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Ask yourself whether your hero can utilise the regen/secured runes. Regen applying to both the mana/hp regeneration aspect of bottle. Generally on heroes that have the ability to use spells to nuke down creep waves have good synergy with bottles because they can push out creep waves to secure the rune without missing much exp. E.g. Death Prophet, QoP, Shadowfiend, Storm etc.
However, you should also be wary of the opposing mid's items when assessing your bottle purchase timing. E.g. You're a relatively squishy mid, and up against a Pudge who has boots. You will most likely need a faster boots purchase or he'll just kill you.
Finally, think about how your current match-up is going and whether a bottle will help you suppress the opposing hero or recover from a disadvantaged position. E.g. Tiny vs Ranged heroes. Most ranged heroes are obviously going to out-cs and out harass a tiny. However, if you get a bottle, you can just bottle crow to counter harass and try to spam them out of lane/get cs.
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Don't hesitate to bottle crow.
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when im watching these pro games i see items dropped on the ground by the teams all around the map and the enemy team isn't destroying them... why are they being dropped in the first place and not being destroyed?
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On March 25 2013 10:11 theskillzdatklls wrote:
when im watching these pro games i see items dropped on the ground by the teams all around the map and the enemy team isn't destroying them... why are they being dropped in the first place and not being destroyed?
They rarely ever drop anything of value I assume. It's probably just branches or so that players drop to get that big item from the courier.
I sometimes do that when I play as well.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
They are usually branches, occasionally a gauntlet/slipper/mantle or even a stout shield but that's as high as it ever gets. If you calculate it, selling a branch gains you 27 gold, less than even 1 last hit. What that means is if you even as much as lose 1 last hit when clicking through the courier etc to sell the branch, you've come out with a net loss. Gauntlet/slipper/mantles = 1.5 last hits, stout shield = 2.5 last hits. They're not really worth that much. As for not killing them, it's because no one cares about them.
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On March 24 2013 23:50 shizaep wrote:
When I am mid, how to decide if I should get a bottle or not? If I don't get it, I feel like I'm at a disadvantage against someone who does but that 600 gold could go towards something else. I'm just looking for some general rules of thumb to when it is a "very good idea" for me to get a bottle mid and when it is more of a waste. Thanks.
IMO if you're a mid, you should get a bottle, almost no exceptions as it's never really a waste. The regen is invaluable for 1v1 laning, as is the ability to bottle runes.
You want to have a bottle before 2 minutes (because that's when the first rune spawns), but you don't want to go bottle right off the bat because the lack of stat items will hurt your last hitting and make it easier for your opponent do deny you. My general rule is going to lane with 1 set of tangos, 3 branches and 1 gauntlet, mantle or slippers depending on your hero's attribute (although sometimes you'll need a stout shield or something). If you last hit well this will allow you to buy a bottle and deliver it to yourself before 2 minutes so you can try and bottle the first rune.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
Lich, Invoker and Lion (if you go mana drain) don't need bottle. Most other typical mids do.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 25 2013 10:45 Firebolt145 wrote:
Lich, Invoker and Lion (if you go mana drain) don't need bottle. Most other typical mids do.
It's still good for Lion because of how good of a ganker he is with good runes (and even if you go Mana Drain, you still have to go home after an ult without Bottle because of how much the ult costs).
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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Would some heroes become too useless if true sight could see through illusions? Take PL for example. Pro teams can usually pull off a PL gank without trouble if they have dust, simply by seeing how they move. In pubs however, I feel like the amount of coordination needed to actually gank a PL is too much. If you could just throw your dust and illusions would turn blue, that would balance this hero quite good imo.
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how do you guys feel about getting a Battlefury as Kunkka? I got it relativly quick (phase stick bfury at 15) but I didn't feel as if it paid off. The mana/health regen was nice but that's no reason to get a bfury, and as far as damage/farming goes I feel like I could've gotten something better. Shadow Blade is the obvious item, I kinda regret not going that since no other hero on my team had stealth. Orchid sounds good in theory, attack+attack speed+mana...or just go straight to Daedelus?
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On March 25 2013 18:20 hooahah wrote:
how do you guys feel about getting a Battlefury as Kunkka? I got it relativly quick (phase stick bfury at 15) but I didn't feel as if it paid off. The mana/health regen was nice but that's no reason to get a bfury, and as far as damage/farming goes I feel like I could've gotten something better. Shadow Blade is the obvious item, I kinda regret not going that since no other hero on my team had stealth. Orchid sounds good in theory, attack+attack speed+mana...or just go straight to Daedelus?
I don't really see why you need bfury, tidebringer is enough for good farm
I've seen SingSing go Shadowblade > Daedalus on Kunkka, seems pretty stronk.
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Battlefury is meh.
I assume Shadowblade backstab damage still works with Tidebringer? Asking because of:
Fixed Shadow Blade interaction with Cleave and Critical Strike.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On March 25 2013 19:13 maru~ wrote:Battlefury is meh. I assume Shadowblade backstab damage still works with Tidebringer? Asking because of:
Works with Tidebringer but you can't crit backstab damage
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On March 25 2013 18:28 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 18:20 hooahah wrote:
how do you guys feel about getting a Battlefury as Kunkka? I got it relativly quick (phase stick bfury at 15) but I didn't feel as if it paid off. The mana/health regen was nice but that's no reason to get a bfury, and as far as damage/farming goes I feel like I could've gotten something better. Shadow Blade is the obvious item, I kinda regret not going that since no other hero on my team had stealth. Orchid sounds good in theory, attack+attack speed+mana...or just go straight to Daedelus? I don't really see why you need bfury, tidebringer is enough for good farm I've seen SingSing go Shadowblade > Daedalus on Kunkka, seems pretty stronk.
SB Daedalus into BKB is as "solid" as a build you get on a chancy hero like Piratelord. Or you could get two crits for that 43.75% crit chance.
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On March 24 2013 15:17 flamewheel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 21:52 Ryrmidon wrote:
Is there any general rule to knowing what damage items are most optimal on certain carries? For example choosing between Desolator, Daedulus, Mjollnir, Skull Basher, MKB, etc? I find some of them are intuitive, like prioritizing attack speed on Sniper, Druid, Faceless to proc headshot / entangle / bash more often, but is there a post anywhere of somebody calculating the cost effectiveness of certain items on some of the popular carries? For example if I wanna build Nature's prophet for damage, how do I know what the most cost effective damage item would be between Mjollnir, MKB, or Daedulus? Or is something like that impossible to do.
Also what's the most common way to lane / build lone druid right now? Is rushing radiance for the early damage and split push still viable? This is incredibly mathable, but subject to too many variables. Items are generally gotten less for raw damage and more for the effects or synergy with hero.
There are still times when you want to just get pure damage though. For example if I'm playing Bounty Hunter, how do I choose between MKB, Desolator or Skull Basher?
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On March 25 2013 22:20 Ryrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 15:17 flamewheel wrote:On March 23 2013 21:52 Ryrmidon wrote:
Is there any general rule to knowing what damage items are most optimal on certain carries? For example choosing between Desolator, Daedulus, Mjollnir, Skull Basher, MKB, etc? I find some of them are intuitive, like prioritizing attack speed on Sniper, Druid, Faceless to proc headshot / entangle / bash more often, but is there a post anywhere of somebody calculating the cost effectiveness of certain items on some of the popular carries? For example if I wanna build Nature's prophet for damage, how do I know what the most cost effective damage item would be between Mjollnir, MKB, or Daedulus? Or is something like that impossible to do.
Also what's the most common way to lane / build lone druid right now? Is rushing radiance for the early damage and split push still viable? This is incredibly mathable, but subject to too many variables. Items are generally gotten less for raw damage and more for the effects or synergy with hero. There are still times when you want to just get pure damage though. For example if I'm playing Bounty Hunter, how do I choose between MKB, Desolator or Skull Basher?
Get Basher if you want bash, get MKB if you want to bypass evasion, get Deso if you want -armor/pushing power.
You rarelly decide based on dps alone because most items have secondary effects to consider.
Rules of thumb: Daedalus and Mjollnir are very good in terms of DPS, MKB is almost always the best choice if enemies have evasion, and you generally want a balance of +dmg and +as.
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I recently gave Dazzle more attention, but im not sure if i understand how his ulti works.
So far (after reading DotaWiki and Liquipedia more than once) it seems like this:
i still have to aim the ulti at my team or the opponents to apply the buff on them.
after i hit them it doesnt matter where they go, even if they leave the aoe of my ulti.
is that right? because some days ago i heard some confusing statements about the ulti on a stream (not sure, might have been TobiWan's stream)
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On March 25 2013 22:20 Ryrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 15:17 flamewheel wrote:On March 23 2013 21:52 Ryrmidon wrote:
Is there any general rule to knowing what damage items are most optimal on certain carries? For example choosing between Desolator, Daedulus, Mjollnir, Skull Basher, MKB, etc? I find some of them are intuitive, like prioritizing attack speed on Sniper, Druid, Faceless to proc headshot / entangle / bash more often, but is there a post anywhere of somebody calculating the cost effectiveness of certain items on some of the popular carries? For example if I wanna build Nature's prophet for damage, how do I know what the most cost effective damage item would be between Mjollnir, MKB, or Daedulus? Or is something like that impossible to do.
Also what's the most common way to lane / build lone druid right now? Is rushing radiance for the early damage and split push still viable? This is incredibly mathable, but subject to too many variables. Items are generally gotten less for raw damage and more for the effects or synergy with hero. There are still times when you want to just get pure damage though. For example if I'm playing Bounty Hunter, how do I choose between MKB, Desolator or Skull Basher?
Generally as a bounty you won't want to get skullbasher unless you want to get abyssal due to your team not having disables or needing a disable through immunity. Otherwise I would say get Deso if you have other sources of physical damage on your team and mkb if you need to bypass evasion.
On March 25 2013 23:37 Rodberd wrote:
I recently gave Dazzle more attention, but im not sure if i understand how his ulti works.
So far (after reading DotaWiki and Liquipedia more than once) it seems like this:
i still have to aim the ulti at my team or the opponents to apply the buff on them.
after i hit them it doesnt matter where they go, even if they leave the aoe of my ulti.
is that right? because some days ago i heard some confusing statements about the ulti on a stream (not sure, might have been TobiWan's stream)
Just as a general rule, never ever ever ever ever ever listen to what TobiWan says about the game. There's a very high chance what he is saying is complete trash. How you understand it is correct. This point stands for basically anything a caster says, they are in a pressure situation and normally don't play the game as much as others so it's possible they get things wrong. That's why they normally have a co caster who is more knowledgeable than them.
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EPT
