EPT[Hero] Lycan - Page 14
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KwarK
United States43352 Posts
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Rhyme
United States1069 Posts
On January 21 2014 05:07 ThrownChair wrote: It's 40% more -Armor than AC, but of course requires that you hit them. You make some good points... time to experiment some more. AC probably helps the team more.. and as you can see, I'm not reliant on BKB very much at all. Maybe Necro for Pushing or AC for fighting would be the best for my playstyle. i would never skip necro 3 on lycan | ||
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Lash-
Germany61 Posts
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HollowLord
United States3862 Posts
Edit: Here's a page of Lycan games I played following the Dog In Tree strategy. It really is nice to be able to end the game reliably around the 30 minute mark. http://dotabuff.com/players/50155406/matches?page=3 | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4553 Posts
http://dotabuff.com/players/122917966/matches?hero=lycan&game_mode&match_type=real Shame I lost that game last night, but the feeding was too bad to pull back. Kwark is god. | ||
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
10/10 would lycan again. I actually found that it's very difficult to get a roshan around the 10-12 min mark because at this point the opponent was extremely agressive and going in my jungle/ desmoking me etc. I settled for a slightly later one and it worked out quite well in the end. Bounty hunter is really annoying to deal with though. edit: 6 game winstreak now with some nice comeback yeah! | ||
CountChocula
Canada2068 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kzOV5Htr8Dc/S8X6sCuL9ZI/AAAAAAAAAGI/HNapvqCaDls/s1600/dog-hug-tree.jpg) | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4553 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
I think you nailed it for how to play the hero but I just think it's way too weak in the laning phase to be viable in any kind of competent game. I'm even lower ranked than you but I lose games all the time becuase we have an AFK jungler that gives away free farm to an important core lane. Then comes out of the jungle 2 levels lower than everyone else and with slightly less gold and tries to capitalize on mistakes. There's a good reason why pro teams always use junglers that either farm the jungle super effectively (like doom, chen, enigma) or can come out to lane at lvl 1-4 to create ganks (Enchantress, Chen, Enigma). | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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robaq
Poland186 Posts
On January 23 2014 03:32 StarBrift wrote: I think you nailed it for how to play the hero but I just think it's way too weak in the laning phase to be viable in any kind of competent game. I'm even lower ranked than you but I lose games all the time becuase we have an AFK jungler that gives away free farm to an important core lane. Then comes out of the jungle 2 levels lower than everyone else and with slightly less gold and tries to capitalize on mistakes. There's a good reason why pro teams always use junglers that either farm the jungle super effectively (like doom, chen, enigma) or can come out to lane at lvl 1-4 to create ganks (Enchantress, Chen, Enigma). I don't see how Lycan is a slow jungler by any means. Getting Vlads when playing safe is a matter of 8-9 minutes, and from this point you not only farm faster than all heroes mentioned above, but also become very useful for your team (you gain ability to push T1s real fast, become a counter gank threat AND you can do rosh). I'd rather have a jungle ricing Lycan in my game than an Enchantress who may get a tower and pull off a gank, but survives 2 seconds every teamfight. | ||
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Dr. ROCKZO
New Zealand396 Posts
Would that be possible? | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
On January 23 2014 05:29 robaq wrote: I don't see how Lycan is a slow jungler by any means. Getting Vlads when playing safe is a matter of 8-9 minutes, and from this point you not only farm faster than all heroes mentioned above, but also become very useful for your team (you gain ability to push T1s real fast, become a counter gank threat AND you can do rosh). I'd rather have a jungle ricing Lycan in my game than an Enchantress who may get a tower and pull off a gank, but survives 2 seconds every teamfight. My entire argument is based on the fact that during those 8 minutes you are leaving your team to play 4v5. Unless you have some seriously good lanes your team will lose the laning phase because of you. About the speed of the farming. Doom and Enigma are the two fastest farmers. A doom can get lvl 6 by 6 minutes if left alone to stack and he doesn't get unlucky (you need a wildwing big camp atleast one out of 5 spawns). Enigma can stack camps with eidolons and farms way faster than Lycan too. Also he is very good at popping out in lane for a gank. Even if the gank fails he can then start pushing the tower with some of the strongest early game pushing thanks to eidolons. Enchantress can smoke gank with 2 creeps (prefferably troll and centaur or double troll) at lvl 1. She can actually just come out of the jungle less than a minute after she entered it and have one of the strongest ganking abilities in the game. With a skilled player she is also one of the best / most flexible supports because she heals really well, can deal huge damage and pushes better than almost anyone. I absolutely agree with the statement that if you survive the early game a lycan is an easy hero to wreck frace with. I also understand the need to play such a hero in pubs because honestly random dudes in solo queue doesn't know shit about smoke ganking or lane control. Playing Enchantress in pubs is a nightmare. But so is any support. Like always the game result is 80% up to your team. As heroes where you don't rely on others go. Jungle Lycan is for sure one of the top picks. One of the few solo heroes that is not affected that much by the game flow. I wouldn't agree that Lycan is an especially good pusher though. He's great at split pushing but as soon as there are players in the lane the only thing he brings to a push is the vlads and the threat of a dive. This is assuming the opposing team has spammable magic aoe to clear up creeps / wolves. | ||
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Vikeif
126 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:11 Vikeif wrote: The moment the opponents are in your lane, you split push somewhere else; you do not stay where the enemy tempo is flowing. The purpose of this style is to constantly ruin enemy momentum down a lane by forcing them to defend what is being pushed on their side. If they decide to race, a 1v0 lycan will push faster than a 5v4 lane, all your team has to do is stay alive. As stated in the guide the opposing team has to expend a non-significant amount of manpower to stop lycan from pushing a lane, 1 tp and lycan will be able to eat the person coming in, 2 tps and the opposing team has a disadvantage in a team fight against the rest of your team and/or their pushing power significantly drops in the other lanes. That is just classic counter split push tactics. There are several other heroes that work the same way like antimage and furion etc. But there are numerous ways to stop split pushing. The 4v5 defense depends entirely on a good antipush lineup and a weak push lineup on the opposing team. If you're running something like a veno/Dk/enchantress you will push towers faster than a solo lycan ever could. Also there are chances to find pick offs on the Lycan with heroes like Puck, Storm, Nyx, Bat etc. You can smoke 3 people while showing 2 in others lanes and get Lycan down even with the ulti run speed and there is no chance to predict the smoke 100%. Once you picked the Lycan off you can take 1-2 towers free or a rosh or whatever you need. Split push is good and Lycan has tons of damage and creep wave clear speed with his wolves. But only low level players will get yoyo'ed around the map without knowing how to deal with it. Also trading towers is acceptable in certain situations. Like trading t2 top for a t2 mid or bot as dire. Mid and bot is way more important for buybacks into rosh fights. Top vs bot is a worthwhile trade if you're looking to take a contested rosh. But yes I agree. The fact that a lot of players don't know these anti push tactics make them panic and that makes Lycan even better against mid to low level players. I'm just saying that when you get a team that knows how to trade and take objectives effectively, he falls off quick. | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On January 19 2014 08:52 KwarK wrote: It's just so much better than normal solo queue dota. Laning issues early? Fuck you guys I'm dog in tree. Team feeding early? Fuck that, I get my farm elsewhere, brb roshing and highest level in game. Can't win teamfights? Fuck you guys, I'm split pushing. Teamfight went awfully? Fuck you guys, I'm max move speed. Got caught split pushing? Fuck those guys, I'm going home. It's not solo queue dota, it's single player dota :D On January 23 2014 07:55 Dr. ROCKZO wrote: KwarK, I'd really like to see a video demo of your jungle clears, all of your Lycan replays have expired so I can't see how it's done and I'm just struggling so much to pull off the camps in time. Would that be possible? You could probably search for his recent games through dota and find them that way. | ||
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KwarK
United States43352 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:55 Dr. ROCKZO wrote: KwarK, I'd really like to see a video demo of your jungle clears, all of your Lycan replays have expired so I can't see how it's done and I'm just struggling so much to pull off the camps in time. Would that be possible? I will make a newer replay in 2 weeks when my internet works again. I'm having huge ping issues stopping me playing dota atm. There aren't any recent replays of me unfortunately. | ||
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Dr. ROCKZO
New Zealand396 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:48 KwarK wrote: I will make a newer replay in 2 weeks when my internet works again. I'm having huge ping issues stopping me playing dota atm. There aren't any recent replays of me unfortunately. You could do a local lobby (0 ping), download the replay and upload its file somewhere, if you could be bothered going through all that effort. I'm not in any rush though. I hope your internet issues are resolved with haste, 2 weeks without dota must suck! | ||
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