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[Hero] Anti-Mage - Page 11

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
December 05 2011 05:35 GMT
#201
On December 02 2011 14:58 zeehar wrote:
flamewheel, what item do you suggest for becoming more tanky after getting the manta, because heart is a bit expensive? BKB?

BKB is a good choice. I honestly rarely get BKB on AM though, because I have the "I'm too noob to use active skills/items" complex. But actually, AM can easily tank stuns and stuff with Heart... you might want to consider just getting the Vitality booster first.

Also, more and more I favor building Battle Fury on Anti-Mage. It works wonders against enemy carries that build Manta Styles.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
zeehar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)3804 Posts
December 05 2011 14:32 GMT
#202
On December 05 2011 14:35 flamewheel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 14:58 zeehar wrote:
flamewheel, what item do you suggest for becoming more tanky after getting the manta, because heart is a bit expensive? BKB?

BKB is a good choice. I honestly rarely get BKB on AM though, because I have the "I'm too noob to use active skills/items" complex. But actually, AM can easily tank stuns and stuff with Heart... you might want to consider just getting the Vitality booster first.

Also, more and more I favor building Battle Fury on Anti-Mage. It works wonders against enemy carries that build Manta Styles.


haha.. i agree though, i forget/don't notice what item skills i have at times... even forgetting to use manta at times!

as per your suggestion in your OP i've skipped BF straight into manta when i haven't farmed particularly well/died a few times... but even so i should get BF regardless, especially if the enemy carry has a manta/uses illusions?
I AM THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT
Eti307
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
Canada3442 Posts
December 06 2011 02:32 GMT
#203
I just owned the shit out of a pub game with AM because of this guide.

this has my approval
CodeskyE
Profile Joined January 2011
United States777 Posts
June 27 2014 21:30 GMT
#204
let me revive this thread, and for a good reason.

i love antimage, but in solo queue, whether im doing really well or bad, my team ends up losing. i have started experimenting builds that doesnt get battlefury in order for me to help out earlier.

does anyone have any tips? i've been running vanguard yasha early-mid game items for antimage nowadays.
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
June 27 2014 21:52 GMT
#205
AM is a hard carry. Only pick him when you know your team can support you in the laning phase and create space for you early so you can farm by split pushing and get online faster. Don't pick him if your team has other greedy picks like afk junglers.

AM gets online faster than most hard carries, don't bother trying to go a vanguard or whatever unless your team is stomping so hard the game will be over before you come online.
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
June 27 2014 22:13 GMT
#206
Hes like the worst pub-carry ever.
sninja
Profile Joined July 2011
Poland207 Posts
June 27 2014 23:03 GMT
#207
with his 1.2 str gain he is like the worst carry in pub games at the moment. It can be said that he can blink and crap but he is utterly useless like all the time/
HighTimeDotA
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada1412 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-27 23:10:12
June 27 2014 23:09 GMT
#208
i would not go am if you want to fight early, go pa or void instead. battlefury is almost a must on am because the main advantage of being am is that he can blink farm and without bf you lose so much efficiency (even a late bf is very very helpful on am as it speeds up your farm tremendously). not a very pub friendly carry.

Picked it recently because my team needed a carry and i felt am does decent against the enemy lineup, had to 1v1 a mirana most of early game which delayed my bf (i missed a bunch of cs early on). my team was losing lanes and behind on kills but i just kept on farming. have to be patient with this hero and only fight when you have to.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/741918805

avg mmr only 5k with highest being 5.2k (mirana) my mmr too low trying to grind it up by picking heroes.
rtz is like the Bieber of dota, true Canadian treasure.
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-27 23:21:48
June 27 2014 23:19 GMT
#209
He's the best pub hard carry by far.
Battlefury is a must 99% of the times.
This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game.
If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
HighTimeDotA
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada1412 Posts
June 27 2014 23:22 GMT
#210
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote:
He's the best pub carry by far.
Battlefury is a must 99% of the times.
This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game.
If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.


beesa is an am god, if you have question ask him. i know i learned a lot from his tips/builds.
rtz is like the Bieber of dota, true Canadian treasure.
NeoRussia
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada381 Posts
June 28 2014 01:05 GMT
#211
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote:
He's the best pub hard carry by far.
Battlefury is a must 99% of the times.
This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game.
If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.


What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage:
- your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them
- your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything
- your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item

the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?
#BUFFEARTH
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
June 28 2014 01:51 GMT
#212
On June 28 2014 10:05 NeoRussia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote:
He's the best pub hard carry by far.
Battlefury is a must 99% of the times.
This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game.
If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.


What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage:
- your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them
- your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything
- your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item

the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?

last question: never imo, your hero already 6 slots faster than most carries do with midas and it delays your ability to actually be useful

the delay in battlefury delays your farm speed as much as the midas helps it, and antimage isn't too huge on needing levels, mostly just raw gold
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 02:51:10
June 28 2014 02:47 GMT
#213
On June 28 2014 10:05 NeoRussia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote:
He's the best pub hard carry by far.
Battlefury is a must 99% of the times.
This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game.
If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.


What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage:
- your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them
- your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything
- your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item

the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?


- You optimize everything, Min-Max stuff, spread your cleave dmg so that all the creeps die together on last hit. cut trees with quelling for shorter paths. try to sneak in a Rosh, cut enemy creepwaves, learn the fastest farming routes for AM.
Best way to help defend against 5man is trying to get lvl 11/16 and getting a rly good ulti off or blink-Mantaing a vunerable guy with a high manapool
sometimes u just have to commit to a split push rly hard and force panic tps from enemies.

- Impossible lanes are fine. If i get 1v3ed I try to get only the creeps that i cant get 100% without taking too much dmg or dying, occasionally hit ez camp if u can.

- last time someone bitched that AM is useless and refused to support me, (i prefer 1v1 lanes to 1v2 or 1v3). i got like 80cs at 10min and 1k gpm, the next game i got the same guy, he and his friend trilaned for me.

-midas is a good item if ure 1v3ing and can get like nothing and ur gold per sec or w.e little last hits u get will save up enough for midas. but you do this if ur team is also not losing their lanes

The biggest reason people lose is bcoz they arent efficient enough. AM is all about timings. get ur battlefury 1-2min too late and u have a much larger chance of losing,

if u have free farm 60cs at 10 isnt enough, 80 is acceptable, 90-100 is ideal.

if ure dire, when u get treads/quelling/stout push the lane autoattack the creeps. this will take off pressure from other lanes, and if noone tps this will give a tower, what is also gives u is a free hardcamp every 1 min, optimize ur blinks so u dont miss any lane creep while hardcamping. cut the right tree for hard camp so that u take less dmg bcoz 1-2 of the creeps have to round around it.

if ure radiant, try to get med+ez, try to stack enemy ancients by blink over there if they dont have acnients farming heroes.

the fastest farming route is hard/med/ez in radiant jungle + bot lane creeps + dire ancients, u also get to check the rune on this route.

if u want to take rosh, make sure u get ancients first, so that u can take them again after rosh is dead
if u have enough money, while roshing buy hyperstone/demonedge and sell it after 9 seconds. keep doing this. efficieny is key.

most AMs dont realise how much of a "skill based" spell blink is, they blink the wrong place to fight and die, they blink the wrong place to escape and die,

learn item builds/timings,
for me the usual build in a game thats going well is

Quelling/PMS/Treads/Battlefury/Vlads ~ 14-17min
+Manta ~ 20-22min
+Butterfly/Abyssal ~ 30min

Heart is not a core item, BKB is more core. But Heart also has its uses, there's a few games were rushing Heart before Manta is wayyy better. I even went as far as going Battlefury -> Vlads -> Heart -> Mjollnir in one game, they had like Bat/Engima with refreshers and the only way I could do damage was to take the frontline and tank their shit with Mjollnir buff.
Heart is also core against Doom, when you get doomed you have to stand your ground and fight back with it, reminder that AM spellshield ISNT disabled by doom. if you start running and dont stand ur ground u risk ur whole teams position, someone has to provide the front line or ur team will get run over.
Eblade/Ghost are really useful. Enemy has a fed Clinkz thats snowballing, an Invoker and a support Naga?
no problem Ghost will remove net, make coldsnap/forge useless, give you enough time for Orchid to run out.
Eblade later on can 2-shot with ulti Storms/Tinkers/ShadowShamans/etc...
Against QW invokers, get a magic stick, srsly.

you have to respect how fragile he is, learn his limits.
learn which heroes u can manfight and which u cant.
almost anything dies to blink-abyssal-manta-void at late game
you have to learn match ups like AM vs SD in early/mid/late game. dont blink in like a retard, buy a ghost scepter if u need it, it gives u a free blink against SDs. if he tries to disrupt u to harass, instead of blinking away, blink on him.
If TB reflects you, dont blink into trees just blink away for maximum distance towards safety.
etc...

i went as far as making an AM only, Solo queue / First pick AM only account to get it to level 13 and try to get as much rating as i can doing that but i got lazy after my internet died and i got an abandon while i was 12-1 with an aegis.

never ever be burning, dont build fury before treads/pms/quelling.
since the ti qualifiers, black has played the best AM.

the thing about AM isn't that he's bad, it's that there is absolutely no room for error. hes very based on narrow timing windows.

im bad at writing stuff. no im just lazy and dont bother with fixing the draft.
I might add more stuff with edit over time, and eventually this post might become a sort of guide.

edit: i just realised i havent even talked about skill builds/
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
NeoRussia
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada381 Posts
June 28 2014 04:14 GMT
#214
wow thanks a lot, all of this should be in a guide somewhere. Never thought to build heart before manta, eblade, or soloing roshan. By the way, when is it that you can attemp to solo roshan and with what items? I think I have the skill build figured out, spellshield against nukers in lane, more blink levels right before you get your battlefury, and not leveling mana break against shadow demon. Also, would you always try to not give rubick blink by using your ultimate on creeps?
#BUFFEARTH
CodeskyE
Profile Joined January 2011
United States777 Posts
June 28 2014 05:34 GMT
#215
On June 28 2014 11:47 ChunderBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 10:05 NeoRussia wrote:
On June 28 2014 08:19 ChunderBoy wrote:
He's the best pub hard carry by far.
Battlefury is a must 99% of the times.
This is probably the most 'general dota skill' hero in the game.
If you have any questions, I'll tell you why you suck at this hero.


What do you do in the following situations considering you already picked anti-mage:
- your team is getting wrecked by early 5 manning from the enemy, and your split-pushing is not enough to deter them
- your lane is impossible and telling your team to switch lanes or help out safe lane is not doing anything
- your team is bitching that your hero sucks and won't help you unless you have bkb as your first item

the above is the main reason I only have a 40% winrate with anti-mage. Also, when is it ok to build midas on anti-mage over getting a fast battlefury?


- You optimize everything, Min-Max stuff, spread your cleave dmg so that all the creeps die together on last hit. cut trees with quelling for shorter paths. try to sneak in a Rosh, cut enemy creepwaves, learn the fastest farming routes for AM.
Best way to help defend against 5man is trying to get lvl 11/16 and getting a rly good ulti off or blink-Mantaing a vunerable guy with a high manapool
sometimes u just have to commit to a split push rly hard and force panic tps from enemies.

- Impossible lanes are fine. If i get 1v3ed I try to get only the creeps that i cant get 100% without taking too much dmg or dying, occasionally hit ez camp if u can.

- last time someone bitched that AM is useless and refused to support me, (i prefer 1v1 lanes to 1v2 or 1v3). i got like 80cs at 10min and 1k gpm, the next game i got the same guy, he and his friend trilaned for me.

-midas is a good item if ure 1v3ing and can get like nothing and ur gold per sec or w.e little last hits u get will save up enough for midas. but you do this if ur team is also not losing their lanes

The biggest reason people lose is bcoz they arent efficient enough. AM is all about timings. get ur battlefury 1-2min too late and u have a much larger chance of losing,

if u have free farm 60cs at 10 isnt enough, 80 is acceptable, 90-100 is ideal.

if ure dire, when u get treads/quelling/stout push the lane autoattack the creeps. this will take off pressure from other lanes, and if noone tps this will give a tower, what is also gives u is a free hardcamp every 1 min, optimize ur blinks so u dont miss any lane creep while hardcamping. cut the right tree for hard camp so that u take less dmg bcoz 1-2 of the creeps have to round around it.

if ure radiant, try to get med+ez, try to stack enemy ancients by blink over there if they dont have acnients farming heroes.

the fastest farming route is hard/med/ez in radiant jungle + bot lane creeps + dire ancients, u also get to check the rune on this route.

if u want to take rosh, make sure u get ancients first, so that u can take them again after rosh is dead
if u have enough money, while roshing buy hyperstone/demonedge and sell it after 9 seconds. keep doing this. efficieny is key.

most AMs dont realise how much of a "skill based" spell blink is, they blink the wrong place to fight and die, they blink the wrong place to escape and die,

learn item builds/timings,
for me the usual build in a game thats going well is

Quelling/PMS/Treads/Battlefury/Vlads ~ 14-17min
+Manta ~ 20-22min
+Butterfly/Abyssal ~ 30min

Heart is not a core item, BKB is more core. But Heart also has its uses, there's a few games were rushing Heart before Manta is wayyy better. I even went as far as going Battlefury -> Vlads -> Heart -> Mjollnir in one game, they had like Bat/Engima with refreshers and the only way I could do damage was to take the frontline and tank their shit with Mjollnir buff.
Heart is also core against Doom, when you get doomed you have to stand your ground and fight back with it, reminder that AM spellshield ISNT disabled by doom. if you start running and dont stand ur ground u risk ur whole teams position, someone has to provide the front line or ur team will get run over.
Eblade/Ghost are really useful. Enemy has a fed Clinkz thats snowballing, an Invoker and a support Naga?
no problem Ghost will remove net, make coldsnap/forge useless, give you enough time for Orchid to run out.
Eblade later on can 2-shot with ulti Storms/Tinkers/ShadowShamans/etc...
Against QW invokers, get a magic stick, srsly.

you have to respect how fragile he is, learn his limits.
learn which heroes u can manfight and which u cant.
almost anything dies to blink-abyssal-manta-void at late game
you have to learn match ups like AM vs SD in early/mid/late game. dont blink in like a retard, buy a ghost scepter if u need it, it gives u a free blink against SDs. if he tries to disrupt u to harass, instead of blinking away, blink on him.
If TB reflects you, dont blink into trees just blink away for maximum distance towards safety.
etc...

i went as far as making an AM only, Solo queue / First pick AM only account to get it to level 13 and try to get as much rating as i can doing that but i got lazy after my internet died and i got an abandon while i was 12-1 with an aegis.

never ever be burning, dont build fury before treads/pms/quelling.
since the ti qualifiers, black has played the best AM.

the thing about AM isn't that he's bad, it's that there is absolutely no room for error. hes very based on narrow timing windows.

im bad at writing stuff. no im just lazy and dont bother with fixing the draft.
I might add more stuff with edit over time, and eventually this post might become a sort of guide.

edit: i just realised i havent even talked about skill builds/



thank you so much. ill be practicing antimage and aim for those timings.
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
June 28 2014 06:16 GMT
#216
On June 28 2014 13:14 NeoRussia wrote:
wow thanks a lot, all of this should be in a guide somewhere. Never thought to build heart before manta, eblade, or soloing roshan. By the way, when is it that you can attemp to solo roshan and with what items? I think I have the skill build figured out, spellshield against nukers in lane, more blink levels right before you get your battlefury, and not leveling mana break against shadow demon. Also, would you always try to not give rubick blink by using your ultimate on creeps?


usually vlads+fury+quelling+pms+treads is enough for rosh, might get hard if u get bashed multiple times, u can just go elsewhere lifesteal and come back anyway,

ive done ulting neutrals a few times when i see rubick coming to lane, at early levels only tho. it works 100% of the time no one expects to steal ulti from am, usually if they expect to steal blink they will not play it safe coz they assume theyll get away like np.

i have lots of different skill builds but dont feel like talking about it yet
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
LennX
Profile Joined October 2010
4562 Posts
June 28 2014 06:22 GMT
#217
On June 28 2014 13:14 NeoRussia wrote:
Also, would you always try to not give rubick blink by using your ultimate on creeps?


Because as an AM, you will almost always be blinking when its off cooldown so there is not much point in doing that.
Mute user function on TL; http://www.liquiddota.com/blogs/491245-mute-annoying-users-in-lr-threads
BlitzerSC
Profile Joined May 2011
Italy8800 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 08:17:43
June 28 2014 08:16 GMT
#218
How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?

edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush.
edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 08:57:28
June 28 2014 08:55 GMT
#219
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote:
How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?

edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush.
edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...

As for second: the only way i can think of is farming up small and hard/medium (dire/radiant) every single minute. And even then with perfect lane cs and farming up 3 neutrals a minute (each minute), it is still 113 lh by 10:30 O_o
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
BlitzerSC
Profile Joined May 2011
Italy8800 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 10:14:59
June 28 2014 10:07 GMT
#220
On June 28 2014 17:55 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 17:16 BlitzerSC wrote:
How do you deal with Riki counterpicks ?

edit: I think AM is one of the only "hard carries" that can work in pubs simply because he has a godlike splitpush.
edit2: How do you farm 100 creeps in 10 minutes lol...

As for second: the only way i can think of is farming up small and hard/medium (dire/radiant) every single minute. And even then with perfect lane cs and farming up 3 neutrals a minute (each minute), it is still 113 lh by 10:30 O_o


Ya lol, 200 creeps or more in 20 minutes sounds reasonable on AM, but 90/100 in 10 seems a little too much .

edit: Well, I guess that if you have a free lane, getting 90 creeps is not that hard, but unfortunately I never get free farm lanes in pubs T_T. Usually I get around 70 creeps when 2v1, which I think is fine.

The problem I have with AM is that around 40% of the time my team loses between the time where I get Bfury and Manta, I guess I should learn to splitpush better.
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