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On June 26 2015 08:27 Fencar wrote:Sometimes when I play this hero I invoke something and then try to cast it immediately and end up casting the thing that used to be in the spell slot instead. EX I have forged spirits (d) and cold snap (f) invoked, then press R with 3 exort invoked and immediately press D to cast sunstrike (with quickcast) and end up casting forged spirits instead.  This happen to anybody else?
I had never had this happen beffore until I read it here. Now I have had it happen at least once almost every game when I input too fast.
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So I just played a game where I went qw invoker, completely dominated the early game, got like a 12 min orchid after solo killing sf twice in lane and I was 18-3 at one point. My build was orchid>deso>daedalus (kinda trolly I know but I usually always go this build) My build was a really strong right click build and I cast my teamfight combos and just alacrity'd myself and wiped the floor in fights. But come 35 min their sven blinks in and just 3 shots me while my carry gyro has gone sb aghs and working on his mkb. I dieback and we straight up lost. In games like this where I cannot rely on my carry what is the build, or even style of invoker to play (is qe better to carry?)
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On June 30 2015 21:15 manicmessiah wrote:
So I just played a game where I went qw invoker, completely dominated the early game, got like a 12 min orchid after solo killing sf twice in lane and I was 18-3 at one point. My build was orchid>deso>daedalus (kinda trolly I know but I usually always go this build) My build was a really strong right click build and I cast my teamfight combos and just alacrity'd myself and wiped the floor in fights. But come 35 min their sven blinks in and just 3 shots me while my carry gyro has gone sb aghs and working on his mkb. I dieback and we straight up lost. In games like this where I cannot rely on my carry what is the build, or even style of invoker to play (is qe better to carry?)
Would be cool to have a littlebit more info, bc knowing what sven had, what your teammates did during the time sven killed you etc would be really nice.
I dont think that going pure right-click invoker is a bad choice in the case that your carry is retarded/underfarmed/both, but against blink sven you need some mobility/survivability if your team is a 1-core team by that point. Ghost scepter, euls, halbherd, (as long as he doesnt have bkb), forcestaff and hex all are good items vs sven. You have three good ccs inbuilt vs him, so as long as you get bkb first and dont stand in blink range (so he can blink->stormhammer before yo can react) you should be fine.
QE is a right-click build, much of your damage comes from the amplified alacrity. You have 0 cc though and tbh against heroes like sven or ursa you dont want to try to outburst them usually.
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AC, BKB, or sheepstick may have been a better pickup in that situation over daedalus. These items give you something new, whether it be immunity to stuns so you can always rightclick/run/cast/whatever, armor for you and your team and -armor for their team plus attack speed, or the strongest control item in the game.
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On June 30 2015 21:15 manicmessiah wrote:
So I just played a game where I went qw invoker, completely dominated the early game, got like a 12 min orchid after solo killing sf twice in lane and I was 18-3 at one point. My build was orchid>deso>daedalus (kinda trolly I know but I usually always go this build) My build was a really strong right click build and I cast my teamfight combos and just alacrity'd myself and wiped the floor in fights. But come 35 min their sven blinks in and just 3 shots me while my carry gyro has gone sb aghs and working on his mkb. I dieback and we straight up lost. In games like this where I cannot rely on my carry what is the build, or even style of invoker to play (is qe better to carry?)
if sven is the main threat you probably needed to stay back / have a force staff / ghost scepter / bkb (just for stuns) and make sure you, as the most dominant player on your team, was not going to be the one oneshotted by the sven
in general, any voker build has issues with bkb carries that can just destroy you while they have their bkb, you have to play around that and not die to it
but if you're playing a right click build (generally not advised if you have other right click carries on your team), you need to play like a hard carry who's deathly afraid of dying so that you can get your damage out after the enemy team blows all their spells and initiation
mobility items like force staff and blink are probably good for sniping heroes (with ghostwalk to get in or out) and getting out of danger but if they're playing as a 5 man blob you just need to stay away from it until bkbs wear out then tornado / emp / deafening blast
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On June 30 2015 21:15 manicmessiah wrote:
So I just played a game where I went qw invoker, completely dominated the early game, got like a 12 min orchid after solo killing sf twice in lane and I was 18-3 at one point. My build was orchid>deso>daedalus (kinda trolly I know but I usually always go this build) My build was a really strong right click build and I cast my teamfight combos and just alacrity'd myself and wiped the floor in fights. But come 35 min their sven blinks in and just 3 shots me while my carry gyro has gone sb aghs and working on his mkb. I dieback and we straight up lost. In games like this where I cannot rely on my carry what is the build, or even style of invoker to play (is qe better to carry?)
You decided to go for a glass cannon route, you jolly well play like one. You're suppose to be afraid of heroes jumping on you, so you should never be in the front line hitting, but either doing the clean up or sniping the back line heroes.
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My 6 slot during this game was Eul Sheep Travels BKB AC Shivas. Was that OK for this game? I feel like a RFO may have been stronger than either the AC or Shivas for the sake of double deafening blast lategame(10 seconds of no Sven/Alch attacking), but it's hard to tell. :\
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1643493120
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On July 19 2015 13:25 Fencar wrote:My 6 slot during this game was Eul Sheep Travels BKB AC Shivas. Was that OK for this game? I feel like a RFO may have been stronger than either the AC or Shivas for the sake of double deafening blast lategame(10 seconds of no Sven/Alch attacking), but it's hard to tell. :\ http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1643493120
I feel like a 6 slot invoker without blink is wrong. I also think Shivas is a waste of gold. I probably would have replaced Shivas and eul with rfo and blink.
Not sure if that would have helped though. The ember is way under farmed.
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With the way my item progression turned out, idk if I could have skipped Euls. I think it was pretty crucial for setups, but then maybe not. I could have sold it and bought a Blink, but at the same time I thought it was useful for holding people to setup a combo or just to disable them for a couple of seconds.
I agree with RFO instead of Shivas.
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against sven and alch shivas is not a waste of gold. It is probably one of the best items he could've gotten. 15 armor and a 45% aura AS debuff is huge. I don't see anything wrong with the build other than the euls at 1 hr. Refresher is obviously the best replacement for euls, 10s bkb, double blast, double meteor, double sheep, etc.
whether it is better than AC or shivas is arguable. Given everyone on the enemy team had BKB it's not out of the question that waiting for the opportunity to blast someone means half your team is already dead.
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Bump.
I noticed a well known player who mains this hero and he commented that phase boots is worth picking up on Exort Invokers right now because of the phase ability no longer being broken by spell casting. I know this would greatly help Wex builds but is there any legitimacy for the Exort Phase versus lineups you can't afford to be greedy against?
The discussion was a build designed to get 1-1-1 in QWE by level 3 and tornado Ember if he uses flameguard and procede into 4-1-4 by level 9.
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My right click qw invoker build that already has >80% winrate over previous 2 patches. A non-orchid build that focuses on own development instead of suppressing enemy's farm. Effectiveness of orchid will fall off at one point once you don't kill enough heroes.
Phase into bottle then midas and maelstrom. Bottle is a must have for non-orchid sustain. Nobody can contest runes against you due to tornado emp. Maelstrom is a damage steroid with attack speed of midas and wex orbs. Midas and maelstrom seems like "weak" items but the early game strength of qw invoker is so strong nobody wants to teamfight into you, so you make use of this timing to get ahead even more. Excellent split pusher with maelstrom that is incredibly hard to kill due to ghost walk and tornado.
Go whatever right click items that fit the situation, bkb, hex, mjolnir, ac, shiva, mkb, daedelus. Continue pumping quas after maxing wex. You want wex orbs on at all time for max dps when you have damage items equipped, thus there is no need for exort. Adding quas will add more hp and strengthen CCs spells. 6s cold snap, 1.75s aoe stun with 4s disarm rape every non-bkb heroes. Ghost walk for hex initiations and disengaging during enemies' bkb duration.
This hero is actually OP once you realize you can just run around at >450ms, right click people with 300 damage 3 times per second with alacrity on top of 5 CCs spells and innate windwalk ability.
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With the 6.86c nerf to invoker's early game, has how one should play him changed significantly?
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On January 20 2016 15:03 Aerisky wrote:
With the 6.86c nerf to invoker's early game, has how one should play him changed significantly?
QW skips exort early on now from what I've seen.
EQ often skips wex at lvl 2 in favour of the forge spirit but not every time.
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How many normal games, a decent invoker will advise I need to play before I go into ranked for I have 10 games with the hero and I want to get better at him?
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On January 21 2016 19:44 SatsuinoHado wrote:
How many normal games, a decent invoker will advise I need to play before I go into ranked for I have 10 games with the hero and I want to get better at him?
Depends on how high your MMR is in ranked and whether you just want to play a one build invoker or be able to adapt your build to your opponents' heroes.
I'd say 5 to 10 games if you want to start having fun with a full Exhort invoker, spamming the Eul Sunstrike Meteor combo.
20+ games if you want to be efficient with a teamplay build like Quas/Wex or Wex/Exhort
and 50 + games if you want to be able to adapt your build to the team your facing (this required more game in my opinion as you'll have to be aware of most spells and combos, eventhough the build you pick has you focused on a few ones during each game)
And regardless of all that, late game invoker requires 50+ games of practice at least, I'd say 100+ if you want to include refresher in the mix. It's just a very deep hero with lots of possibilities, several different skill builds, and pretty much as many different item builds as there are items in the game. And keep in mind not all games go to late game so you don't practice your late game invoker in every game.
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Agree/disagree?
Good Ice Wall usage is what separates a great Invoker player from a decent one.
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On January 21 2016 21:46 DucK- wrote:
Agree/disagree?
Good Ice Wall usage is what separates a great Invoker player from a decent one.
That  It's indeed the hardest spell to use correctly on the hero
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
dont u just throw it behind u when running away 
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That's one of the basic use for sure yes But there's so much more to it, slightly changing your hero's angle to slow someone ahead of you, using it to scout in trees, including it in several combos instead of Deaf Blast etc etc etc...
Truely a great spell but very hard to use
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EPT
