I wish Liquid would've put up a better fight against Secret today instead of the games feeling like they were over before they even started. But they're playing without Miracle so it makes sense, I would've liked if they just defied the odds just a little bit.

Serinox

Germany5224 Posts

March 23 2018 19:26 GMT

#5582

Yeah, seeing how close Liquid v Secret usually is, I expected nothing going into the match today, and nothing is pretty much what we got. Oh well, if we get Newbee in the Loser's Final I don't think we'll make it, but against Fnatic it's possible, I guess.

midou

Bulgaria1168 Posts

March 23 2018 19:30 GMT

#5583

The level of VP, Liquid and Secret is so insanely high that any small setback(and a coach standin is not small at all) will result in a stomp most of the time.

Saechiis

Netherlands4989 Posts

March 23 2018 19:32 GMT

#5584

It's disrespectful to think Liquid could take on a top 3 team without the centerpiece of their strategies, a long retired stand-in coach and their 5 position playing carry. If anything it's a miracle they beat Fnatic.

Julmust

Sweden4867 Posts

March 23 2018 20:11 GMT

#5585

On March 24 2018 04:32 Saechiis wrote:
It's disrespectful to think Liquid could take on a top 3 team without the centerpiece of their strategies, a long retired stand-in coach and their 5 position playing carry. If anything it's a miracle they beat Fnatic.

Yeah I think most people see it as just one roster change, but it's really two with Kuro taking a step up.

Also Secret figured out that they need to ban AA. They've exposed us ;(

spudde123

4814 Posts

March 23 2018 20:24 GMT

#5586

Interestingly Secret was the first team in a while to let through Wisp. Liquid took it instantly, Secret responded similarly in both games, and Liquid couldn't get much going in lanes. Hard to play those games after the lanes don't go great. Even with a standin, it can easily be a completely different game with different drafts tomorrow. Though not quite sure how likely Liquid is to get past Newbee or Fnatic. The earlier Fnatic series was a bit weird with the very dubious g2 draft by Fnatic

its_a_me

Austria612 Posts

March 23 2018 20:46 GMT

#5587

Its more about Fnatic beeing a Envy team...they can beat everyone and lose to tier3 teams, i mean they lost against NaVi. xD

NInoff

Bulgaria1105 Posts

March 23 2018 21:27 GMT

#5588

On March 24 2018 05:24 spudde123 wrote:
Interestingly Secret was the first team in a while to let through Wisp. Liquid took it instantly, Secret responded similarly in both games, and Liquid couldn't get much going in lanes. Hard to play those games after the lanes don't go great. Even with a standin, it can easily be a completely different game with different drafts tomorrow. Though not quite sure how likely Liquid is to get past Newbee or Fnatic. The earlier Fnatic series was a bit weird with the very dubious g2 draft by Fnatic

Exactly just another draft issue. We would've lost to Secret anyways, but we got stomped because the drafts sucked. Again. And we tried the same game two. Gues what? It didn't work. I can accept anything but this stubborness of refusing to ban the shit opponent prepared for us. Or trying to beat it over a 5 min rethink between games. We got to show more respect to our opponents especially against VP and Secret.

Sphaero

Germany1697 Posts

March 23 2018 23:09 GMT

#5589

On March 24 2018 06:27 NInoff wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is not about stubborness or disrespect, but about lack of flexibility.

People really understimate the effect of Kuro not playing 5 in this formation does for the overall strength of the team and their drafts. He is most likely the most versatile hard support player on the planet with an incredibly deep hero pool (e.g. support player with the highest amount of unique heroes at TI7). Miracle is his counterpart as core.

When you have two players, who you can put on a large amount of heroes and get top class perfomances out of them, it increases the strategic range in the draft immensively.

Another point is that Liquid strategies often rely on greed of the cores and even 4 position, which can only be accomplished by having one player having no farm priority at all and sitting at the bottom in terms of net worth even when they are winning (the amount of farm on the map is limited after all). Kuro, who is ironically a core player at heart, also has the ability to have vital impact on the game with next to no items. Heen, who performs admirably btw, understandibly does not even close to that. He has one hero who reaches at least the ball park of Kuro´s skill level and that hero was banned.

People tend to reduce Kuro´s contribution to his captaining and shot calling, but forget that he is a world class player in his own right.

Quite honestly, Liquid even reaching top 3 with at most half strength is a success in itself and Secret would have to be quite worried if they did not crush Liquid in this tournament. These teams are after all incredibly close in overall ability at full strength.

NInoff

Bulgaria1105 Posts

March 24 2018 19:08 GMT

#5590

Now the bad plays. are a better way to go - it happens.

juuto

809 Posts

March 24 2018 21:20 GMT

#5591

I'm not even going to sugar coat it, replacing the best mid in the world with this no name core player was the biggest mistake! How could they replace the one and the only GOD of all core players with this guy Korokie? What has he accomplished in his lifetime to even be compared to the two time Major winning prodigy otherwise known as Miracle?

They also changed their position 5 player, I don't remember who he was, but I'm certain it wasn't this Heen guy. I mean, he was never that good especially compared to the one and only Amer "Miracle" Al-Barkawi, but I think he was decent enough.

LemOn

United Kingdom8629 Posts

March 24 2018 23:08 GMT

#5592

How can we win when your carry fails this much? Seriously I can barely even recall Miracle getting a kill yet alone having any significant impact...it's almost as if he wasn't even there... It's time for a change, Liquid'resolut1on confirmed