficulty last hitting. If you don't get one then get to the lane and have difficulty last hitting you can always buy one from the side shops. Also once you get a battlefury you should aim for a quelling blade to accelerate your farm even more unless you are pushed for item slots.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
If you random a melee carry, you can get both. Otherwise grab a stout shield.
Shield lets you trade melee hits in lane and mitigate enemy ranged damage. Try to learn to last hit without a QB. For specific heroes such as mohawk monk, you can get a QB even after the laning phase for BF farming.
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On April 02 2013 21:39 flamewheel wrote:
If you random a melee carry, you can get both. Otherwise grab a stout shield.
Shield lets you trade melee hits in lane and mitigate enemy ranged damage. Try to learn to last hit without a QB. For specific heroes such as mohawk monk, you can get a QB even after the laning phase for BF farming.
I hadn't heard that name for AM before...
Either way QB is a legit pickup on any hero that wants to disappear into the jungle for a few minutes (that farms with right-click). The end cost is ~115 gold and it can REALLY increase your clear speed (both from damage and from using it to cut down trees and improve your route through the jungle by multiple seconds).
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I enjoy getting a quelling blade on melee heroes whenever fighting a nature's prophet in addition to the above reasons.
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QB is good on all non summoner junglers, luna, medusa, lifestealer, etc. Stout is good on all melee, only time you don't want it is if you are rushing something else and can manage without.
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On April 03 2013 01:11 Yurie wrote:
QB is good on all non summoner junglers, luna, medusa, lifestealer, etc. Stout is good on all melee, only time you don't want it is if you are rushing something else and can manage without.
really not the ranged ones unless you desperately need the tree cutting ability...
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On April 03 2013 01:14 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 01:11 Yurie wrote:
QB is good on all non summoner junglers, luna, medusa, lifestealer, etc. Stout is good on all melee, only time you don't want it is if you are rushing something else and can manage without. really not the ranged ones unless you desperately need the tree cutting ability...
Medusa gets 5.64 dmg from it on level 1. 225 cost + tree cutting. Pretty much worth it for a ranged jungling hero since tree cutting is the base of all the jungle strategies for ranged heroes. (Excluding summoners.)
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Oh, you meant jungling level 1 with medusa and luna?
Only do that if you like losing.
PS: I'd assume the 5.64 dmg would be reduced by the split arrow reduction. I suppose so would everything else though.
Slippers are probably more efficient damage items considering the IAS they grant. Plus they build into wraith bands.
Actually lockified's dire top-rune medium-neutral farming strategy might work OK with medusa, but that still can't possibly be good. Just farm a lane, and if that isn't possible pick a real hero XD.
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On April 03 2013 04:18 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 01:14 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 03 2013 01:11 Yurie wrote:
QB is good on all non summoner junglers, luna, medusa, lifestealer, etc. Stout is good on all melee, only time you don't want it is if you are rushing something else and can manage without. really not the ranged ones unless you desperately need the tree cutting ability... Medusa gets 5.64 dmg from it on level 1. 225 cost + tree cutting. Pretty much worth it for a ranged jungling hero since tree cutting is the base of all the jungle strategies for ranged heroes. (Excluding summoners.)
Why would you jungle with something else than enigma/chen/enchant/NP? Ok let's add bat to the list of ranged jungling heroes and he does not need qb. I can't think of any other who is not relying on gimmicky ancient farming like medusa & tinker, which is very easily countered. DS is also a good jungler & ursa can farm decently too but all other heroes are just way better in lane.
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EPT
